Guest User 4/10/21 Guest User 4/10/21

Q&A with Dotti and Sammy of Golden Wolf

We chatted with Dotti Sinnott and Sammy Moore of Golden Wolf: an Emmy-nominated animation studio founded in 2013 with offices in both London and New York.

Q&A with Dotti Sinnott and Sammy Moore
Read time: 15min

[SPEAKER]:

This call is being recorded.

Dotti Sinnot:

Oh.

Mack Garrison:

We’re super fancy.

Mack Garrison:

Haha. Well, Dotti, Sammy thank you both for agreeing to be interviewed for the dash bash. Maybe a good first place to start would be about how you two got involved with Golden Wolf, and a little run down on what led up to the New York office.

Dotti Sinnot:

Yeah. Well, I can take this one Sammy, but feel free to jump in.

Sammy and I met at Golden Wolf, I started a month after him. He was a designer in his trial period and I had come on as a freelance producer right after my move to London. I had gone there without a job or anything lined up, just a lot of people to contact. Golden Wolf was one of the first places that I had a meeting at and I wound up never leaving.

Dotti Sinnot:

At the time, the studio was in its early phases. Golden Wolf was first started as the motion arm of the design studio, ILOVEDUST. The core team members have been working together for over a decade, even though Golden Wolf has only been around since 2013. It's an interesting team dynamic in that you have these people who have been with the company for years, even before the company existed. Eventually, the two studios moved in different directions between the animation and design arms. The design studio was based in the south of England, the animation studio was in London. There was this cultural shift between the two cities they were in, and they ultimately decided to start Golden Wolf as its own thing so that we could grow into our personality and develop the studio with the creative vision of Erlingsson.

Dotti Sinnott:

When I started, there were around 15 people. We've slowly been growing since. The studio always had a huge client base in the US, I was regularly working with Nike and Disney on the west coast. We dealt with a lot of challenges with time zones. We knew there would eventually be a need for us to expand to the US, there had been plans thrown around that never stuck until we finally had an American on staff.

Mack Garrison:

There you go.

Dotti Sinnot:

Yeah, had that good passport. I was in London for two years and ultimately decided that I wanted to move back to New York. When I went to the office and told the guys I was moving, Ingy said, “well you don't have to leave the company. Why don't we try and start something in New York?” So, for the first year, Golden Wolf NY was three feet around me at any point in time. That was three years ago. Now we have five people in the New York office and are still expanding. We're still working closely with London. We tend to work as a one studio mentality and put the artists who’re most appropriate for a project on it regardless of location.

Mack Garrison:

That's so cool. That had to be kind of jarring to be like, “all right, I'm quitting my job, and all of a sudden, I'm going to run a studio in New York.”

*“Apple Icon” — Created by Golden Wolf.*

Dotti Sinnot:

It was not how I expected that conversation to go. I came out of it and I was like, “Did I quit or did I get a promotion? I think both.”

Mack Garrison:

That's great. Sammy, how about you? Were you part of that original crew?

Sammy Moore:

So, I wasn't part of that original inner circle, I'm almost six years in now at Golden Wolf. Before joining, I was in and out of the freelance design and illustration circuit after traveling and graduation. I lived in Australia for a while, and then figured I'd move back to have a go at a proper freelance career. It took me two to three months to realize it wasn't for me. I hated it, I didn't like working by myself. Once I realized that, it was obvious what I needed to do. I don't know how many people actually know this but I didn't know who Golden Wolf was before I applied.

Mack Garrison:

That's great.

“...the one thing that we don't want to change is the quality of work that we're doing...knowing that every piece that we put out the door is the best possible piece that we can do with the time and resources we have.”

Sammy Moore:

Yeah, it's mad. Don't tell Ingi I said that. I told him I was a big fan.

I was browsing Twitter looking for something and stumbled over the design studio that Dotti mentioned. They had retweeted a call for a full-time illustrator and designer at Golden Wolf. I looked them over and instantly fell in love. The work back then was incredible. It's even better now. I headed down for an interview on a Thursday and started on the next Monday. The rest is history, man. I was in the studio for a while as a designer, illustrator. After about a year, I started moving into the art direction, which I've been doing for several years now. Then, as Dotti said, we met on a terrible job. Remember that one, Dotti?

“the good stories come from the shit jobs.”

*“Workspace SL20” — Created by Golden Wolf.*

Dotti Sinnott:

Yeah.

Sammy Moore:

So bad, but we bonded over that pretty quickly.

Dotti Sinnott:

I think that both of us were pretending we knew what we were doing.

Mack Garrison:

What is it about the trenches that bring people together?

Sammy Moore:

The good stories come from the shit jobs. I knew that Dotti was heading off, then Ingy had a similar conversation with me. He asked if it was a big partaking for her to set things up alone. One thing that we're proud of is the effort and consideration we put into the studio culture. It's all about making sure that there's space for people to feel like they can contribute. For that reason, we wanted to ensure that when we set up in the States, we’d carry over the same ethos we had in the London studio. That’s what makes Golden Wolf so special; the attitude we take towards the work. Our CD was pretty confident that between Dotti and I, we’d be able to do that. We decided that Dotti would handle production and I would handle creative. Now we're here coming up on three years.

Mack Garrison:

That's wild. Having a set culture is important. Having people that you like to hang out with, that you feel close with. If you don't like working with the people you're there with, the work is going to suffer from it. How do y'all go about trying to maintain that same culture that you had in the London office? Do you feel like it is still pretty similar, or are there nuances with each office?

Sammy Moore:

I feel like the last six months have seen a significant shift in the culture. As Dotti said, she was by herself for a while. We brought on two junior designers, one left, and then I came over. It's hard to set up a culture when there are only three of you because we were slammed all the time, running around.

You need to have a few more bodies in the room, just to have a bit more opportunity to bounce off each other and share things. Now we're sitting at five, it feels so different. There are more conversations and ideas. With 4+, you can finally start to enforce culture. Enforce isn't the right word, you can start encouraging the kind of dynamics and attitudes we have in London.

Mack Garrison:

That's a great answer. I remember when we first started dash. It was Cory, myself, and then we had our one illustrator, Meg. Poor Meg. She was the first person to join our team. It was just Cory and I arguing about what we should do and then Meg also trying to figure it out on her own. You don't have any culture when it's new, you know?

Was there ever a directive on what to grow the studio into? Were you all thinking about where you wanted your office to go, to become, the size? Or, was it more natural than that?

Dotti Sinnott:

We've thought a lot about how we want to grow things and what feels right for us. I think the key for us, regardless of what the studio eventually winds up looking for, the one thing that we don't want to change is the quality of work that we're doing. It could look different, it could be in a completely different style, but the thing that we want to hold true is that quality bar; knowing that every piece that we put out the door is the best possible piece that we can do with the time and resources we have.

That's something that can evolve in a lot of different ways. So, I don't think we'll ever get to the point where we're a huge production hub just churning out pieces. We're always going to think carefully about the projects we take on, what they mean for us as a studio, and how they represent our capabilities.

“being in the trenches together is what connects you, and being asked to move out of your comfort zone is when you grow as coworkers and as people who need to rely on each other...those are the chances where it's more powerful for the people working together than just the work itself.”

Dotti Sinnott:

To your earlier question, we understand that, while we're creating a culture that is reflective of what is in London it's never going to be exactly the same. We're different people with different cultural backgrounds. One of the nice things about having come from London is that the studio is multicultural. There are people from all over Europe with many different languages being spoken in that office. In New York, we have the opportunity to have the same; everybody coming on from different places, having different perspectives. That culture of creating quality can hold true despite any of those differences. So, a big piece of it is that we will be different, but we're always going to be Golden Wolf because we're going to do the best that we possibly can.

Sammy Moore:

Yeah, I couldn’t agree more. That's well said.

Mack Garrison:

I'm sure a lot of other smaller shops feel the same way. I look at what you all are doing with Golden Wolf and I get jealous of the fact that you can be picky about the work that you take on.

Mack Garrison:

How did you guys found yourselves positioning Golden Wolf to get to the point where you could be more selective about the work you're taking on? Was that gradual with time, or can you equate it back to a specific project?

*“Good Luck on the 25th” — Created by Golden Wolf.*

Dotti Sinnott:

Starting, you're always going to take on jobs just to get one step further. We have done our fair share of projects that weren't what we would choose to do today, but they were the option that we had at the time. A lot of it was luck, we were positioned in a certain space in the industry. We had a point of view that people were interested in learning more about and getting more of. So, there was this great happenstance when we were ready to move forward at a time that the industry was also looking for someone like us. It’s hard to quantify why that happened. It just did, and we feel lucky that we're there now to enjoy that space. For a while, we were able to take on projects that were cool but weren't the biggest budget. Or, they were for a client that we were interested in working with but maybe not exactly the creative that we wanted to do. We’d take them on anyway, just to work with those clients.

Dotti Sinnott:

We’d do a lot of small projects, all at once. I would be producing 10 to 15 jobs at a time while we had another producer and our CD also running projects. Maybe it was the way production ran, the visual style we developed, or the client relationships. We acknowledged these for every job and tried to direct them to new requests coming through; what did we learn from the previous projects? Is this an opportunity to try and do things better than we did last time? We kept building on it.

“animation is not something done in a vacuum. it’s not done by one person. it takes a huge team.”

So they were stepping stones. After doing different types of work, we started seeing what fit and what didn't; what was worth the extra investment. Animation is not something done in a vacuum. It's not done by one person. It takes a huge team, and a big reason why Golden Wolf is so successful is that everyone on that team is willing to put in more than the 9 to 5. We all work extra hours, all of us put in more time and heart than you would at a job with a better work/life balance. But we do it because we care about making something really great, and that’s the piece of culture we think about when hiring; is this person someone who is going to get the work done and leave at the end of the day? Or, are they someone who is going to get the work done and then think about how they can do it better tomorrow? That's the person we want to hire, the team we want to build, and the projects we try to take on.

Mack Garrison:

I'm pumped. I feel like I just got a virtual pep talk. I'm going to hang up the phone to make some animation. Like, “oh, I'm doing it for Dotti. I'm going to kill it for Dotti.”

Sammy Moore:

Yeah, right on.

Dotti Sinnott:

That's what makes my job easy, the people that I work with. Sammy and I were both talking about how, over the weekend, we were thinking about a current project with a few bumps in the road. I fell asleep last night and it popped into my head as I was putting my head onto the pillow. That happens to us all the time. We live and breathe this work.

Mack Garrison:

I like the idea of bringing in people. It's hard these days, everyone gets caught up on social media. They see the best of everyone's lives being put forward. It's easy to get caught up with instant fame or putting your work out. I think there's going to be a lot of students at the dash bash who are looking for a career in motion, so let’s talk a little bit more about what you were just saying.

What do you look for when looking at someone coming out of school? What are you looking for in a portfolio? What advice would you give graduating students to get on Golden Wolf's radar?

Sammy Moore:

We've had a lot of conversations, since Commotion because we saw such great work. Variety is always good, but I think one of the things we’re keen to see is when people want to push the boundaries and try new things. It's a passion thing, for sure. It sounds a bit cliché, but the only way we're able to achieve the level of finish and consistently, to draw clients back, is because the work we do is such high quality and pushes the boundaries in exploration.

In terms of a more specific kind of skill you can see from looking at a portfolio...variety. We have some people come to us with portfolios where it's all very similar. To be honest, when I had my interview with our CD, he genuinely had a concern. My work was good but all very similar. Something we pride ourselves on at Golden Wolf that is super valuable is the ability to work in different styles and adapt to different briefs. You see some students who can get a little bit caught up in trying to establish a style or figure out what their aesthetic is. Honestly, if I look at a portfolio and it's got variety, I'm into it straight away. You see that a person can work in several different ways and they instantly become more valuable.

“sometimes you just need a little bit more time to figure out whether you're the type of person who wants to be a specialist doing the same thing or you want to be a generalist with a little taste of everything. and both opportunities are good.”

Mack Garrison:

That's a really good point. For a while, people have said you need to be a specialist. I know when we're looking for folks to come onboard at dash, particularly because we're a small office, there's a necessity for everyone to do a bit of everything. You might have an animator who is doing some pre-production one day and style frames another day. They may even come up with ideas for a script. It's all over the place. So, when interviewing folks, we look for more of a generalist. If you can be talented in a multitude of different things, it shows me you're willing to explore new stuff. If I want someone to hire us for a particular thing, maybe that's better for freelance potentially, but I don't know if it's best when trying to be full-time within a studio. Would you all agree with that?

Sammy Moore:

Yes.

Dotti Sinnott:

Yeah, especially for a small studio, it's helpful to have people who can do a little bit of everything. Even if they're not great at it all, the fact that they're willing to try says a lot for a team. Being in the trenches together is what connects you, and being asked to move out of your comfort zone is when you grow as coworkers and as people who need to rely on each other. So those times where you need to jump in and do something different are when you’re proving that you're there to help. Even if you can't do it perfectly, it's better than not having anybody to do it.

Those are the chances where it's more powerful for the people working together than just the work itself. Another thing that gets glossed over when you go to school events, sometimes you're not going to get the right job immediately after graduating. It may take a while to figure out what your path is, and that's okay. There are a lot of different ways to get from point A to B, it's not always a straight path. I went to school for English and French. I wound up working at an Apple store and then in HR. Now I'm the executive producer of an animation studio. How did that happen?

Dotti Sinnott:

All of those things building on each other gave me this experience and helped me grow. Even if I wasn't able to do exactly what I wanted right out of school, I used the opportunities to learn as much as I could where I was while trying to work towards the next thing. Sometimes you just need a little bit more time to figure out whether you're the type of person who wants to be a specialist doing the same thing or you want to be a generalist with a little taste of everything. And both opportunities are good.

Mack Garrison:

I love that.

Sammy Moore:

At Commotion, I could see the pressure that a lot of these kids were putting on themselves to launch out of school and get straight into a role to start building experience. When I first graduated, I worked at the Nike store selling basketball shoes for a year before I moved to Golden Wolf. While working at Nike - I'm a real fanboy - I started doing personal projects because I wanted to work with them as a freelancer. Those projects ended up being the stuff that stuck out to Golden Wolf because they were doing so much work with Nike at the time. Now I'm here.

There's no way I could have foreseen that happening. But all that time I spent selling sneakers was worth it, it gave my voice and my story a different trajectory when compared to anybody else's. Stumbling through and getting some experience is a lot more realistic and to be encouraged, rather than putting pressure on yourself to get that job at work or whatever. You've got to get out there and figure out what you want to do. There's no time cap on that. You've got to do it at your own pace.

*“What’s Your Style?” — Created by Golden Wolf.*

Mack Garrison:

There's so much pressure when you're coming out of school to get in the game quickly. But, taking time off, traveling a little bit, clearing your head, figuring out what you're into; I think that all pays huge dividends. Or in your case, living out in the middle of nowhere in Australia.

Dotti Sinnott:

Just don't ask him about the kangaroos.

Mack Garrison:

Well, I don't want to keep you all too long. I know we covered a lot and I asked all the questions. Aside from coming to hang out with your favorite friends in North Carolina, is there a teaser for what you guys might speak about or anything you're looking forward to touching on?

Dotti Sinnott:
Right now, we’re just making a list of things that we could start talking about, we figured over the summer we'd start to dig into it a little bit more. All that to say, we don't know where we're going to be in a few months.

*“Brown Skin” — Created by Golden Wolf.*

Mack Garrison:

The best thing about this festival is that it might be the first time anyone is allowed to go hang out with other people, which to me is just amazing that they would choose our conference to come to do that at.

Dotti Sinnott:

I'm excited to see how weird everyone is with other people when we finally get out of this.

Mack Garrison:

Just a bunch of socially-awkward folks. I mean animators and designers are kind of introverts already haha. I'm looking forward to hanging out with you all, assuming everything goes to plan.

Sammy Moore:

Sounds great, man.

Dotti Sinnott:

Yeah, it sounds awesome. Let us know if you need anything else from us.

Mack Garrison:

Absolutely. You know what I need Sammy? Dotti is going to kill me because I know she hasn't gotten any yet, but I still want some of that hot sauce you were promising me about from down in Savannah.

Sammy Moore:

There is a bottle in the fridge with your name on it, man. I promise.

Mack Garrison:

I love it. I'm stoked.

Sammy Moore:

You know what? I'm going to bring you two bottles.

Mack Garrison:

Two bottles? You animal. Cool, well thank you all for hanging. It's good to catch up again.

Sammy Moore:

Yeah, likewise.

Dottie Sinnott:

For sure!

Mack Garrison:

We'll talk soon.

Guest User 4/6/21 Guest User 4/6/21

Takeover Tuesday with Joey Judkins

Q&A with Joey Judkins: an animator and art director from Columbus, Ohio.

Q&A with Joey Judkins
Read time: 5min

Madison Caprara:

So, how did you get into your medium? Did it immediately click or take some exploration?

Joey Judkins:

It's hard to answer this only because it's hard to say what my "medium" is! I started drawing at a very early age, now I'm working in 2D and 3D on all kinds of projects. I'd say 3D definitely took some exploration and practice to learn, but after doing so much 2D character animation, I was happy to find that 3D character animation came relatively naturally to me once I knew the tools in C4D and Maya.

Madison Caprara:

Was there ever a point where you doubted your career path?

Joey Judkins:

All the time! When I was an illustration student in college, I wondered if it was a good idea to pursue illustration as a career. When I was a full-time caricature artist at a theme park, I wondered if it was a good idea to continue doing that, so I applied for a job as a video specialist which was a mix of motion design and videography at a church. After that, I doubted if being on a church staff forever was a good career move, so I took a staff job at a motion design studio.

I didn't really have a plan to leave any of those jobs until I had a healthy dose of doubt about them. Finally, after going freelance, I can say I've had less and less doubt about my career path. But the occasional fear that "this might not last forever" and "one day I won't have any work" still springs up. So I try to get through those fears by working on personal projects that excite me and challenge me creatively.

“the occasional fear that ‘this might not last forever’ and ‘one day I won't have any work’ still springs up. so I try to get through those fears by working on personal projects that excite me and challenge me creatively.”

Madison Caprara:

I see that you teach on the side, is that something you recommend doing for all creatives? What have been the most difficult and most rewarding aspects of teaching?

Joey Judkins:

I wouldn't necessarily recommend it for all creatives, I think there's something inside people who want to teach that compels them to do so. It's extremely rewarding when you know you've helped someone learn something, so that's the driving force behind wanting to teach. It's not a bad way to earn side income either, but it definitely takes a lot of work organizing your thoughts, feeling comfortable filming yourself and your process while, and then editing it down to something digestible for people to watch. Anyone who has tried to record themselves making tutorials understands that struggle.

Madison Caprara:

What have YOU learned about animation and what lessons have you incorporated into your work/life from teaching and working alongside your students?

Joey Judkins:

One thing I've learned from teaching is that everyone learns differently. Also, just because someone else may have a course similar to yours, that doesn't mean you shouldn't put your own voice out there and allow someone to learn from your unique style and approach. You always learn a little while you're teaching; it's almost like extra practice.

Madison Caprara:

Advice for those just beginning their journey: for or against the formal education route?

Joey Judkins:

This one is tough - I cannot say that someone wouldn’t benefit from a formal education in art or animation, because I'm speaking from the experience of someone who went to art school. I can say that in today's world, however, there are so many more avenues for learning online than there were when I went to school and that formal education has only gotten more and more expensive (but not necessarily better). Let's put it this way: If and when my daughter decides she wants to be an animator, I'm not going to let her go into massive debt to do it - I'll do my best to help her find an online solution. And when all is said and done, the best artists out there (whether self-taught, formally educated, or online) are going to succeed by putting in the work and being diligent.

Madison Caprara:

In the freelance game, there can be extended periods of downtime. What do you recommend doing to keep your skills sharp during these times?

Joey Judkins:

I always recommend having a running list of downtime projects; stuff you've wanted to learn, shots you want to work on to stretch your skills in one direction or another. One thing I'll say is that it's tempting to try to learn something based on fear (someone might not hire me if I don't learn X or Y), but I recommend learning something that aligns with your actual interests and what kind of work you want to do. Chase your desires, not your fears!

Madison Caprara:

What has been your favorite project, whether personal or paid? What about it really stuck with you?

Joey Judkins:

Another REALLY hard one! I'm going to say my Ultraboy animation (circa 2016) is one of my favorites because it represents so much about my artistic journey. When I first started, I knew no 3D whatsoever, but I had ideas for little stories and even video games. I came up with the character Ultraboy as a kind of homage to Megaman.

For a time, he existed only as a character design sketch in my sketchbook. I had ideas for ways he could use light and powers, and storyboards for fun little sequences to animate. The only problem is I had no idea how to actually do any of that. Over time, I learned 3D modeling, rigging, lighting, animation, and Octane rendering. The idea for Ultraboy came back to my mind, so I took a crack at it. Finally, what was in my head for so long was achievable thanks to new skills.

Madison Caprara:

Where do you go for inspiration?

Joey Judkins:

Honestly, I find a lot of inspiration on Pinterest, Behance, and (gasp) Dribbble! I remember people kind of flocking away from Dribbble a while ago, but it's still good for a quick idea or two.

“it's extremely rewarding when you know you've helped someone learn something, so that's the driving force behind wanting to teach.”

Madison Caprara:

How are you doing in this post-covid world? What are you doing now to achieve that necessary balance between work and sustainability in your life? How would you recommend fellow creatives go about prioritizing the work-life balance?

“the best artists out there…are going to succeed by putting in the work and being diligent.”

Joey Judkins:

I wouldn't necessarily call the world "post-Covid" yet, but I'm doing ok! I'm actually thankful I'm in a field where there is a large amount of flexibility on time and work situations. I can feel free to make my own schedule, pick up my kids from school, hang out at the house or at my own office when I need to. My wonderful wife does most of the work in order to allow me to have this kind of job though - she's a ninja without whom none of this would be possible.

If you're another creative and you are interested in having a family with kids, the biggest thing is figuring out a system and solid communication to divide and conquer work and life. If you don't have kids yet, you have the high ground in this industry, don't forget that. So it's up to you what you want to focus your life and attention on. It's hard to navigate how much "extra" time I should be putting into work - to learn, teach, make more money, whatever - while my children are here in my house, because eventually they will be grown, and I do not want to feel like I missed my chance to be a good dad to them.

Madison Caprara:

Do you have any closing advice, points, or statements you would like to share?

Joey Judkins:

If you're a freelancer, the best piece of advice I can give is to be a good communicator and always be reliable. Always do what you say you are going to do - it keeps your clients happy and keeps them coming back to you over and above your other skills.

“it's tempting to try to learn something based on fear…but I recommend learning something that aligns with your actual interests and what kind of work you want to do. chase your desires, not your fears!”

Guest User 3/31/21 Guest User 3/31/21

Celebrating WHM with the Women of Dash

As we wrap up Women’s History Month, we held a special Q&A session with the ladies of dash studio.

Q&A with Erin Bradley, Madison Caprara, Megan DeMarco, Meryn Hayes, Meg Snyder, and Eryn Hsu.
Read time: 20min

The Women of Dash, created by Meg Snyder.

Madison Caprara:

Hey guys!

All right, so I'll start off with the first question and everyone can chime in. How did you all end up at dash? What attracted you to the creative field in general?

Erin Bradley:

I'll go first. I was freelancing for a few years before I started and I was thinking about getting a staff position. I wanted a smaller studio that I felt cared about doing good work and about their employees. dash seemed just that.

Meg Snyder:

For me, I guess it's similar to a lot of other people in the field. I was always super into creative stuff; drawing, painting, and all that. Learning that you could actually make a career out of a passion and finding out all the different avenues and options there are to be in a creative field was really nice.

For me personally, it just felt more like a place where I could actually be myself compared to something like, I guess, a more corporate job. It felt the best fit and the most natural progression.

Madison Caprara:

Were you ever overwhelmed with the number of different routes you could delve into?

Meg Snyder:

I think maybe more so when I first started college because, in high school, I didn't really have a wide understanding of all the options. So I think getting into a space where there were so many all at once, was a bit overwhelming. But in the same way, it was also really fun to dive into each of those and get to explore things to find the right fit. So initially yes, but after getting into it, not really.

Madison Caprara:

Sweet. Yeah, and I don't know if anyone else wants to answer this question or if you'd like me to move on, but the next one pivots off of that. Was there any fear in making the decision to pursue a full-time career within the creative industry?

Meryn Hayes:

I think a little bit. My background is actually in photography. That's what I went to school for. And towards my, I don't know, junior, senior year, when everyone was trying to figure out their lives, I realized that everyone was going to pick up and move to New York City and become a freelance photographer. I was like, “I don't know about that.”

So, I ended up in this middle ground of, I love to be involved with creative, but I also have more of a type-A personality of scheduling, organization, operations. So I found my way into the advertising and marketing agency world. It's the perfect balance for me because I feel I'm involved in the creative, but I'm not actually producing anything myself. I can put my type-A tendencies to good use.

Madison Caprara:

What about the rest of you guys? Was there ever any fear of backlash from family or friends when it came to deciding to pursue being a creative as a full-time career?

Meg Snyder:

It's funny, yeah, initially. My dad is an architect and for some reason, my parents thought that me going into a creative field would not work out for me, even though it was pretty clear that that's what I wanted to do since the time I was a kid. I think it was also just a matter of not knowing if there was anything in the area.

So going back to dash, when I first got out of school, I had no idea that there was a motion graphics community in the Triangle and I didn't really even know what motion graphics was. Just finding dash by accident through my boss was the way I got into it. But I assumed like Meryn, I was going to have to move across the country, probably to California or New York when I graduated. Luckily I didn't have to do that.

Madison Caprara:

Interesting. Because dash is pretty out there. Right? In terms of location, when it comes to the industry. I'm assuming, just from my research and speaking with you guys, most of the agencies or studios are on one of the coasts.

Meryn Hayes:

It definitely is when you think of advertising or agencies and studios. You're either thinking of New York City or LA. What I feel has happened in the last ten years, the next level cities like Chicago and some of the smaller hubs, Raleigh and Atlanta, they’re putting out the same quality of work as in LA and New York City. And obviously, we're all here at dash because we believe that too. You don't need to be in one of the two to do good work.

I think that's also shifting the client's mindset. Sometimes clients are really particular about only working with people that are close to them, maybe that's something that will continue to change given the whole remote situation. But clients are realizing that they can work with really quality people and studios in smaller markets, which can sometimes save them on the budget too. It's going to shift and continue to shift in the next few years for sure.

Madison Caprara:

Hopefully, yeah!

So I'm assuming that all of you went to a university to get a more formal, higher-level education. Looking back and seeing how it might have influenced and affected the work that you're getting into now, would you say that you're for or against pursuing that formal education route?

Erin Bradley:

I don't think it's totally necessary. Now, there are more schools that are offering motion graphics. SCAD's a big one that I feel was one of the only schools that really had a motion design program in the beginning.

I didn't go to art school. I studied television, so I didn't learn any of this until after. Everything I learned was online and self-taught. There's definitely a big community to learn. Several people do free tutorials and stuff like that, so I don't think it's necessary, but it also wouldn’t hurt. I still think it's a great option if you're able to and you can afford it, but there are other options.

Madison Caprara:

Do you think that a degree might be a stickler for some people or companies that are hiring?

“one of the great things about what we do is, you're bringing your own personal perspective into the work that you're doing.”

Erin Bradley:

I've met very few people when I freelance that even bothered to ask where I went to school. I don't even know if I sent a resume into dash. People just want to see your reel, they want to know if you can do the work. It's nice if you can say, “Oh yeah. I went to SCAD.”

Around here, I feel a lot of people went to SCAD and I know a ton of people came from LA. There's a great community there. CalArts in LA was the same, but I don't think people for the most part really care. If you can do the work that they're hiring for, you’re good.

Meryn Hayes:

Yes! And I was going to say, I don't know that I would have ended up where I am without going to school and having those experiences. But on the other hand, I could have very well found my way here eventually. What I think is really important - whether it's in school, your first few years out of school, or your first few years in the industry if you're not going to school - is just about applying yourself and working really hard.

With school, or at least my art school, it was pretty rigorous. You learn a lot in terms of how to create, but also some of the interpersonal skills; communication and critiquing. I think that's something that isn't very thought of if you're not going to school. How do you give feedback to someone? How do you take feedback? How do you communicate to a client when it's a delicate situation or you're not sure what they want?

Meryn Hayes:

Those are really important skills. If you don't have an education, they’re really important to learn and not let get lost. If you end up in an online school or watching tutorials, you'll learn how to do things and the applications, but not the interpersonal skills. I think that's just really important. So, if you can't get that through school, really focusing on that in your first few years as you're getting started.

Madison Caprara:

I 100% agree. Conversational skills are everything.

Getting away from the topic of education. How much do you think of your own individual personalities, beliefs, ideologies, interests do you put into your work? Does this differ when it comes to studio work and your personal projects?

Meg Snyder:

I can answer that. From my background, having pretty liberal or leftist political views, sometimes working on corporate projects can be a little bristly. We've had some big banking clients that make you put your guard up if you have certain ideologies that clash with those companies. In the end, you end up just putting that aside to do the work. Because you can make really good projects out of it.

In your personal work, you can definitely go off and do your own thing, but that's been an adjustment for me. I know one client, in particular, a few years ago, when we started with them, it was a little bit, “Oh okay, I'm putting ego and politics aside.”

Madison Caprara:

And have there been any projects or clients in the history of dash that it was just a flat-out ‘no,’ because it clashed too much with the ideologies that we have here.

“you can have an all-white team trying to create a story about characters of color and you're not going to get half of it right…you need creators of color and you need more female and trans-queer producers.”

Meg Snyder:

I remember one.

Meryn Hayes:

Yeah. Yeah. I can think of a few.

Madison Caprara:

How do you usually handle those types of situations?

Meryn Hayes:

Well, I don't know that we would say, ‘we don't want to work with you cause you're a fascist,’ it's about taking each situation as it comes and delicately walking that line. In terms of the projects that maybe you can't feel passionate about working on - a bank or another tech video - I think there has to be some kind of separation from it. So, you don't believe in the subject matter, but what can you do to further a style that you've wanted to work on? So that you can still feel something towards it, some passion because otherwise, that's just a really easy way to get down and burnt out.

Madison Caprara:

Going from the projects that you're not so excited about, what projects stick with you that were some of the best? Some of the ones that you were most proud of?

Erin Bradley:

Well, I know I haven't obviously been here as long but one that sticks out to me was around when I started last year. It was a piece we did for Pride. I liked it a lot because we all contributed to that in some way. It was a big collaborative effort. I know I did some designing and that's not my background and I got a lot of input from Megan for stuff.

By collaborating like that, we're able to learn from each other while working on things together. And it was more of a personal project for us if I remember correctly. Stuff like that's really cool when we have time to work on them.

Meg Snyder:

Yeah. A lot of local projects feel better. So the one early on was for a design festival and all of the scenes involved downtown Raleigh. So you definitely feel a stronger connection to it versus something that's corporate and across the country.

Meryn Hayes:

I would say some of my favorite projects have come from the collaboration Erin was saying. Getting everybody in the studio on one project is a rarity and so really leaning into those opportunities when we have them. But then secondly, some of my favorites have been when we've been able to try a new style or something we've wanted to do for a long time. A few years ago we did this fully illustrated piece and that was one of the first times that we'd done something like that.

Also, we recently just completed a 3D character animation and that was the first time that we've been able to do something like that. It's pushing ourselves to try something we have never done before, but it's also getting wins with clients when we're able to push them outside of their own comfort zones into a style that they didn't realize they wanted or liked. I think those are some of my favorites.

Madison Caprara:

So you would say that the projects you work on are a constant kind of learning experience?

Meryn Hayes:

Well, I think it’s easy for studios, agencies, and freelancers to get into the groove of doing what they make best. That's great and really solid, but you can start to feel backed into a corner. When dash started, we were really good at making those vector, icon, MoGraph-y looking pieces. Especially in the tech field. That's a really easy go-to, and we realized that's all clients were coming to us for because that's what was on our website. How do we grow?

We had to take opportunities with pro bono pieces where the budget wasn't where we wanted it to be in order to put something out there that we were really, really proud of. Stuff that pushed us and our style. That'll help us get more work later down the line. So, it's a win-win because it pushed us outside of our creative confines, but it also helped us land more work in the long run.

Madison Caprara:

For sure.

I've been hearing a lot - not only on the MoGraph Lunch chats that Mack and Jay are starting but also just in general - the debate on generalism versus specialism; the pros and cons of each. Do you guys have any thoughts on that?

“if you hire the people you know and the people you know are only white men, then that's what you do…I’d rather take the time and look through ten extra reels to find someone who would be a good fit that also takes a little tap at that glass ceiling.”

Erin Bradley:

Like everything, there are pros and cons to anything. I think being a generalist these days is more attractive to clients because they want someone who can design AND animate. If you know a little bit of a lot of stuff, that's good, but at the same time, I'm thinking about Jess Herrera.

We needed someone who was, specifically, really good at texturing. So if you’re good at one specific thing, you'll usually get on some cool projects. I don't know if that really answered your question.

Madison Caprara:

No, that was great. I just like to get people's insight. Do you think it can be limiting to be a specialist?

Erin Bradley:

Yeah, totally. Especially if there's something you're good at that's going out of style, or people decide they really want to do 2D hand-drawn stuff and you're very motion graphics specter heavy or something. Then you are going to have to adjust as the industry changes.

Meryn Hayes:

In the past few years, I mean 3D has always been cool, but I just think in the past few years everything's turned to 3D. And so a lot of people are pivoting to that. It was kind of a rarity before, but if you pivot to working on 3D and something else comes along the lines, because it eventually will, and you're stuck in what you've gone all-in on, how do you survive that? It's always going to be about looking ahead and pivoting as things change because inevitably they will.

Also, I do think it depends on where you want to be. We talked about this a little bit on the MoGraph chat; if you want to be at a studio or a big production company, feature films, you're probably going to be brought in for one specific thing. But for us at dash, it's a lot more valuable to have someone who can do a lot because we're so small. We can have different projects come in every day that would pivot what people are working on or what could be good for them to work on, so having a team that can react to that is really important for us.

Meg Snyder:

Yes. Also, if you're someone who is more focused on the concept and preliminary art within a project, you can find yourself completely losing - not control over it - but your hand in it is has ended before you’ve really even started animating.

So if you're someone like me in my position, being more illustration-heavy or character concept-heavy, you don't end up working on things at the finished product. It's nice to become more generalized so you can actually do a little bit of animating, and maybe that involves becoming a Cel animator versus someone more motion graphics-heavy. It’s about being consistently involved in the process.

Madison Caprara:

That’s an interesting take. At some point, it’s almost like you lose ownership of your creations.

Let's see. I want to go into some of the Women's History Month-focused topics. So I'm steadily learning that women are a minority in this industry - much like almost every other industry. Was there a specific experience or point in time when you realized that cis- and trans- women were a minority within the field?

Erin Bradley:

As I said, I sort of self-taught online. I didn't actually know anybody in the field. One of the first resources I discovered was called Brograph. I think it was a YouTube channel or a blog or something. And I was like, “Oh, so that's what this is.” Besides that, the majority of the freelance work I did, I was the only woman motion designer. Sometimes even the only woman in the building or in the studio. So yeah. It became clear pretty quickly.

Meg Snyder:

I was the only woman at dash for about a year. I was the first hire, but also working with three other guys. So yeah.

Madison Caprara:

Wow.

Do you believe that the lack of women in the field has affected how female characters are portrayed? Anywhere from smaller productions à la dash, to larger productions on the Pixar and Disney front?

Meryn Hayes:

Oh yeah, for sure. I think one of the great things about what we do is, you're bringing your own personal perspective into the work that you're doing. So if you get a bunch of people that have the same perspective and the same point of view, you're going to get relatively the same output.

I definitely think that that's shifting and changing though. Not as quickly as we would all like, but there's been a larger push to make sure that there is diversity within large-scale productions and then smaller works too. So I think clients are more aware of that than they used to be. It's good for them to push that and for us to push it. So that everyone's thinking of it top of mind.

Madison Caprara:

How do you believe the industry can change for the better? Whether that be diversifying on the gender front, the racial front, or any other flaw that you perceive?

Megan DeMarco:

I think like all of those things that we had talked about previously, but something else would be more diversity in the storytelling. The kinds of stories that are being told. Specifically looking at movies, I feel there have been a lot of remakes. A lot of the same stories being told over and over. When you allow different stories and different perspectives, it's just a lot more interesting and easier to connect to.

A specific example of that would be City of Ghosts, which is a Netflix show that just came out. It's all about exploring the history of Los Angeles, but it's through the perspective of a group of kids. A totally different viewpoint. They go over a lot of topics that I don't really think would, not that they wouldn't be addressed, but I just haven't seen them presented that way before. So it was just really refreshing and interesting to see a different perspective like that.

Madison Caprara:

Yeah. I mean, I never really thought about it, but remakes are pretty en vogue right now. Think of all of the new live-action Disney movies that have come out recently.

Meg Snyder:

Piggybacking off of that, the types of creators too, and storytellers, because you can have an all-white team trying to create a story about characters of color and you're not going to get half of it right. So if you have a show like Craig of the Creek, which has a predominantly black main creative team telling this story of a middle-class black family, you're going to get very specific perspectives because the creators are represented in the work.

And I think that going forward, that's going to be a lot more important than an all-white team trying to populate as many people of color in a project as possible. That's not enough. You need creators of color and you need more female and trans-queer producers.

Erin Bradley:

Yeah. I totally agree with that. Go ahead Meryn.

Meryn Hayes:

I was just going to say another thing that I think is going to shift the industry is getting more women in leadership roles and minorities in leadership roles. We can push all we want and say we want equal pay, but that's not going to shift if those different representations aren’t in leadership and decision-making roles throughout the industry. I mean, that's one of the reasons why I ended up at dash. I wanted to be on the ground floor of a small studio. To be able to start making those decisions and pushing for change. So I think it's just getting those people into those positions, and that takes time.

There's the phrase, “you can't see yourself in a role if you don't see someone else there.” So if you don't have people in those roles to bring people up and mentor them, that becomes stagnant. That'll take time, but I hope that people are conscious of it. It's not just about hiring women, it's getting them embedded in the community so that they can start becoming decision-makers and leaders.

Erin Bradley:

I totally agree. That's what I was going to bring up as well. Especially in the early phases, I know Meg for example does a lot of the conceptual stuff and she's very good at being aware of diversifying things. So I think just making sure that's a key in the beginning and that happens more from producers or creative directors in the fields.

I know from my experience, the majority of the time someone like a producer would reach out to me, it was a woman producer and it was because they were specifically going on a woman directory of animation, just to make sure that more women were involved in their projects. And I feel that's just something that men, even though they might not know they're doing it, they're not actively looking for women. They're just going to hire some dude that they already know.

Meryn Hayes:

Yeah. There's definitely a ton of, whether it's purposeful or unbiased, conscious decision-making if you hire the people you know and the people you know are only white men, then that's what you do. It's the status quo. So maybe it would take longer to find a female artist but it’s important to do so. I'd rather take the time and look through ten extra reels to find someone who would be a good fit that also takes a little tap at that glass ceiling too.

Madison Caprara:

It's so crazy to me how these issues transcend every type of industry. I remember at one of my previous workplaces, most of the decision-makers were white, straight men. The few women were also straight and white. It could take an entire year to get a full-scale project together, and most of them revolved around topics discussing the LGBTQ+ and/or BIPOC communities.

Despite all of that time, nobody within the early conceptual stages would be a member of the community being spoken on. And then, a month before the project was supposed to go live, they’d come to us and be like, “Hey, take a quick, look over this.” I’m assuming to ensure nothing was going to insult anyone or be perceived in a negative light. But the point is, we should have been involved within the early and mid-stages. Not just as a checkmark of approval once you're done.

Meryn Hayes:

No, it's not just a checkbox, it's more than that. Just because you have someone involved in the community or in a project, that's not going to cut it. So getting people embedded into teams where they have decision-making power is just, I think, so huge. It's not just for show, it will change the way that we work if it's done correctly.

Madison Caprara:

I 100% agree.

Let's see. Going into more a positive sphere of conversation, what would you - whether in your personal or professional lives - what do you want to accomplish in the next five years?

Megan DeMarco:

For me personally, I feel I'm at the beginning of my whole career because I've only been with dash for a year, almost two years now I guess. But I feel like a little baby. So ultimately, just trying to learn more, become more well-rounded, and becoming a little less afraid to try different things and take risks. For me, that's a little bit of a barrier right now. So I guess ultimately just trying to learn as much as I can while being open to things.

Meryn Hayes:

I just think that it's the stars aligning, what we were talking about earlier with the smaller regions getting more attention, it really sets Dash up to be successful. I just think that we've pushed ourselves, especially with trying new stuff the past few years, and seeing all of that come together. I would hope in the next five years that we have become one in the Southeast, if you think of motion in the Southeast, you would think of dash. Just becoming more predominant in the industry and having things like the Dash Bash. Just centering the conversation of community and thinking of dash when you think of the motion community.

Meg Snyder:

Yeah. I think also, in terms of dash's work itself, I'd like to see us be able to do more purely creative projects that aren't really client specific. I know Cory's mentioned the possibility of doing animated shorts, reoccurring segments.

And personally, I think I would really to become a creative director. Not just scrapping responsibilities as an illustrator, continuing to do that, and getting better with cel animation. But also getting into creative direction. I think it's fun.

Madison Caprara:

Nice! I can see it.

What's a piece of advice that you have received that you've maybe labeled as the most helpful, or even the most heinous if you can think of anything in particular? And then pivoting off of that, is there any advice you would give to women just starting out in the industry?

Meg Snyder:

Right off-hand, as far as bad advice goes, I think anyone who encourages unpaid internships, they're definitely not looking out for your best interests. I know that advice usually comes from people who've been in the industry since the eighties. Maybe they came up in the seventies when things were very affordable on unemployment. That doesn't work now, so I think staying away from any sort of exposure-based rewards is just kind of nonsense.

Madison Caprara:

I had six internships throughout my college career and not one of them was paid. I was told that I was fussy because I made a big deal that I wasn't getting compensated for the work that I was doing. That it’s the sacrifice you have to make when you’re starting at the bottom. So yeah, that's great to hear.

Meryn Hayes:

Good for you. You be fussy!

I would say a piece of advice I have, and it sort of goes back to some of the conversations we were talking about earlier, but I don't feel we find mentors anymore. Something that was really helpful early on in my career, when I was at a previous agency, was finding a more senior account manager. She took me under her wing and I've learned a lot from her. I think that's something that, whether or not it's explicitly a mentor-mentee relationship or just someone that you look up to, having an outlet and being able to look up to somebody who's in a position that you want to be in and can help you work through how you want to get there. That's something that's really valuable that we lose these days.

Madison Caprara:

Yeah. We're at the end. Do you guys have any parting comments, statements, any shoutouts you want to end on? Anything that you want to get out there before we close this out?

Erin Bradley:

Something that really helped me was finding communities, whether it's in your area or online. Panamation is a big one. Just groups where you can find people, especially when you're first starting out. You're at a studio and there's not another woman there and you need people to talk to about that. It's really great for that and just networking in general.

Madison Caprara:

Cool. Good advice, Erin!

Anything else guys? All right. I think we're done. Thanks so much for the conversation!

Guest User 3/30/21 Guest User 3/30/21

Takeover Tuesday with Bárbara Nozari

Wrapping up our Women’s History Month's, Takeover Tuesday’s is Bárbara Nozari! Bárbara is a motion designer and character animator based in Brazil.

Q&A with Bárbara Nozari
Read time: 5min

Why did you choose your profession?

I don't have a specific answer to that. Motion design was something that piqued my interest, I soon realized I didn't want to do anything else.

How did you go about starting out?

I had studied advertising in college, I thought I would work as an art director in some advertising agency. At some point, I started as an intern at a web tv company. I did everything; graphic design, short scripts, filming, editing. After that internship, I got a job in broadcast television as a film editor while making some broadcast identity and animation packages on the side. My interest in animation grew and I started to study more (I was always a self-learner). From there, I started to nail some animation jobs and never stopped.

“(women’s history month) represents a month to remember that we women are very strong. that we’ve gotten more rights and equality through struggle. that this fight must not stop.”

What does Women’s History Month mean to you?

To me, it represents a month to remember that we women are very strong. That we’ve gotten more rights and equality through struggle. That this fight must not stop.

Why is it significant in 2021, particularly?

Even in the 21st century we still see a lot of gender inequality, violence against women, and cultural rights that benefit only men while punishing women.

What do you love most about what you do?

I love creating things. Being able to experiment with shapes, styles, colors, and ideas; to look at all that and smile is what makes me happy.

What would you change?

The industries of illustration, animation, and cinema have always been very masculine. I never knew the reason, but fortunately, this has begun to change. Today we can see a greater diversity of gender and ethnicity. If I could, I would change the fact that a creative’s sex, gender, ethnicity, etc. doesn't matter when landing a job, but the quality of work alone.

Tell me about a woman you look up to and why.

I admire my mother. She is a very wise, strong woman. As a child, she was poor but always struggled to work hard. She taught me right from wrong.

“I love creating things. being able to experiment with shapes, styles, colors, and ideas; to look at all that and smile is what makes me happy.”

What’s the best career (or life) advice you have received?

I never received any advice, but I always tell my eldest daughter that she should choose a profession or job that will make her happy. This is the most important thing for me.

Do you have any advice for young women first starting out in this industry?

For the girls who are just starting out, I tell them not to be afraid to hear “no” or to hear heavy criticism. Use this to better your work and always study, because nobody but yourself will teach you how to do things.

Do you currently prioritize your work-life balance? If so, how?

I try to prioritize having a balance. This makes me both work harder on the job and acknowledge happy moments when I'm with my family or doing a hobby.

I like to organize my schedules to always keep my commitments and activities at consistently set times. And when I have to work late, I always talk to my children so that they understand.

What barriers are women still facing in the industry? How do you think they can go about breaking them down?

We still see more men than women in animation studios and in advertising agencies. In order to change this scenario, we as women have to show ourselves more, publicize our work, expand our network, and refer other women whenever we can.

“…not to be afraid to hear ‘no’ or to hear heavy criticism. use this to better your work and always study, because nobody but yourself will teach you how to do things.”

Where do you go for inspiration?

Sometimes the inspiration comes from my children's games, or maybe from a landscape I saw. Mostly, it comes from normal things seen throughout my day.

Any closing points, advice, or statement you would like to share?

Don't be ashamed of who you are, where you come from, and what makes you happy.

“we still see more men than women in animation studios and in advertising agencies…we as women have to show ourselves more, publicize our work, expand our network, and refer other women whenever we can.”

Animation by Bárbara Nozari.

Guest User 3/23/21 Guest User 3/23/21

Takeover Tuesday with Caroline Le

Introducing this week’s Takeover Tuesday guest, Caroline Le. Caroline is a motion designer based in the greater NYC area with a passion for storytelling, problem-solving, and entertainment.

Q&A with Caroline Le
Read time: 5 min

Why did you choose your profession? How did you go about starting out?

I've wanted to be an animator ever since I was a little girl, I loved to draw growing up. Disney movies and the Sunday comics were always big sources of inspiration. Although, It wasn’t until I saw a visual effects breakdown from one of the Star Wars movies that I really got hooked. It was so cool and I knew from that moment on that I wanted to do something with animation and CGI.

What does Women’s History Month mean to you? Why is it personally significant in 2021, particularly?

Women’s History Month for me is a time for reflecting on how women have contributed to society both directly and indirectly over the years, and how they continue to do so today. Reflecting on the enormous amount that women have contributed encourages the confidence necessary to fuel continued change in our society. That in and of itself is really empowering. We’re witnessing some real change in 2021, and with more people aware, it’s an opportunity to put our strengths on display and to show the world what we’re capable of as women.

What do you love most about what you do? What would you change?

It may sound cliche, but I really do love the storytelling aspect of animation and motion graphics the most because it has the ability to ignite an emotional connection between the audience, the art, and the message itself. When you can make someone really feel something-excitement, nostalgia, happiness, hope–that’s when the true magic happens. Every project that I’ve been given the opportunity to be a part of has allowed me to create, dream, and problem-solve. Because of that, I honestly wouldn’t change a thing about what I do. It’s the perfect mixture of right-brain and left-brain thinking, and I enjoy it a lot.

“reflecting on the enormous amount that women have contributed encourages the confidence necessary to fuel continued change in our society. That in and of itself is really empowering.”

Tell me about a woman you look up to and why.

There are several women that I really admire, but the most inspirational woman in my life is definitely my mom. I’ve always admired her confidence and drive in her career, her compassion and loyalty when it comes to her relationships, and her generosity and optimistic attitude when it comes to her demeanor. She’s taught me to be a good listener, to always be kind, to be patient, and the importance of one’s relationships. I believe these life lessons have shaped who I am today. She’s also been a cheerleader in every endeavor that I’ve ever pursued, including wanting to be an animator, and I am forever grateful for that.

What’s the best career (or life) advice you have ever received?

The best piece of career advice I ever received was “don’t be afraid to ask questions” and it’s been useful in every aspect of my life.

Do you have any advice for young women first starting out in this industry?

Nurture your professional relationships. Get to know your teammates and managers, really pay attention in meetings with your team or with your clients. Step away from the computer and grab coffee or lunch with a coworker. Help out wherever you can. Hold on to anyone that you consider to be a mentor, and most importantly don’t be afraid to be yourself.

Do you currently prioritize your work-life balance? If so, how?

Absolutely! Especially working from home due to COVID. I do my best to not bring work outside of my office space, stick to solid business hours, and allow my mind to unwind at the end of the workday. This usually includes watching TV with my husband, playing the piano, or reading a book. I don’t typically work on the weekends, but if an emergency arises with a client project or if I have a passion project that has been sitting on the back burner for a while, I’ll put some time in so that everything stays on track. I also plan the week ahead for an hour or two on Sunday mornings so that I am aware of my biggest priorities to tackle Monday through Friday.

“continuing to show up, doing good work, and supporting one another are great ways to advocate for ourselves.”

What barriers are women still facing in the industry? How do you think they can go about breaking them down?

My observation would be that women may still not be taken as seriously as men in the industry, but continuing to show up, doing good work, and supporting one another are great ways to advocate for ourselves.

“I really do love the storytelling aspect of animation and motion graphics the most because it has the ability to ignite an emotional connection between the audience, the art, and the message itself.”

Where do you go for inspiration?

I typically go to sites like Vimeo, Pinterest, and Behance for inspiration. Lately, however, I’ve been pulling a lot from books that I’m currently reading or have read, and even personal experiences of my own. It’s a nice change of scenery.

Do you have any closing advice, points, or statements you would like to make?

There are so many talented and genuinely wonderful people in the animation and motion graphics industry. It’s been a real pleasure getting to know members of the community over the past few years and I look forward to connecting with and meeting even more amazing people in the months and years to come!

Guest User 3/16/21 Guest User 3/16/21

Takeover Tuesday with Jessica Herrera

This week for our Takeover Tuesday, we sat down with Jessica Herrera; a freelance 3D character artist based in Australia who swears that a Herrerasaurus is a real dinosaur.

Q&A with Jessica Herrera
Read time: 5 min

Why did you choose your profession? How did you go about starting out?

Well, to be honest, when I was younger I planned on being in the science field. I hated computers as I never understood them well, but I always loved drawing and the arts. With support from my family and teachers, I decided to try out digital technology. It was only in my second year at university that a friend recommended I enroll in a 3D class. I hated it. Barely scraped a passing grade. It was the first time I had done so badly in a course. That led me to learn on my own time using tutorials I could find online. This was great for me as I could do it all at my own pace. Though my 3D career started with passion projects, I slowly got recognized for my work professionally!

What do you love most about what you do? What would you change?

I love freelancing! I have had a lot more exciting challenges that I usually never would have gotten the chance to do when I was full-time. It’s empowering to be able to pick and choose what I work on. Basically, I’m doing my hobby as a career.

“I’m doing my hobby as a career.”

Tell me about a woman you look up to and why.

Is it corny to say, my mum? There are so many amazing women in the creative industry, but she’s the most influential woman to me. Though she may not have a creative career, my mum definitely has an eye for design. When they say your mum knows best, she really does! I can’t say she has directly influenced my creativity, but she has guided me to be a strong, independent woman who has worked hard to get where I am now!

What’s the best career (or life) advice you have ever received?

Don't compare yourself to everyone else. It's bad for your mental health and can sometimes hinder you from finding your own path in life. I know social media can make you feel as if you have to consistently post or make art a certain way, as it seems everyone prefers that. The algorithms definitely favor those who post more often, so just make what you like to make and not what you think everyone else likes to see. Not to discredit the amazing work people with large followings have made on socials. Just pointing out the algorithms nowadays are very cutthroat.

Do you have any advice for young women first starting out in this industry?

When I first started, I found it uncomfortable to voice my ideas or concerns in a project. I still can get a little shy, but over the years I have had more confidence. I think that can go for anyone who is inexperienced. With time, things get less daunting. It’s only human to sometimes be afraid to voice opinions to other people, but don't let anyone walk over you if you can't find the words in a workplace.

Do you currently prioritize your work-life balance? If so, how?

I do tend to spend a little TOO much time on my PC. On some jobs, when I am having fun, I can work overtime because time fly's by so fast. Despite that, I have a lot of hobbies outside of my PC, so they do a good job of keeping me away from the screen. Being freelance, I can have some time between jobs to do whatever it is I like.

“don't compare yourself to everyone else. It's bad for your mental health and can sometimes hinder you from finding your own path in life.”

What barriers are women still facing in the industry? How do you think they can go about breaking them down?

These barriers can vary from person to person. I know some that have had no troubles in their motion graphics career. On the other hand, I know others that get underpaid or walked over in the workplace. I myself have had some ups and downs. Some instances I fought against, some I didn't have the energy to do so. Some of these people don't realize what they have said or done as being sexist until you tell them. It’s a hard thing to bring up in the workplace. It also sucks that as a woman, we’re usually the ones who have to bring it up. If you are a man and see a woman feeling uncomfortable, please help them. Sometimes when being the victim, it can be hard to speak out.

The biggest barrier I personally have faced has been not getting paid the same as other men in the workplace. Knowing a male counterpart was being paid 20% more than I when doing the exact same job was heartbreaking. In this case, I was very vocal to my HR manager in the performance review process. It felt petty fighting to have the same pay as others, trying to prove my worth when they had given no negative feedback about my performance. Only then to be knocked back and punished for knowing what my coworker was being paid. My choice was to leave after failing to prove my worth, funnily enough, when I went to leave they gave me the raise I had asked for. Since going freelance, I have not had any problems. I state my rate and most studios and clients understand.

“knowing a male counterpart was being paid 20% more than I when doing the exact same job was heartbreaking.”

Where do you go for inspiration?

Everything can spark inspiration; whether it is an animation I watch, to the way my fish swims in the tank. Also, I am very active on social media platforms so I see a lot of the amazing art and designs my friends in the industry are posting. I like to have a good chat with people online, I am sure people can relate to that working from home these days.

Do you have any closing advice, points, or statements you would like to make?

Have fun in what you do, if your day job isn't what you love, make what you love in your own time and maybe someone will see that and hire you for it. It seemed to work for me! But, everyone's story is different.

Guest User 3/9/21 Guest User 3/9/21

Takeover Tuesday with Lana Simanenkova

Another Takeover Tuesday for your viewing pleasure. This week we have chat with Lana Simanenkova, a freelance animator and illustrator. Originally from Estonia, she is currently based in London, UK.

Q&A with Lana Simanenkova
Read time: 5 min

Why did you choose your profession? How did you go about starting out?

I had not done very well in school, so I thought that getting a degree in media would be a good idea. I applied to various courses and got accepted into an animation program. Lucky for me, I ended up loving animation and motion graphics. I have been doing it professionally for over seven years now. I started out as an intern making animated ads full-time, then grew that role into a senior creative position which I stayed in for over five years. About a year and a half ago, I left to pursue a freelance career.

What does Women’s History Month mean to you? Why is it personally significant in 2021, particularly?

It's a great way to highlight the amazing talent that often goes underappreciated. It’s also an opportunity to not let anyone forget that there is still much work to be done in terms of gender equality, in the workplace especially.

What do you love most about what you do? What would you change?

I love all the gears the creative process turns in my head. There's a certain trance you fall into when you do something you love and the time flies. That's the most enjoyable feeling for me. As for what I would change, I always try new animation tools with the hope that one day there will be a viable alternative to some of the Adobe products to create more options in the 2D vector field.

“none of my mentors were women, so I had to navigate the male-heavy animation industry by trial and error.”

Tell me about a woman you look up to and why.

I'm a proper big fan of Joanna Quinn. I discovered her work through a film festival in London and even met her once. She’s as badass as her work is; so cheeky and full of life. The linework and the dynamic movement are something I've not seen anywhere else, so I got completely bewitched. She's amazing and I always look forward to her new works.

What’s the best career (or life) advice you have ever received?

Never assume the client knows something already. Especially if they are new to animation. In that case, the more hand-holding and explaining you do, the better the whole process can be. That way you both know what you’re getting from each other.

Do you have any advice for young women first starting out in this industry?

Try and connect with other women in the industry or potentially seek out a mentorship with one. None of my mentors were women, so I had to navigate the male-heavy animation industry by trial and error; when it comes to meetings, asserting my opinion, noticing subtle sexism, etc. I think finding a role model you can reach out to makes a huge difference.

Do you currently prioritize your work-life balance? If so, how?

I've actually gone freelance a bit more than a year ago exactly for this reason. The commute to London, stagnant wages, and some company re-structuring didn’t mesh with what I wanted for my career at that time. Since going freelance I am more in control of the jobs I take on and the image I want to project to potential clients.

“I love all the gears the creative process turns in my head. There's a certain trance you fall into when you do something you love and the time flies.”

What barriers are women still facing in the industry? How do you think they can go about breaking them down?

I think I struggle being taken seriously in meetings. Some studios are mostly still very male-heavy when it comes to animation. Getting my ideas and feedback adequately heard can be a struggle, and I'm sure other women would have had a similar feeling or experience. This kind of thing needs to be changed by hiring more women in leadership positions along with current studio owners taking the time to speak with their staff about topics such as these while making it a safe place to do so.

“never assume the client knows something already. Especially if they are new to animation. In that case, the more hand-holding and explaining you do, the better the whole process can be. That way you both know what you’re getting from each other.”

Where do you go for inspiration?

I check the website, Short of the Week (https://www.shortoftheweek.com/), almost daily as it's a great collection of short films. Both animation and live-action. The site really gets my storytelling juices flowing.

Also, there are some very well curated blogs on Vimeo such as Eye Explosions (https://vimeo.com/channels/eyeexplosions) that are dedicated to motion design. Here, I try to keep my eye on the latest and hottest ads/short films. I also keep a Pinterest page where I have a collection of inspirational images; from interior design all the way to 3D character designs and such. It’s a great place to get lost for a couple of hours, great for references.

Do you have any closing advice, points, or statements you would like to make?

I'd like to highlight some of the women and non-binary-focused groups that are doing a great job at building a community that helps people in the design and motion graphic fields. There are some amazing places to talk about art, work, the business of it all, and much more. Panimation and SheDrewThat both have a Facebook and Slack group that are free to join, I can't recommend them enough.

Panimation - https://www.instagram.com/panimation.tv/?hl=en

SheDrewThat - https://www.instagram.com/shedrewthat/?hl=en

Guest User 3/2/21 Guest User 3/2/21

Takeover Tuesday with Hannah Churn

Introducing our new series…Takeover Tuesday; an opportunity to speak with outside creatives to gain their unique insight on industry going-ons, current events, and their own personal experiences. We’re kicking off with Hannah Churn! Hannah is an art director and animator for Duke & The Duck.

Q&A with Hannah Churn
Read time: 5 min

Why did you choose your profession? How did you go about starting out?

My mom had access to Flash (then Macromedia!) at her job when I was a kid, she told me you could make cartoons with it and it blew my ten-year-old brain. I started off in the industry doing 3D character animation. I wanted to do 2D, but my drawing skills at the time weren’t that great and the motion graphics that we know today hadn’t really taken off. With practice over time, my drawing skills improved, and I soon found myself tooling around in After Effects.

What does Women’s History Month mean to you? Why is it personally significant in 2021, particularly?

Women’s History Month, to me, means giving the space and creating platforms for women to share their stories; making them more accessible, and having their voices heard. When I transitioned from 3D character animation to motion graphics, my first task was watching all the AE tutorials I could find. The more I watched, the more I realized there were zero women making them. It was so hard - then - to find other women who were in the motion graphics field. I ended up finding a few from a motion graphics blog that highlighted ten women in the field at the time, giving them a platform to amplify their voices.

What do you love most about what you do? What would you change?

I love evoking emotion from the animations I work on. If I can get someone to laugh out loud or feel the feels, it means I’ve been able to visually communicate a story well.

Honestly, I’m not sure if there are any big things I would change, I really enjoy what I do. If Adobe could update their icons of the main apps I use to another color than purple, that’d be swell...

“I love evoking emotion from the animations I work on. If I can get someone to laugh out loud or feel the feels, it means I’ve been able to visually communicate a story well.”

Tell me about a woman you look up to and why.

I’m not sure if I have just one woman I look up to, but more of a collective from over the years. They’ve helped me find my voice, to advocate for myself, and inspire me to be a better person. I was quite the quiet wall-flower at the beginning of my career, and because of them, I feel so much more comfortable stepping up to speak my mind.

*U ST FOODIE illustration by Hannah Churn.*

What’s the best career (or life) advice you have ever received?

Don’t value your work just by the hour, but by all of the time that you’ve put into it. I went to an event once where a guy talked about how working for an hourly rate was not great. He said, “Why should we get paid less for something, just because someone else could do it faster?” I don’t know why I never thought of it that way until that moment, but it’s always stuck.

Do you have any advice for young women first starting out in this industry?

Find groups that will help support you in your journey. They’re full of resources, tips, and job postings! Panimation is an excellent one for the motion graphics community.

Do you currently prioritize your work-life balance? If so, how?

Yes! I’m very thankful to be at a studio that values it as well. They’re really good about scheduling projects and adjusting if there are any changes, so projects don’t become a crunch time-thing. Even if it’s switching my work screen for Netflix, taking breaks, and prioritizing time for myself - it’s so important. I also have limited notifications on my devices so I’m not constantly distracted.

“watching content that is different from the motion world helps to open up new perspectives and inspire.”

What barriers are women still facing in the industry? How do you think they can go about breaking them down?

Leading creative decisions. While there are more women than before at the creative director and art director level, there are not as many as their male counterparts. Leading a project can also involve staffing the project, not having diverse creative leads can lead to the less likeness of hiring additional diverse creative staff. Studios need to break away from hiring the people they know for creative leadership positions and make sure that their applicant roster is diverse (not only in gender). Male creative leads need to also make sure their roster of freelance talent is diverse and just not solely a collection of other male friends.

Where do you go for inspiration?

I love checking Goodmoves.tv for a dose of daily awesome motion. Lately, I’ve been enjoying watching live-action short films. I’m not sure if it’s because they’re shorter formats, but I feel like the stories are more unique and interesting - or maybe I just have a short attention span. Watching content that is different from the motion world helps to open up new perspectives and inspire.

Do you have any closing advice, points, or statements you would like to make?

I’m so excited and thankful to have moments like this, where women’s voices are highlighted. Thank you, Dash Studio, for creating this space for women to share their stories and advice.

Mack Garrison 4/24/20 Mack Garrison 4/24/20

Creative investment with Wilson Brown

Before Covid19 relegated us all to our homes, I chatted with Wilson Brown, composer, entrepreneur and founding partner of Antfood Music & Sound Design to talk shop and the importance of investing in creativity.

Q&A with Wilson Brown
Read time: 15min

Mack Garrison:

Hey! What's up, Wilson?

Wilson Brown:

Hi! Great. How are you guys doing in Raleigh?

Mack Garrison:

Dude, crazy times. We're going fully remote next week, so today is going to be our last day in the office for a while. I don't know if you guys feel the same way, but we're starting to feel the ripple effects; projects that were supposed to go live are now getting delayed and a lot of event stuff is being pushed back. Crazy times. Are y’all running into the same thing?

Wilson Brown:

Yeah, definitely, it's a weird time.

We've made a contingency plan on how to work, but the weirdest thing about it all is that it feels like we're planning for the apocalypse, but also there are all of these jobs and bids coming in. There are a handful of things that get postponed or canceled, but then there are other things that people want to just power through.

Mack Garrison:

How long has Antfood been around now?

Wilson Brown:

12 years. 13 years, I think.

Mack Garrison:

Wow, okay. Have you guys ever run into any situation where, I mean, I know this is so unprecedented, but has there ever been any sort of turmoil that you guys have run into during that time? Anything that’s made you restructure the company or approach?

Wilson Brown:

No, no. But I've been thinking a lot about that, and maybe the way that our economy and business is structured is going to shift after this. We used to be a country that was based on midsize businesses, and now we really live in this world where you’re either a giant or small scrappy startup that’s trying to get their way up to that big company.

Mack Garrison:

Right.

Wilson Brown:

Maybe that's a little theoretical, but to bring it back to what we do, we are a larger music and sound company in our niche field, but we're still a small company. I don't know if it's necessarily gotten harder to survive in that climate, but it's become rarer. As such, I think we need to be a bit more creative. I don't know your financials or the details of your guys' business, but I imagine it's somewhat similar that we have this sales cycle that's really short. You mentioned six weeks. I'd say that's about ours.

We've built some financial tools so we can start to have a really, really big estimate of what the next three months would look like. That's what I've just opened up now, and it looks like even without this COVID-19, it looks incredibly rocky and bumpy. But it sort of always looks like that. We don't know exactly what the next thing that will come up will be or the next 20 or 30 things that will come up that are going to help us hit our overhead three months out, but we generally have faith that they will come. We take proactive measures to try to ensure that they happen. And we built these tools to measure it. I'm getting into boring financial calculations of a creative studio.

Mack Garrison:

Haha not at all, I’m interested.

*Wilson (top left) with some of Antfood's team.*

Wilson Brown:

We built these tools to give us some red flags that okay, this is looking a little scary. Let's figure out if we can build up some business in this area or maybe in this area.

We opened our doors in the depths of the global financial crisis of 2007, '08, '09. We started from there. A lot of other contemporaries who started at that same time I've spoken to recently, and it is a different thing because we have a lot more staff. We have a lot more debt. We just have a cash flow and a payroll that is just very different and is a bit more delicate than when we were 25, didn't know what we were doing. We didn't make any money. We didn't have any needs or any bank loans or whatever. I guess it's on a different scale, but I'd like to believe that we can navigate with the same approach that we always have.

Mack Garrison:

Yeah, it's interesting to think about what you talked about at the beginning of Antfood and where it is now. It's like things haven't changed, but they have in a way. I think about when Cory and I started dash, and it was like, "Well, I hope this works out, but if not, it's just us. If it goes under, we'll be all right. We'll find another job somewhere."

But when you start taking on responsibility and a bigger staff with families and they're investing their careers into your career and what you shape and pull together, it's a requirement that you have a plan and are being more thoughtful, as you alluded to, on trying to identify those red flags so you are planning ahead.

Mack Garrison:

A lot of people at the Dash Bash are going to be freelancers who are thinking about starting their own studio or even new studio owners themselves, and since we’ve been talking business, what advice would you give on how to plan ahead for those finances?

Wilson Brown:

I get what you're asking, but I think the more important focus is the opposite. It's to not be driven by money and finances and understand or at least make an effort to figure out what your goals and ethics and the value that you can create as creative individuals or a team or a studio. In my experience and with Antfood, I think the types of projects that we do, the amount of projects, the scale of the projects, the types of clients, has always morphed and changed with the time or the industry's need or our own personal interests as creative people and as a team.

“the most important thing about Antfood is just staying true to what we're good at, what we care about.”

I would look back and say the most important thing about Antfood and how we get through the next months and years is just staying true to what we're good at, what we care about. There's enough work and there's enough need out in the world that if you believe in yourself and can convince other people to believe in you that we'll be able to find a way. We've invested a lot and are just really passionate about what audio can be in the experiential space.

Wilson Brown:

We just redid the whole Empire State Building's tourist experience. It's 30,000 square feet of installation. We just finished the case study on it and we're definitely planning and hoping to use that as a sales tool to get more work like that. But that, as you mentioned, there's going to be a moratorium on that kind of big public work for a while. It doesn't mean that it won't ever come back and it doesn't mean that the skills and the techniques or process that we used in that is not valuable for other applications.

But what's important for me as someone who's running the studio and anyone starting out or wherever they are in their career is that vertical or that type of big spatial, experiential job isn't the crux of what we do. It's the content and the creative and the concepts behind that that hopefully we can apply to a bunch of other things. If people recognize what they can be great at and can stick to it as financial pressures and stresses and HR and payroll and bank debt and all of that stuff starts to pile up as you grow up, I think it's easier to navigate, at least for me, through that lens.

*Shot of the seventy screen gallery space at the Empire State Building’s tourist experience.*

Mack Garrison:

That's really good to know. We started dash because we believe in the power of creativity, so everything we do is reinvesting in the work and trying to make it the best it can be. It’s great to see your success carrying that similar mindset on the creative and trying to push the limits of what's possible. In that same light when you started the studio.... When you started Antfood... Actually, let me ask you this. How do you like to refer to Antfood? Is it a music house? Is it a studio? Is it a music shop? What would be the terminology you'd use to refer to Antfood?

Wilson Brown:

Yeah. It's a good question. I mean we've struggled with really how to exactly brand and position ourselves because I think we want to convey a very simple idea, but we do work in a bunch of different areas for different types of clients. We most often refer to ourselves as a creative audio studio, which we, to be totally transparent, we're not really in love with. I'd say every six months we undertake this exercise to figure out a better way, like a better anthem or tagline, to describe what we do because it feels somewhat broad and somewhat elusive. I think the word “audio” is less powerful or sexy than music and sound. “Studio” is a bit limited and has some type of connotation, but we certainly like studio more than music house or production facility or production company or something because it implies that we have a discipline and a guiding principle and we work as a team under one roof. We're a collective of talented people, but unlike a lot of other music companies in our space who are really producers brokering a lot of freelance talent, we have everybody under the same roof, or three roofs in New York, Amsterdam and São Paulo.

Mack Garrison:

Did you always know you wanted to start your own thing?

Wilson Brown:

Yeah. I think I had a pretty clear vision from the beginning in that at least I wanted to control my own destiny as a creative person. I definitely didn't have this idea that I would start this business from day one. In some ways it's sort of evolved into that somewhat organically and somewhat by necessity. But yeah, I always wanted to have at least my own leeway to pick and choose projects and find things that were interesting. I studied music and moved to Brazil right after I graduated and I was looking for a job either in video production, motion graphics, or music composition. I got a job helping as assistant to the assistant to the assistant on this Seu Jorge and Ana Carolina live recording record. The guy who was producing it ran a music house that made music for ads [It was called Ludwig Van at the time. Run by Apollo9 who is fantastic as composer who built a beautiful studio in São Paulo]. I met up with him and showed him my work, and he hired me. I worked there for a while. I worked in another place for a while and then a third place while I was living in Brazil. Then when I moved back to New York, I guess it was the end of 2006.

“I wanted to control my own destiny as a creative person. I always wanted to have my own leeway to pick and choose projects and find things that were interesting.”

It was just the time where laptops and audio interfaces had become ubiquitous and affordable. The story I always tell is that you could take $10,000 and set up a little home studio that you could produce somewhat professional sounding stuff. Whereas 10, 20 years before that, you needed to have two million dollars to get that same kind of fidelity and quality. That combined with the RIAA versus Napster ruling, which was in 1999, and sort of pulled the bottom out of the music industry, the recording industry, had created a confluence of events where all of the traditional old school music houses that had 20 staff composers had just recently let everybody go and began moving to more of this freelance model.

Because if you think about what we do with music and sound production, everybody needs their own room. Everybody needs their own relatively expensive equipment. It's not like motion graphics, for example, where you can line up a bunch of people on a long desk with a bunch of iMacs. To go back to the old school model and build a real studio with real gear and real people in it was a novel idea for that time. I moved to New York and my friend, Polly Hall, who I started Antfood with, she was in New York doing kind of the same thing. Then we teamed up and we realized that as two people together we could do more or better work than two people apart. We started doing that. We won this really big Nike campaign when we were just starting out, and that sort of opened our eyes that oh, we can actually do this. I wanted to build a place on our own terms, and I wouldn't say that everything is perfect. I mean we obviously do all kinds of work and we have the pressures of clients. It's not like everything is the beautiful creative projects that you guys probably see when we talk at conferences and our websites or our socials and stuff. To a large degree, I'm really grateful that we were able to be this successful and really set up the place to work on what we want to work on.

“a team of talented people is always going to be able to do more amazing things more quickly, more scalable, than an individual equally talented or even more talented person.”

Mack Garrison:

Well, it's interesting listening to what you were talking about with how the music houses were big, but then the price of the equipment and what you could pull together on your own significantly dropped and shifted the industry. Some of those houses closed. More people were doing it on their own. They had the freelance model. I think it's relatable to what motion designers and editors were dealing with. You used to have these big systems that you had to work on, but then Adobe comes around. You get a subscription service, and all of a sudden anyone can start learning this stuff. It kind of leveled out the playing field a little bit or kind of reset it, maybe. When you went back to developing this model of actually having folks in house, why do you think that was so successful after it got depleted initially? Why do you think everything pivoted to this freelance model and then all of a sudden you guys had so much success rebuilding sort of a studio atmosphere?

Wilson Brown:

Yeah. As best as I can understand it, we say a team of talented people is always going to be able to do more amazing things more quickly, more scalable than an individual equally talented or even more talented person. I think we've been interested in finding the jobs where we can really add value to a client, and that could be in terms of quality or creativity, putting in a bunch of different minds together and trying to really sculpt an idea or a concept that is larger than the proverbial singular strike of genius, though certainly that still happens. Hopefully, the way we're set up we're capable of having more of those.

But I think we're always at sort of this balance of cost versus quality or cost versus team or cost versus scale. We deal with that in a lot of ways. I mean there are a lot of little jobs. There are a lot of creative studio projects that we do that we come in and we have bigger, grander, large-scale client work. We've set up a business model where we want both of those and we use the bigger budgets to help fund some of the creative R&D work. We use the outcome of that creative and R&D work to offer better services or quality or ideas to our clients.

*Style frame from David Blaine’s — Spectacle of the Real project.*

Wilson Brown:

I can tell a story that's a more concrete example of what I'm talking about. We did this kind of fun, creative, popup project that was on Broadway and, I think, Prince or Broome in SoHo, Manhattan. It was a slime popup store experience.

Mack Garrison:

Sounds awesome!

Wilson Brown:

It was these two women who rented out two adjacent full street-level stores on Broadway, SoHo, and set up this thing called the Sloomoo Institute. There was a 150 foot make your own slime bar. There was a big sort of a Nickelodeon style run across the oobleck kind of galley and a bunch of other sort of installations that were all slime focused. We did some audio work with this big 10 minute, fully immersive, spatial experience. There were 12 speakers and two 40-foot-long walls with projection on either side. It was 10 minutes that had really 10 different movements. The Mill did all the visuals, but really imagine 10 different vignettes over 10 minutes mixed in 12 channel spatial sound that's our own custom system. There are no plugins or pre-built tools to do that.

Mack Garrison:

Wild!

Wilson Brown:

We were at the opening party of it and someone who I guess was a friend of one of our composers, Bennett, and he came up to Bennett and was like, "Oh my god, how long have you guys been working on this? How long did this take to do?" It was implied that he thought we had been working on it for six or eight months or something of production. Bennett was like, "I don't know, like three days."

I mean there was obviously some buildup to that, but that was one of my proudest moments of the last year is that when it came down to it, we had built this custom system to work in fully spatial sound. And we literally threw six composers and two producers on it for two and a half, three days. We made this incredible amount of quantity and depth and richness of music and sound design. Yeah, I mean, I don't know who's going to see that. I doubt it's going to travel around to other cities at this point. We'll eventually make a little case study, but those are the type of examples that I'm proud of that we built this thing that can achieve great creative and technical results in a timeframe.

“I really believe the way that we get better or at least feel better about ourselves is by embracing the unknown.”

Mack Garrison:

Well, especially so quickly too. I look back and, I don't even want to put this out in the world for people to know this, but some of my favorite projects are ones that almost move so fast where it's like you just have to make decisions on stuff and just jump in and just put a team together and lean on your process. One of our favorite pieces we’ve made was for Riot Games. We basically had three weeks to turn the whole thing around. It was a little bit out of our wheelhouse, but we jumped in and it ended up being one of the best things we’ve ever made . I don't know. Maybe there's something to be said about those projects that are last minute that seem out of your wheelhouse or seem kind of scary, just to trust your process and trust your creative and just jump in it.

Wilson Brown:

Absolutely. I love those projects. I really believe the way that we get better or at least feel better about ourselves is by embracing the unknown. We have decks and presentations that say that. I think that that's very much part of our DNA and, I think, what is important. I love hearing that story for you guys, and we're always looking for those things that we don't know exactly how to do; how do we not just learn it, but how do we master it and then apply that to the next thing. I love that and I like to believe that the people that end up here and work here for a really, really long time look for that as well. I think some of those initial decisions, they can pay off over time, but that you know that first one and maybe that second one and maybe that 10th one you're going to lose some money on until you really figure it out.

Mack Garrison:

It's just refreshing to hear that y'all have done that and that's paid off. Do you have another project like that you could share? Maybe something where you really pushed the creative?

Wilson Brown:

This piece with Foam for Maxon is a good example.

Mack Garrison:

Oh, yeah?

Wilson Brown:

Pedro, the creative director and partner in Amsterdam, and me here in New York and Yuta, who is one of my amazing composers here in New York who I hope will come down to North Carolina with us too, had this pretty clear idea from the beginning. We were given carte blanche. They wanted to show off what they can do with 3-D in that zeitgeist. We wanted to really push our idea of sound design forward, and there were a number of different techniques and aesthetics that we had been experimenting with or maybe had heard and aggregated from other sources. Our goal was look, we want to push sound design forward and think about a new way of using our tools and techniques to create this new aesthetic. I mean obviously it is specific. It's very much like a studio piece.

I remember Yuta, he's the most organized and regimented person. He's in at 10:00 on the dot every single day and he's out the door at 6:00. This is an anomaly, but there was a night we were both here at 9:30, 10:00, and we were wrapping up the mix. We'd been tweaking and just really thinking about how we're going to do it. Amsterdam is delivering. Anyway, we were going to send it to them. They were going to get it over to the client first thing in the morning. Around 9:30 to 10:00, we looked at each other and we were just like, "Well, I guess people are going to like it or they're not going to like it." It was like, "What else can we do?"

Wilson Brown:

Then that piece, it did really well in the sound design award show circuit and got the greatest accolades in that, but more importantly than awards, what's been really great is we have these cool jobs that are coming to us now from some of the biggest companies in the world that are referencing that piece!

We're not getting a billion Maxon related briefs in, but ultimately that's one of the best things about what we do is when we go out on a limb. We have some conviction that this is going to be interesting, and then there's some sense of recognition or appreciation that we were onto something. Because I think that minute that we sent it out the door, we were like, "Man, did we just really kill ourselves over this weird, esoteric take on sound design that no one's going to care about or see?"

Mack Garrison:

Well, it's just so great and it's rewarding and it's validating, right, when you take those risks. You're trying something new. You're trying something unexpected, and you don't know how it's going to be received. And then it's received so well, it's that extra encouragement and it's a reminder why you take those chances. How closely did you all work with Foam as far as creating that stuff jointly, how much of it are you guys coming in at the beginning versus how much are you guys coming in towards the tail end of things?

Wilson Brown:

Oh, yeah. I mean for any project like that to work out, we've got to be together from the day one. I think there's that piece. There are a couple pieces that we've done with Buck over the years like the David Blaine thing and the Good Books a long time ago that in my mind at least sort of occupy this really unique marriage of animation and motion and sound.

*Style Frame from Good Books - Metamorphosis/.*

I think that in all of those projects that turn out well and it feels like there is just this inherent tightness and language and communication between visuals and sound, we're always talking about concepts before there are even boards or style frames. And then we're working on a textural and aesthetic approach while the visual company's working on mocking up whatever the process is, if it's boards or vignettes or motion tests. Then there's always some back and forth and rough renders or animatic that we're filling in. I think 2-D and 3-D work a little bit differently in that phase of the process, and I'd say Foam, they shifted more to us with editorial than necessarily rendering. But we were laying out the whole basics of the structure. And we very much have an analogous process too that we're laying down the most rudimentary stuff and then we're adding objects and texture and whatever the equivalent of lighting is as we work toward a final product.

Wilson Brown:

There always has to be this push and pull that every new edit or render or stringout of visual influences the next round of audio. And then that next round of audio is sent back and that influences the next round of editorial or motion or whatever. We're just sort of iteratively doing that up until we're getting something that feels polished.

Mack Garrison:

Oh, that's fantastic and it shows on the pieces that are so connected.

Wilson Brown:

I think with Maxon, we often do a quick track for 2-D and for stop motion. I think for Maxon we actually had something that it wasn't a straight quick track, but it was actually a set of chords that I think Dalton and Bennett had done. It's like this vocoded piano thing. I think we show a little bit about it in that case study that we made, but we really had sort of like a harmonic outline pretty much from the beginning. Then that sort of provided this temporal framework that everything else, both visual and the richer, deeper audio stuff. But yeah, definitely we often will put a quick track in and even just settle on a tempo before there's any animation. It makes everything, especially little motion gestures, feel much tighter.

Mack Garrison:

Well, dude, I appreciate you taking the time. I know I only booked us for 30 minutes and we ended up talking for an hour, but it was a good conversation and I know the community is going to get a lot from this convo.

Wilson Brown:

For sure. All right, man. Stay safe!

Mack Garrison 4/12/20 Mack Garrison 4/12/20

Sarah Beth Morgan on the Freelance Experience

I had the wonderful opportunity to chat with Sarah Beth Morgan, an art director, illustrator, and most importantly, a dog mom, to learn more about her favorite types of work, what keeps her sane during stressful projects and her advice when going full time freelance.

Q&A with Sarah Beth Morgan
Read time: 10min

Meryn Hayes:

So let’s jump into it! I know a lot of people are going to know you and your work, but can you talk about your background and how you got into illustration?

Sarah Beth Morgan:

Honestly, I took a standard track to get into the motion and illustration world; or at least to get to motion graphics. As a kid, I was always into art, and it's just always been a part of my life. College was when it all started coming together for me, and I started getting a clearer picture of what I was actually going to do. I went to art school at the Savannah College of Art and Design (SCAD). I actually started as a graphic design student, and I didn't even know that you could make graphic design move. I had never even thought of that as a route for myself. When I got there, I was informed about all of the different majors -- and motion graphics was super appealing to me. I think it felt less limiting than static design; I could use mixed media, I could use stop motion, I could use sound effects which adds a lot to things. That really appealed to me - having the versatility and range made it so that I could experiment forever.

Meryn Hayes:

What would you say is the most surprising thing about what you do? And maybe that can be about what you do currently as a freelancer or in your career as of now.

Sarah Beth Morgan:

I mean, there's a lot that surprises me just because this industry is always progressing and there are all these crazy, new technical things you can do - stuff like VR I never thought I would be a part of. But I think what surprises me the most is probably the friendliness and welcoming-ness of the people in this industry. Everyone's so kind and willing to work with you and your style. Or they're really open to having you on their project - or just even meeting people in person at festivals like the dash bash. It's eye-opening how kind this industry is compared to others. For example, I'm currently working on a big passion project, and I've asked quite a few people to dedicate their time to it. I'm extremely surprised that people are willing to go out of their way and spend time on the weekend to work on something that's important to ME.

“…my whole life had been leading up to graduating from college and starting my career. I never really thought about what would happen after that. “

Meryn Hayes:

That’s awesome! Now this is a hard question, but what advice would you give your younger self? Whether it's about going to SCAD or art school, or if it's just generally in your career.

Sarah Beth Morgan:

Yeah, that is a hard question! I've thought about this a lot because I'm such an anxious person, and I wish I could just tell my past self to be patient, be less anxious. I don't know if that would have been actually possible, but I wish I had been able to do that. When I graduated from college, I thought my whole life had been leading up to graduating from college and starting my career. I never really thought about what would happen after that. So when I graduated I was like, "Oh, I did it, I'm accomplished." I kind of thought of the end of college as being the end game. I didn't even realize how much I'd improve afterwards! Or how I could easily make changes later. For example, moving from animating at work to only illustrating full-time, then finally becoming a freelance illustrator. I just had no concept of that even potentially happening. So I guess my advice to someone younger would be: be patient and be ready for surprises because once you're done with school (or even once you're done with your first job), the world is your oyster. You can keep moving around and doing different things.

Meryn Hayes:

Yeah. Yeah. That's good! I feel like I was the same way. You said that you really hadn't even discovered motion graphics until you got to SCAD. Did you know the possibilities after you graduated that you could go right into freelancing, work at a studio, or in-house at a company?

Sarah Beth Morgan:

I don't think I did. I think I knew the word “freelancer,” and I knew that people did it and I knew that it was a possibility. But I didn't really grasp what that would look like. Each new step of my career aided in creating a picture of that because when I arrived at Gentleman Scholar [now Scholar] right out of school - that was what my goal was all through college - “get a job at a cool studio and then you're set.” I didn't even realize that there were freelancers jumping around from studio to studio and taking long vacations until I was at GS. Then, when I got to Oddfellows, I expanded my knowledge of the term “freelancer” and realized: "Oh, there are freelancers in completely different sides of the world and they’re working remotely. And that's something I could do too." So just being in the industry has taught me a lot. I honestly don't think I could have learned all of that in school. The knowledge came from experience. Someone could have told me that, but I wouldn't have grasped it as clearly as I do now.

“…my advice to someone younger: be patient and be ready for surprises because once you're done with school the world is your oyster. “

Meryn Hayes:

What was your motivation from going from a studio environment to freelance, and making that distinction of pivoting just towards illustration? They’re both big decisions. What kind of gave you that inspiration to go freelance? And what advice would you have for people who are kind of debating that same thing?

Sarah Beth Morgan:

There are a lot of reasons that I wanted to go freelance. Most of them were personal. I think I felt that I had enough experience at that point in my career. I had been wanting to go freelance for maybe two years, but I felt it was a little early just because I still wanted to learn more in a studio environment. I got the chance to art direct a few things - and I do love art directing and I'm still doing some of that as a freelancer. But after four years as staff, I think I finally realized that the upward trajectory of moving at a company, getting promoted, wasn't really what I was interested in. It was more about creating something that was “mine” that felt important to me. Having the time to do passion projects was a big motivator.

A frame from Oddfellow's Capital One animation that was art directed by Sarah Beth. — *A frame from* *Oddfellow's Capital One animation that was art directed by Sarah Beth.*

Sarah Beth Morgan:

I also don’t mind the logistical aspects of being freelance. A lot of people don't love the business side of it. It definitely does take up a lot of time, but I wasn't really scared that I would be unorganized or anything. I already had some of those skills and I enjoy writing emails and stuff like that. I gained a lot of that experience at Gentleman Scholar and Oddfellows which was invaluable.

So, it's different for everyone, but I don't know. I guess my advice would be if you're going to do it - just try to prepare beforehand and surround yourself with people who know what they're doing. For example: I hired an accountant because I definitely couldn't try to do taxes / bookkeeping on my own. So my accountant taught me how to use QuickBooks, and I set myself up as a company right after I went freelance. That way - all of my finances were going through my business bank account instead of my personal. I tried to figure out a lot of that logistical stuff before diving into the art side. That helped me a lot too.

Meryn Hayes:

That's great! Pivoting a little bit, what would you say is either your favorite project or the type of work that you like to do the most?

Sarah Beth Morgan:

Honestly this is a really hard question to answer because it really depends on the situation more than the “look and feel” of a project, for me at least. For client work, my favorite projects are all about who I'm communicating with and clients that maybe are open to stranger and riskier concepts. Even the fact that I'm working with someone that trusts my sensibilities and is excited to collaborate. That’s more important to me sometimes than, "Oh this is a really cool project, but I don’t love the communication… and I have to finish it in three days."

But for my own personal work, I think my favorite type of work to do is when I get the chance to explore new styles. When I’m trying new things (even if it looks bad), I know I'm acquiring new skills that will help me in future projects.

Meryn Hayes:

What's the hardest part about what you do?

Sarah Beth Morgan:

I’d say dealing with living up to my own high standards. If I'm on a client project, I work really well off of the validation of the clients. I appreciate feedback like: "Oh, this looks great," or, "Can you fix this one thing?” That’s really helpful for me because I can gauge, "Oh, I'm doing a good job” or “this is what I need to do next.” It feels like the equivalent of grades in school. I'm like, "Cool, A plus!"

But with my own work, especially my passion projects (or maybe if I'm hired for a project that's supposed to be completely in my style) - I think I'm way harder on myself than anyone else will ever be. I'm constantly giving myself panic attacks because I overthink everything. So that's definitely one thing, and then on that same note: I think it's really hard for me to say “no” to projects. I'm such a people-pleaser and I tend to overbook myself. I end up getting burned out. So - I’d say the hardest part about my job is my own emotional connection to my work.

“I’d say the hardest part about my job is my own emotional connection to my work. ”

Meryn Hayes:

How do you choose what clients/projects to take on?

Sarah Beth Morgan:

I think I first value what I said earlier, communication. If the client is responding quickly or if it's someone I really want to work with. I gauge all of that more up-front, rather than the illustration style. I think secondary would come questions like: “does this project look like something I want to put in my portfolio? My website? And can I post it? Is it under a strict NDA?” I think a lot of that really plays into whether I'll take on a project or not.

Style frame from a project with Wonderlust. — *Style frame from a project with* *Wonderlust*.

Meryn Hayes:

I forget where I saw it, but it was analyzing mental health, specifically in the animation and design industry, and just realizing that there's a lot of high stress and anxiety. How do you deal with moments of that? How do you work through that?

Sarah Beth Morgan:

The best thing for me is to plan a week or two off after and have something to look forward to. That helps a lot. I can do that as a freelancer. If you're on staff, maybe something like treating yourself to a weekend trip could help. Having a light at the end of the tunnel is super helpful for me because I can give myself permission to feel like I'm suffering a little bit in the moment - and know that I won't be later. So I don't know. That's not always the best solution. There's always self-care, taking breaks, making sure you're sleeping.. but planning time off is a big one for me.

I try really hard not to overwork myself, but sometimes that results in me trying to squish everything into the day and being really stressed during the day. Then coming home and just still feeling tense. Sometimes I tell myself: "If I just need to stay 30, 40 extra minutes today, it's going to pay off and it'll make me feel better later." I don't do it that often but, yeah.

Meryn Hayes:

No, that's a good point. Setting up boundaries are good, but if the boundaries themselves are making you feel worse, then they're not doing what they should be doing. How do you feel like you’ve broken into an industry that’s predominantly male? Do you have any advice for women or those who are just starting out?

Sarah Beth Morgan:

My advice would be to build a supportive community around yourself and not being afraid to ask other women for advice. And not being too prideful about reaching out if you’re at a low point. I think that's something I really struggled with when I first started. Not just because I was a woman necessarily, but that I didn't feel very confident. I felt meek and I didn't know when to voice my opinions at work or how to build my leadership skills.

I started reading about - I can't remember what the term was for it - but there's this article I found that was about using language to your advantage as a woman. I tend to say “sorry” and second guess myself a lot. I did a lot of research on exuding confidence through your language and listening to podcasts from women who were prominent in my industry or other industries. Surrounding yourself with advice from other women was really helpful for me.

“My advice would be to build a supportive community around yourself and not be afraid to ask other women for advice.”

Meryn Hayes:

How important it is to surround yourself, and maybe it's not as formal as finding a true mentor, but just finding people that you feel you can aspire to be like and learn from is something that is so important.

Sarah Beth Morgan:

I definitely think having more women visible in those leadership roles - or even just speaking at conferences - is really wonderful and helpful. I think that’s something that really encouraged me when I first started. I went to all three BlendFests, and when Bee Grandinetti was speaking...just seeing how down to earth she was on stage. I felt like I could approach her afterwards and ask her questions. That was super encouraging for me. It gave me a role model to look up to and be like, "I want to be approachable like that. I want to connect with other women in the industry." Visibility is extremely important.

Meryn Hayes:

Great, then the last question, very important and controversial here in the office. Is a hot dog a sandwich?

Sarah Beth Morgan:

The age old question, right? I guess I would say no. Is a hot dog a sandwich? Is a taco a sandwich? Is a hamburger a ground beef sandwich?

Mack Garrison 2/4/20 Mack Garrison 2/4/20

Why the dash bash?

When we started dash, we had more questions than answers. Our creative wonderlust made us jump in, but we still had a lot to learn at this whole running-a-studio-game.

For us, festivals like F5, Style Frames, and BlendFest were huge. They gave us an opportunity to talk to our mograph heroes and the inspiring studios they work for. The motion community was incredibly receptive and offered a supportive space for questions and vulnerability. It was void of judgment and full of advice. Having a place that welcomes tough conversations was crucial for our growth. We discussed mistakes. We learned from one another. We took all that information and applied it to projects for real world results. Dash began to win more work and we began to grow; a direct result of our increased industry knowledge and the helpful platform freelancers, studios, and agencies have built before us.

So as we approach our five year anniversary this October, we want to celebrate the industry that celebrated us. The community of thinkers, makers, and creatives who support one another and push our industry forward. We want to foster open conversations, build friendships that last a lifetime, and connect industry vets with the next class of up-and-coming stars. The dash bash is our way of giving back to the family that helped us when we needed it. So For three days this October 21st, 22nd, and 23rd, we’re turning Raleigh, NC into the motion design capital. We’ll have one day of workshops, two days of speakers, and an incredible afterparty to hang with our heroes, meet new friends, and create a lifetime of memories. Connect with us on social and tell us what you’re looking forward to most; why do you want to attend the dash bash? We can’t wait to meet you!