Takeover Tuesday with Alina Marsh
i
An interview with Alina March: a kid-lit illustrator based in upstate New York passionate about colors and all things round and cute.
Interviewer: Matea Losenegger
Read time: 5min
Matea:
Hi Alina! Thank you so much for taking the time to participate in our series. Can you please introduce yourself and your work?
Alina:
Of course! My name is Alina Marsh and I’m a children’s book illustrator. I'm 23 years old and I live in upstate New York. Though I am in the early stages of my artistic journey, one thing I know for certain about my work is that it’ll always be fun and silly.
Matea:
What sparked your interest in art and illustration?
Alina:
I've always had an interest in art ever since I was a kid. Anything that has to do with the act of creating something from your imagination or expressing yourself in a way artistically is something that I've always been drawn to. Before I decided to learn to draw I considered myself a writer. As a child, I filled so many composition notebooks with fantasy stories and fan-fictions of characters (guilty as charged). I wanted to design my own characters for the stories that I wrote so I decided to learn how to draw. I realized drawing was pretty fun, so I never really stopped
A personal illustration from Alina’s portfolio.
Matea:
On your site you call yourself a kid-literature illustrator. Is there a specific path or different steps an artist must take when pursuing this pocket of the field?
Alina:
I guess you could say there's a difference when it comes to being an illustrator for children's books and children's media I think there's a bigger emphasis on collaborating with agencies compared to the freelance perspective of a general illustrator. There is a bigger benefit when you are working with a company or an organization that can actively be your guide to getting you projects especially if you are exclusively as illustrated not an author as well. Regardless of that, I also think that having a genuine interest and understanding of children's entertainment and media is important.
Matea:
Do you have a dream project or any specific stories you're itching to tell with your artwork?
Alina:
I have so many dreams and so many things! I want to do I just want to do all of the things! I think that's my biggest problem sometimes... I’d love to collaborate with a big company like Disney or Target for a merchandise project. I have such a love for illustrating specifically for physical items and seeing my work being showcased as part of someone’s style or personality.
Birthday card for the visual arts department at State University of New York at Fredonia.
Matea:
I absolutely love the way you utilize light and color. How did you develop your style and what is your process in creating these lovely pieces?
Alina:
Reading and observing art is just as important as actually picking up a pencil and making in my opinion. So many things I've learned about creating art, especially color theory, are simply by reading and understanding the thought process of another (way better) artist than myself. I think that there's a certain sort of patience and discipline that comes with learning light and color because it's such a complicated topic to study, but I do think that having that eagerness to learn is going to be just as important as actually practicing drawing every day. In terms of my process, I wouldn't necessarily say I go on intuition, but it's more of I go on the silly little feeling in my heart, cue the cheesiness! If something makes my heart flutter then I want to paint it! I am very much attracted to artwork that fills me with dopamine, which is why I love cute things and colorful things.
Matea:
From digital to gouache, watercolor, colored pencil and clay you work with an impressive variety of mediums. How do you decide which medium you want to use and is it project specific?
Alina:
It depends on what I'm itching to grab for. Although I tend to use digital as my main form of producing art, I don't want to be tied down to a specific medium just because I tend to get bored easily or I can sometimes get burnt out if I use the same media for too long. I do tend to gravitate towards digital a little bit more just because of the portability and the convenience of it, and I typically use it for larger products or illustrations that I plan on creating products or printing out just because I feel like I can get in the nitty-gritty details. Traditional media is where I can let loose and have fun.
Draw in your style challenge for women.
Matea:
Are there any mediums or styles you'd still like to explore?
Alina
I'd love to try animation. In my freshman year of college, I majored in animation and illustration but switched to just visual arts because I wanted to focus on illustration specifically. At the time, I was intimidated by the process of animation and I didn't think I had the attention span to keep up with it. But I'd still like to try and learn some of the basics again. I’d also love to try 3D modeling. it's a concept I still can't wrap my head around but I would love to make 3D models of cute little characters someday, and maybe make my own toys!
Matea:
The passion for your art really shines through in your work. How do you stay motivated to create and do you have strategies for combating burnout?
Alina:
I don't have a definite answer for this because I'm still trying to figure that out myself. I do think that your mind and your body are super connected so if you're not mentally feeling well then you're probably not going to be producing or creating art that you like, if you're even making art at all at that moment. I don't necessarily believe in motivation because if you rely on a will that you know comes and goes at random then you're just going to be wasting time. I think that if you are consistently working on placing yourself in a state of mind where you feel healthy enough to perform, that passion for making art will just come along with it if it’s something you genuinely enjoy. Sometimes I think it can be blocked when we aren't feeling well either physically or mentally. With burnout, I have a silly analogy, if you keep burning your toast, maybe try using a different kind of bread, get it?
Matea:
Are there any projects you're excited to share?
Alina:
I think that documenting your process and your thoughts is such a great way to connect with people and also to understand yourself, so I do want to work on filming more videos and perhaps invest some creative energy in a YouTube channel in the future this year. And while I'm still working on my professional portfolio, I want to focus on making art that gets me excited to work on it.
Matea:
Any final advice or takeaways?
Alina:
I don't think I would have gotten anywhere in my artistic journey if it weren't for having a community around me, and I think that's more crucial than ever in this day and age. I can think back to when I was in middle school, asking for critiques and advice on DeviantART, and just the fact that people were willing to look at my art and answer my questions was enough to give me the courage to continue creating. I think that understanding that when people are giving advice or critiquing your art, it's nothing that you should take personally. It should be something you should see from more of a professional point of view and learn to be better at your craft rather than feeling put down about your art. You should be willing to always seek help regardless of what stage you're in, I think it's always important to have someone share their perspective or give you guidance in any sort of way because I don't think you can do anything alone. Art will always be a team effort even if it's something that's that has independent is painting a picture.
Takeover Tuesday with Hamnah Rizwan
i
An interview with Hamnah Rizwan: a freelance artist and illustrator from Virginia.
Interviewer: Bella Alfonsi
Read time: 5min
Bella:
Thanks so much for taking the time to join us for this series. Can you please introduce yourself?
Hamnah:
Hello! Thank you so much for this opportunity. I’m Hamnah Rizwan, a 21 year old freelance artist/illustrator from Virginia, USA. I am part Hispanic and Filipino from my mom’s side and Pakistani from my dad’s side. I love all things fantasy (The Lord of the Rings is my favorite), spending time around horses, and I hold a Master’s in software engineering from Virginia Tech.
Bella:
How did you discover art and storytelling as a child?
Hamnah:
A lot of the credit goes to my parents. I grew up as a homeschooler which was a wonderful experience that allowed me to grow creatively and focus on what interested me, which was art. My parents encouraged my siblings & I to read about so many different topics and dig into what interested us, which really broadened my imagination. I can remember a couple major points in my life that really inspired me to get where I am today. The first moment was when I was around 9 yrs old and gifted a sketchbook and pencil/pastels set by my parents. This made me feel like such a professional “artist” and I spent all my time watching tutorials and figuring out how to use all these tools. I filled up a couple sketchbooks in no time.
The second moment was when I watched and read the Lord of the Rings for the first time around 10 yrs old. I remember feeling so many emotions after watching the films which included shedding a few tears. This was when I realized how powerful stories can be. I thought about how just one person’s piece of art could be so meaningful and touch so many people’s lives. I also watched all the behind-the-scenes footage for the films which got me excited to learn about concept artwork and design.
These experiences sparked my interest in all types of art including filmmaking, stop motion animation, graphic design, photography, and illustration. I created videos with my sister, animated stop motion Lego shorts that took months to create, and continued filling up sketchbooks of my own fantasy places. I collected every “The Art of” books I could find, my favorite being “The Art of How To Train Your Dragon.” I got my first Wacom Bamboo tablet around 12, and that’s when I knew illustration was the direction I wanted to get into. I loved the traditional work of artists like Tony DiTerlizzi and was drawn to incorporate that style into my digital work. Although I am technically self-taught, I don’t consider myself to be since all my skills have been gained through studying and learning from other artists through self-paced courses, books, tutorials, etc.
Character illustrations as part of a commission Hamnah worked on.
Bella:
How has being exposed to multiple different cultures influenced you and/or your work?
Hamnah:
Growing up, I was fortunate to have been introduced to many cultures and ideas. I am part Hispanic and Filipina from my mom’s side and Pakistani from my dad’s side. I grew up around all four of my grandparents living nearby and was constantly surrounded by many different languages, foods, stories, and SO many beautiful colors and patterns. This has had such a great influence on my art and creativity.
Bella:
I love your illustrations for children's books. Is that kind of work something you want to continue to focus on or are you interested in other types of projects?
Hamnah:
Yes! I would love to continue to work with more authors and publishers in the illustration field and this is my main focus. I have a particular love for projects that involve whimsical, fantasy themes and animals as well as projects that highlight cultures across the world.
Fantasy booked cover Hamnah worked on.
Bella:
Do you have a dream project or client you want to work with?
Hamnah:
Outside of illustration, I have always wanted to be involved in an animated production (preferably fantasy related) as a visual development artist. I’ve always been fascinated by the pre-production stages of films from character design to set/prop design. This would definitely be an ideal project for me. So, if there are any studios out there, I’m here and ready to jump on board!
Bella:
Do you have any advice for someone trying to "find their style?"
Hamnah:
I honestly am still trying to find mine. I understand the struggle with the almost infinite void of art inspo on Instagram and Pinterest. I try to think about what type of illustrations excite me most. Having a consistent style is important for your own branding and making your work recognizable, but it takes time and exploration. To help figure it out, I think it’s important to think about the type of story/theme/mood you are trying to portray in your work and what type of illustration comes easy to you.
A spooky illustration for a Haunted House cover.
Bella:
What programs do you use to illustrate?
Hamnah
I have experience using different types of programs, but my main workflow is using Photoshop paired with my Huion Kamvas 13. Photoshop is such a robust software with so many capabilities and I’ve managed to collect many wonderful brush packs from artists that I love to use. I also have experience with Procreate and Corel Draw which are both great alternatives.
Bella:
How do you stay motivated? What gets you out of a creative rut?
Hamnah:
One of my favorite quotes about creativity is by Jack London where he says: “You can't wait for inspiration. You have to go after it with a club.” Feeling unmotivated is completely normal and experienced by all of us every now and then. I work full-time in IT along with other projects aside from art, and it can be difficult to juggle it all and find time to create. When this happens, I remind myself of London’s quote and try my best to get out of that rut as soon as possible instead of letting the procrastination win.
I’ve been reading about different ways to do this and a helpful method I’ve found in the last couple months is utilizing our “limbic brain.” This is the part of our brain responsible for creativity, ideas/imagery, and activates dreaming when we sleep. Activating this part of our mind involves doing some sort of physical movements or an activity that allows us to think with images like reading. This is probably why we often hear about artists “taking a walk in the neighborhood” to help cure their creative block. I typically try to catch up on a book that I’m reading, exercise, or journal to keep ideas flowing.
Another strategy that helps is making it easy for yourself to create. Most of the concept work for my personal and client work is done in a sketchbook that I carry around. Once I’m happy with it I’ll import the sketch and clean it up digitally with all my tools. The idea of having to draw in a clean, quiet space with all the tablets/laptops/etc. and at a specific time can become a form of procrastination. I try to carry around my sketchbook and squeeze in time to draw throughout the day.
Bella:
Is there something you've worked on that stands out as a favorite to you?
Hamnah:
There have been multiple projects that have stood out to me. One was a promotional illustrational I created for an organization that provides educational resources for children of the Wayuu tribe in Colombia. It was an incredible experience learning more about the culture of the Wayuu people which is primarily governed by women. My artwork was even presented to the leader of the tribe who said she loved it! Another wonderful project I’m currently working on is a picture book for a therapeutic horse-riding center for children with special needs. I am a crazy horse lover and the opportunity to create illustrations and a story about all the beautiful horses for their students is so rewarding and fun.
A fun park illustration exploring some of Hamnah’s character work.
Bella:
Any final advice or exciting things coming up you'd like to share?
Hamnah:
There is a quote I love by Richard Bach where he says: “Argue for your limitations and sure enough their yours.” It is very easy to create fears and perceived barriers in our minds that block us from reaching our full potential creatively. There will never be a perfect moment to create something, which is why today is! I am a strong believer that art and storytelling have a power that helps us think, stirs our emotions, and opens our minds. I’m looking forward to working on more meaningful projects in the new year. Thank you so much for having me!
Takeover Tuesday with Cynthia Soe
An interview with Cynthia Soe: a motion designer, animator, and illustrator
Interviewer: Bella Alfonsi
Read time: 5min
Bella:
Thanks so much for joining us for Takeover Tuesday, Cynthia! Please give us a lil' intro.
Cynthia:
Hi! Thank you for having me :) I am a motion designer, illustrator and animator. I mostly work in the 2D field of motion but lately I’ve been venturing into different mediums and techniques. I am originally from Myanmar, Burma but I spend most of the undergrad and grad life in the States. Oh and when I’m not working, I am probably binge watching a show or baking.
Bella:
What sparked your interest in motion design?
Cynthia:
I’ve always loved telling stories and drawing but I never knew where in the design and art field I belonged to. I dabbled in architecture during my first two years of undergrad but I decided that it wasn’t where my passion lied so I made a 180 switch to Animation. After graduation, I was able to get a freelance opportunity with Digital Kitchen where I worked on a title sequence as an animator and that was when I learned about the field of Motion Design and everything unraveled from there.
Title sequence from Helstrom: a psychological family thriller about Ana and Daimon’s traumatic past
Bella:
How do you think your experience at CCA as well as SCAD have influenced you?
Cynthia:
I think they both helped me grow immensely as an artist. While I was at CCA, I was still unsure of what kind of artist I wanted to be. I explored a lot of techniques from hands-on building, illustration and prototyping. When I came to SCAD, I was more in tune with the field of Motion and knew that it was exactly the field I wanted to work in. My professors and peers from both schools are amazing. They really shaped me in how I view the world of design. I want to thank them so much for helping me become who I am.
Bella:
Do you think having formal training makes a difference in getting a job in the motion design industry compared to being self taught?
Cynthia:
Honestly, I don’t think it does. There are so many amazing self taught artists. I believe you just need ambition, grit and constant motivation and eventually you will earn the job you want. I also think connection and networking is very important in the industry.
Frame from The Great British Bake Off, title sequence.
Bella:
You are skilled in both animation as well as illustration. Do you prefer doing one over the other?
Cynthia:
Yes! After working for a few years now, I would say that I like designing/ illustration over animating. I love researching about the project and envisioning different ideas that will satisfy the client by creating different styles. I do enjoy animating but since I was formally trained in cel, sometimes it can get tedious. Both are definitely fun, especially to see your designs in motion as it comes to life to tell a story.
Bella:
What's your favorite kind of project to work on?
Cynthia:
So far it would be title sequences or brand packages. I do want to work on other types of projects such as 2D and 3D mixed with live action or even music videos. I am honestly excited for any project.
A series of styleframes based off Robert Frost’s poem “Fire & Ice”
Bella:
Your work is colorful and playful and I love the use of texture. What advice do you have for someone trying to "find their style?"
Cynthia:
Oh thank you so much! I think it has very much to do with who you are. It took me a while to find what type of drawing style I liked and fit me. I played around with a lot of drawing styles but the more I drew the more I gravitated towards specific types of colors and design languages which has become my style.
Bella:
What motivates you? How do you get out of a creative rut?
Cynthia:
My friends and family are the main motivators. Since I have a lot of creative friends, seeing all their amazing work helps fuel my creativity as well. When I am in a creative rut, I try to give myself breaks. I would either go on a walk or maybe just take a day to do nothing. I feel taking a break really helps me become creative again. Overall, having a great support system keeps me motivated.
Bella:
What's your proudest moment in your career thus far?
Cynthia:
I would say that the proudest moment in my career is to see my work out in the world. It feels great to see my friends and family going out or watching a show and to send me a pic of them seeing my work.
A frame for Hermès: a French luxury design house established in 1837.
Bella:
Anything coming up that you're excited about?
Cynthia:
Well, I recently just graduated from SCAD and earned my Masters. I have some new projects that I am currently working on and I am hoping to share very soon :)
Takeover Tuesday with Eejoon Choi
An interview with Eejoon Choi: an LA-based illustrator and designer that loves ambient dreamscapes and cute little critters.
Interviewer: Matea Losenegger
Read time: 5min
Matea:
Can you please tell us a little about yourself?
Eejoon:
My name is Eejoon and I'm a Korean illustrator/designer based in LA!
Matea:
What is your background and how did you wind up in the creative space?
Eejoon:
I was first really drawn to art in middle school because I admired another student who always drew fanart of shows and KPOP groups during class. I also really grew fond of Adventure Time around the same time and wanted to draw things that people could equally enjoy! I continued to pursue art but it wasn't college, when I took an illustration class taught by Angie Wang, that I realized how diverse the creative world was.
Illustration for NPR CapRadio.
Matea:
Can you explain what makes editorial illustration different from other forms of the medium?
Eejoon:
With editorial illustrations, I think you really have to do more research to best portray a topic or a person properly. For me, the most challenging aspect is trying to find a good balance between reality and abstracting a narrative/concept into a single illustration.
Matea:
Do you have a different approach to how you tackle editorial illustration vs a motion design project?
Eejoon:
A little! I think my approach is somewhat similar but with editorials, I prioritize capturing another person's story or condensing a larger topic into one illustration. However, with a motion design project, I can break down different elements and tones of a narrative into multiple scenes that lead into one another!
Illustration for NPR NextGen Radio.
Matea:
I've noticed your work tends to have a surreal flair to it. How do you come up with ideas and stretch your imagination?
Eejoon:
I always go to classic children's books for inspiration! There's so much whimsy in children's books that's hard to find in other forms of media. The underlying warmth in each illustration is so tangible and being able to evoke such soft feelings while also being able to portray the protagonist's fears just through textures, colors and composition is a skill that I'm always working to improve.
Matea:
In a similar vein, where do you find inspiration and do you have any favorite artists that have influenced your style?
Eejoon:
I love Brian Wildsmith and Georg Hallensleben's paintings!! I also think Timothy Basil Ering's illustrations in The Tale of Despereaux left a huge impact on me as a child. I also find myself often going to Angie Wang, Jillian Tamaki, and Karlotta Freier for inspiration!.
Matea:
You've created a lot of cool work for NPR. How did you build that relationship and what's it like working with them?
Eejoon:
I applied to work on their Next Generation Radio project when they were collaborating with USC! I honestly feel so lucky that I've been able to work with them on so many projects and being able to watch budding journalists find amazing stories of people across the world!! The illustration team that we've built is so encouraging as well. The creative field can be quite daunting so having such a strong cohort of talented artists who put so much love into their craft is so amazing.
Matea:
If budget and time weren't constraints, what would be your dream project to work on?
Eejoon:
My own children's book!!! I love the medium so much and I've learned so much from them that I'd love to make my own.
Matea:
Do you have any wisdom for aspiring creatives and what do you wish you had known when you first started out?
Eejoon:
Gosh I feel like I'm still learning so much that I don't know if I have any enough wisdom to impart! I do wish I had more confidence to experiment with my art more when I was starting out. I have red-green colorblindness and it affected how I viewed myself as an artist. I was so focused on my disadvantage which made me afraid of freely letting my art look bad to learn and grow. So I guess I'd just tell everyone, including myself, to have more confidence!!
Another NPR NextGen Radio Illustration.
Matea:
Do you have any upcoming projects you're excited to share with the world?
Eejoon:
I'm working on an illustration series about my dog! My dog Lucky, who's been by my side for 14 years, passed recently. I've been grappling with this sense of loss like never before and I've been thinking of ways to channel it into my art to honor her and immortalize her forever. Because most of my work has been to capture a person's life, community, or work, I want to do the same with Lucky where you can really feel her presence and love in a series of illustrations!
Takeover Tuesday with Dee Divakaran
An interview with Dee Divakaran: a Motion Designer and CG Generalist based in Savannah, Georgia who comes from a multidisciplinary background in illustration, design, 2D animation, and visual effects.
Interviewer: Bella Alfonsi
Read time: 5min
Bella:
Thanks for joining us for this Takeover Tuesday, Dee! Please introduce yourself to the people.
Dee:
I'm Dee, a motion designer and CG generalist with a diverse background spanning multiple disciplines. Beyond the world of pixels and graphics, I immerse myself in the vibrant realm of plants. Being an avid fan of magical stories, the wizarding world of Harry Potter holds a special place in my heart. When not tending to my green companions or lost in captivating narratives, I channel my creativity into the art of cooking. Experimenting with flavors and trying out new recipes adds a touch of magic to my daily life.
Bella:
How did you find yourself in the motion design world? Did you always know this is what you wanted to do?
Dee:
My journey into the world of motion design has been quite an unexpected ride. Initially, I had no clue what motion design even meant, or so I thought. It was during my time as a visual effects undergraduate student at Savannah College of Art and Design that I stumbled upon my connection to this field. I had been training in animation before venturing into visual effects, and I realized that during my time as an animation student, I was taught the concepts and principles of motion design. Intrigued and drawn to the combination of design and animation, I then decided to pursue a minor in motion design.
The turning point came during the pandemic, the sudden changes in life served as a wake-up call, prompting me to reevaluate my priorities and career path. This period became a catalyst for rediscovering my passion for experimenting with design, illustration, and animation. I started feeling a sense of belonging in the world of motion design. What resonates with me in this field is the fact that I get to utilize my skills and draw upon my unique background. It's like finding the perfect canvas where I can effortlessly blend my multidisciplinary skills into a visual narrative. So, while I didn't always have a clear roadmap to motion design, being immersed in this creative space now feels like stumbling upon the ideal destination for my career and artistic journey.
A frame from Rickshaw Run: a 10-week mentorship program with The Mill and SCAD.
Bella:
How do you think growing up in Oman has impacted you and your work today?
Dee:
Growing up in Oman has left a lasting and positive impact on both my personal growth and professional approach today. Being immersed in a multicultural environment has not only made me comfortable with diversity but has also instilled in me a genuine appreciation for understanding various perspectives. The rich tapestry of Omani culture, with its blend of traditions and modern influences, has provided me with a unique lens through which I view the world. While I grew up in Oman, I was fortunate to have Indian values deeply ingrained in my upbringing by my parents. I feel that immersing myself in diverse cultures has enhanced my adaptability and refined my communication skills, enabling me to connect better with people from various backgrounds.
Bella:
Do you think getting a college degree in the motion design industry is important? How has it helped you?
Dee:
I don't have a definitive answer to whether a college degree is crucial in the motion design industry. Based on my personal experience and conversations with others, I've realized that there are several factors involved in this matter, such as learning style, accessibility, and an individual's background. From a personal standpoint, pursuing an education in motion design provided me with a clear sense of direction, which in turn helped improve and refine my skills. But it's essential to recognize that everyone's career journey is unique. I strongly believe that remaining open to learning and growth, utilizing every opportunity, and being receptive to unexpected options are key in this dynamic field.
Bella:
You have experience in a variety of different mediums. Which is your favorite to work with?
Dee:
Growing up, I didn’t have a lot of chances to take up any formal art classes. However, I loved to explore a variety of mediums on my own. As someone who sees art and learning as great ways to express myself and have fun, I find it challenging to settle on just one medium. When it comes to, learning about new software, exploring different techniques, or experimenting with emerging technologies, a commitment to ongoing learning allows me to adapt and refine my skills across various mediums.
Recently my focus has circled back to 3D art. I find the technological advancements in this medium to be very exciting, particularly the prospect of combining 2D and 3D elements. Inspired by films like 'Spiderman into the Spiderverse' and 'The Mitchells vs. the Machines,' my goal is to explore and integrate these dynamic techniques into my personal projects so that I can learn and grow from them.
Bella:
Are there any mediums or styles that you have yet to try out, but would like to?
Dee:
Absolutely! There are several mediums I haven't explored yet, and I feel a surge of excitement every time I come across another artist showcasing something new and inspiring to me. I have a particular fondness for cinematography and photography. Having explored these mediums in the past to enhance my understanding of composition, this experience has significantly influenced how I design and compose elements across various projects. Lately, I've been eager to revisit cinematography. I'm drawn to the idea of exploring storytelling on a deeper level through cinematography tools, such as composition, color, lighting, pacing, and more. There's a rich world to explore in this medium, and I'm looking forward to incorporating these insights into my current and future creative projects.
Bella:
What's the ideal project for you and why?
Dee:
In my perspective, an ideal project is any opportunity that facilitates the learning of a new skill or one that enhances an existing one. Even when I take up challenging projects, I find that navigating through stressors not only tests my abilities but also leads to valuable self-discoveries. I also firmly believe that learning is a lifelong journey that extends beyond an academic environment. Embracing this philosophy, I approach each project with an open mind, excited about the continuous learning and personal development it offers. For me, it's not solely about being an artist; it's about evolving as a person through the work I do. I'm excited to see the extent of my growth through each project and experience in the future.
Bella:
What motivates you/how do you keep going when feeling creatively burnt out?
Dee:
When creative burnout sets in, I've learned the importance of stepping away from work and immersing myself in other passions or engaging in simple tasks, such as taking a walk in the park. Although it can be challenging, especially when a lengthy to-do list is always looming in the back of my head, I've realized that this break is crucial for reigniting creativity and enhancing my overall productivity. By detaching from work and allowing myself moments like this, I create mental space for fresh perspectives and ideas. This time away acts as a reset button, enabling me to return to my projects with a renewed and clear mindset. Taking a break is slowly becoming a strategic move for me to accelerate productivity in the long run. However, I must admit that finding the right balance, especially in the context of time management and deadlines, can be challenging. Although I’m still refining this process, I still consistently find that incorporating moments of relaxation into my routine is the initial step toward overcoming creative burnout.
Bella:
What's your proudest moment in your career thus far?
Dee:
My proudest career moment to date is the unexpected opportunity to collaborate with NASA. As someone who has always been passionate about science, this experience has been a dream come true. It marks a significant professional milestone, as well as a deeply personal achievement that I never thought possible. I’m honored to have been part of the incredibly talented team that worked on this project and to have played a role in promoting NASA's ICESat-2 mission. The mission, abbreviated for Ice, Cloud, and land Elevation Satellite-2, plays an important role in our understanding of the Earth's changing climate. ICESat-2 utilizes laser technology to measure changes in ice and land elevation, providing critical data for studying ice sheets, glaciers, and sea ice. It also measures Earth’s heights throughout the year across diverse biomes, accounting for vegetation in forests worldwide. Being involved in promoting this mission aligns well with my passion for science, and it adds an extra layer of fulfillment to my work.
Make sure to check out Dee’s demo reel.
Bella:
Is there anything coming up that you're excited to share?
Dee:
I’m currently in the ideation process for my final graduate project. My plan is to experiment with the combination of 2D and 3D mediums, with the aim of integrating these elements into a visually captivating and cohesive narrative. What makes this project even more exciting is the integration of my experiences from internship, professional project, collaborations, and mentorships, weaving in a rich tapestry of skills and insights. I will be documenting the process on my portfolio website. I’m really looking forward to sharing the results and all the valuable lessons I’ll be learning along the way!
Takeover Tuesday with Andrea García
An interview with Andrea García: a 26 year old Mexican artist living in Mexico City that graduated from Universidad Anáhuac in Multimedia Design who has great interest in character design and visual development.
Interviewer: Bella Alfonsi
Read time: 5min
Bella:
Thank you for joining us in this series, Andrea! Can you please introduce yourself?
Andrea:
It’s my pleasure! Thank you for inviting me. My name is Andrea García, I am a 26 year old Mexican artist.
Bella:
How did your art career begin?
Andrea:
It begin little by little. I started taking as many character design and illustration courses as I could. Once I started to feel more confident about my work, I decided to volunteer at projects. In this phase I designed characters, I interned as a color artist for a movie, and I started offering my illustrations as a freelance. After that, and after a lot of failure, projects started coming.
A few character explorations from Andrea.
Bella:
What is the design industry like in Mexico City?
Andrea:
I think it’s a very competitive industry where you have to give your best to stand out. But I think that is great, because thanks to this, every time there are more talented mexican artists.
Also, people in this industry are very nice. Professionals are always open to help you grow and give you advice if you reach out for them. So, it’s a great time to be a part of this industry.
Bella:
Is there an artist or piece of work that inspires your art style?
Andrea:
Absolutely, a lot of them actually. But if I have to name a few, I would say Stephen Silver, Jean Fraisse, Torsten Schrank, and Gaby Zermeño.
A frame from one of Andrea’s illustration explorations.
Bella:
When you're feeling stuck, what keeps you going?
Andrea:
Definitely the motivation of achieving my dream. Feeling stuck is normal, specially when you are working hard on something with no results, and I think it’s okay to take breaks when needed. As I said, it’s a very competitive industry, and this also means it’s hard to get in. There are many rejections on the way, and this can be very frustrating sometimes, but you have to be patient with your path and figure out how to get better until you make it.
I guess I was so sure of what I wanted to do, that I just had to come back every time and keep going.
Bella:
Do you have a dream project or anything specific that you dream of working on?
Andrea:
Yes, I dream on designing the characters of a big movie.
Bella:
Are there any mediums or styles you'd still like to explore, but haven't yet?
Andrea:
Sure, but I think there are some things that you explore on the way. Working for different clients definitely helps with this style exploration, and I am sure this will keep making me expand my styles.
Illustration titled “Wizard of Oz”
Bella:
Is there a project you've worked on so far that stands out as a favorite to you? Why?
Andrea:
Yes, a pilot episode for a TV show where I worked as a character designer. This was great for me because I had a lot of creative freedom, so the characters turned out to be pretty much what I pictured them to be. Also, I love working on projects for children, and this was the case. I got to work with amazing people and it was so exciting to be a part of a talented team. There were a lot of things that made this project special and I am really grateful that I got to be a part of it.
Bella:
Is there anything coming up that you're excited about?
Andrea:
There is! I am about to start a new project where I will be designing the characters of a new TV show. I am really excited about it!
Color and turn explorations.
Takeover Tuesday with Elizabeth Gu
An interview with Elizabeth Gu: is an illustrator and designer based in Houston, TX. With an interest in creating worlds suspended between fantasy and reality, she likes to relate these unseen, surreal worlds to the psyche and internal states of mind that are often difficult to express through words.
Interviewer: Bella Alfonsi
Read time: 5min
Bella:
Hi Elizabeth! Thanks for taking over this Tuesday with us. Can you please introduce yourself?
Elizabeth:
First of all, thank you so much for having me! I'm so excited to contribute to this series.
My name is Elizabeth and I’m a designer and illustrator based in Houston, TX. I initially studied civil engineering before taking what feels like a tremendous leap into the design world. At the time, I was working as Art Director at my school’s daily news publication and pretty much decided to take my interests in illustration and design more seriously. After shifting gears, I got my first design internship with Pixel Park. Interning there was super formative to my artistic growth, but also more profoundly - my sense of community in the motion design industry. Shout out to the Pixel Park family, love you guys! <3
Since then I’ve found myself freelancing on projects in graphic design, editorial illustration, and motion design. I feel very fortunate to have landed these opportunities and I’m just excited to continue learning more.
Bella:
What sparked your interest in illustration/design?
Elizabeth:
I spent a lot of time drawing, painting, and dabbling in arts and crafts as a child. So I think the interest has always inherently been there in some way. When I got a bit older I started messing around with digital art and using an Intuos tablet for the first time. Making the switch from traditional to digital was absolutely mind boggling while opening up this whole new world.
As a Chinese-American, I grew up with certain expectations about what my job should look like and the reality of adulthood made anything artistic feel like a non-option. However, when I was studying at the University of Southern California, I came across their animation program and ended up completing an animation minor. So as an adult, I was able to rediscover what illustration and design meant to me while also seeing how art could be applied in the real world.
Illustration titles “Dreamless Slumber.”
Bella:
What inspires you and your work?
Elizabeth:
I love themes of magical realism and surrealism. Both visually and conceptually - things like seeing the ordinary as opportunities for magical moments. As a child, I was enchanted by the kodamas in Hayao Miyazaki’s Princess Mononoke. Or the soot sprites hidden away in the old countryside house in My Neighbor Totoro. Ideas that were saying if you looked closely enough, you would find something sacred and magical. Perspectives of reality can bend.
Also as a general rule of thumb, I try to stay open minded to new experiences. This keeps the flow of inspiration in motion for myself. Seeing new places, people, or perhaps indulging in new food from different cultures. Anything to expand and change your brain is so invaluable for creatives.
Bella:
What advice do you have for artists trying to find clients?
Elizabeth:
I would say to value every interaction you have within the community. Don’t expect anything to be a one-off, and put in energy to stay connected with the people it comes naturally with. Not only do you end up learning a lot from them, but it’s also an immense mood booster when you’re feeling lonely on your freelancer island.
Speaking more strategically, Motion Hatch is a wonderful resource that goes more deeply into the freelance game. Hayley Akins talks about how to build your online presence, warm up to clients, but also how to use your pre-existing network (work smarter not harder). I know for me specifically, I learned a lot about how to phrase cold emails but she has since put out a ton of useful content specific to the motion design industry. Definitely worth checking out!
Frame from one of Elizabeth’s Social Media Explorations for Pixel Park.
Bella:
A lot of your work has a deeper meaning and seems to be expressive of something you've been through. How has illustration helped you through tough times?
Elizabeth:
I’ve always been drawn to illustration that operates like visual essay. Subconsciously, I want my own work to have layers of story that might be interpreted in different nuanced ways. I think it's helped me in the sense that it doesn't require verbal explanation and the healing is in the process. It's like a meditation through the act of creation.
Granted, sometimes my pieces can feel so obviously diaristic I want to take them back because it’s too embarrassing! But then you realize everyone is the same way, stumbling in their vulnerability. So better to have shared than to hide away. It's kind of what art is for - to share and discover that we're all the same in a lot of ways.
Bella:
I love the colors and textures you use. What's your process of finding a color palette for a project like?
Elizabeth:
Thank you! I think working with colors might be my favorite part of the whole process. I usually gravitate towards purpley blues and love pairing that base with yellow or pink accents. Anything that gives off a moonlit nocturnal scene I’m pretty much always partial to. With specific projects where this isn’t the case, I usually first identify the tone and mood. Then I play around with colors that match and I take time to assess my reaction. I try to find ways to use my favorite ones into projects, but I also like the challenge of an unfamiliar color that isn’t in my typical wheelhouse. I’m not a color expert, but the process is often an intuitive back and forth more than anything else.
Bella:
What advice would you give to someone who is "trying to find their style"?
Elizabeth:
I would say a big part of it is honoring your interests and being willing to explore them in your work. I still find this difficult myself when certain visual styles are in vogue and seem to dominate the “look” of the industry. But personal style is ever-changing and takes a bit of time to develop, so it's important to keep creating and investigating what you like. It helps me to see it as creative playtime rather than the pressure of finding your style as soon as possible.
Frame from “Water Memory.”
Bella:
Do you have a dream project or client you'd like to work with?
Elizabeth:
I always have a hard time answering this! I think there are so many cool projects going on, both big and small. I would say story-based concepts that are emotionally explorative in nature would be such a treat to contribute to!
I’ve recently been enjoying sci-fi content like Scavengers Reign which has such immersive alien world visuals. Bladerunner 2049 is another recent watch of mine and I can’t get the striking dystopian set design out of my head. Paired with concepts about the human condition, our relationship with technology, environmentalism, etc. I find any project that touches on these themes so compelling.
Studio-wise, I have also adored Chromosphere’s work. In particular, the short film “My Moon” which explores romantic versus practical love. This is represented in a love triangle with the Earth, Moon, and Sun. The Sun provides light, energy, and color to the Earth while the Moon is less practical. I’m such a sucker for symbolism in the form of celestial bodies!
Bella:
Is there anything you've learned as an artist thus far that you wish you knew when you first started?
Elizabeth:
I wish I understood sooner that the only person I was competing with was myself. As someone who came from engineering where a lot of processes can be more linear with exact steps - I started creating this unnatural checklist fueled by anxiety and comparison. I remember telling myself I needed to work with certain clients by a certain age which was absolutely ridiculous and unfair to myself when I needed the time to switch industries and gain footing. Obviously there are crucial beats to hit such as developing your portfolio, but in large it’s much healthier to be patient with yourself and let your circumstances naturally guide you.
“The Big Role Nostalgia Plays in My Life”
Bella:
Anything exciting coming up that you're excited to share?
Elizabeth:
Client-wise, I designed a piece for Blue Cross Blue Shield of North Carolina that’s out now! Many thanks to Kyle Griffin who animated and also played a major role with design concepts.
And for personal work, I would be remiss to not mention My Shadow which was designed under my mentorship with Dash. Shout out to Meryn Hayes and Meg Snyder for supporting my ideas and offering their sage advice along the way! It deals with themes of the inner child and rekindling a sense of wonder and curiosity.
“My Shadow” Based on a personal dream where a young girl is gifted her shadow.
Takeover Tuesday Catarina Alves
An interview with Catarina Alves (AKA itsacat): a Graphic Designer and Illustrator born in Portugal who is constantly diving into the world of shapes and colours to bring them to life through animation.
Interviewer: Bella Alfonsi
Read time: 5min
Bella:
Thanks so much for joining our Takeover Tuesday series, Catarina! Please introduce yourself for the people who aren’t familiar with you.
Catarina:
Thank you for having me! I'm so happy! I'm Catarina, an illustrator and designer. I was born in Porto and currently live in Amsterdam. I've always been interested in art because my parents are both artists, so I studied graphic design.
I currently work as a designer/illustrator for the animation industry.
Aside from my work, I have a cat called Jimi and I'm obsessed with him (he reminds me of the Chinese lucky cat, fat and fluffy).
One of my hobbies is scuba diving but, now that I live in the Netherlands, it seems nonsense haha. However, it's something that makes me completely disconnect and feel like I'm in a whole different world. So, whenever I go on vacation, I try to go to destinations where I can dive to detox from the whole year I've been in front of a computer.
I'm also obsessed with food, and I love trying new restaurants with different concepts.
Bella:
How did you get into the motion design industry?
Catarina:
I started studying Graphic Design, and then I had the opportunity to work in a video mapping company. I began to explore 3D and 2D animation, so I took a postgraduate course in motion design. From that moment onwards, I had worked in an animation production company in Barcelona for five years.
However, keyframes weren't exactly what I wanted to do, mainly because my background was in design, so I started working more as an illustrator/art director for animation. Everything I learned in animation made the transition easier, as I began to understand better how to develop ideas and to design for the animation world.
Welcome illustration for Catarina’s website.
Bella:
What’s your experience been like working with Buck?
Catarina:
I'm really glad about this new step in my career. I had spent three years as a freelancer and, although it was something I loved doing, I have always had the ambition to work at Buck and develop my skills alongside their team.
Sometimes, changing from freelance to full-time can be challenging because both have pros and cons. But, so far, it's been a great experience to work with a team again, absorb wider knowledge, and grow professionally.
When we have such a talented team, sometimes we can feel pressured about your work, but, at the same time, we can learn more and understand that everyone has the same fear. So, we need to start believing in our skills. Nothing is impossible.
Bella:
I love all of the different characters you create. How do you give unique personalities to each of them?
Catarina:
Oh, thank you so much! I don't have an answer to that because I don’t have a very defined style like some artists. I try to absorb a bit from my day-to-day life and gain inspiration; which means that most of the things I develop are very trial and error oriented.
I have always had some difficulty in drawing certain body parts and I started doing it regularly so that I would feel more comfortable in that area. That’s why nowadays I really like drawing hands with different proportions.
I like exploring different styles, namely 3D realistic drawings, and more minimalist images…
When I don’t feel that inspired, I look up for photos I like and stylize the character as much as possible. That helps me develop my skills and explore my creativity.
Forbes Virtual NFT Billionaire Character Illustrations
Bella:
What’s the workflow like when combining 2D with 3D?
Catarina:
I've always loved mixing media between 2D and 3D, and for that reason I’ve been working a lot with Jonas, as he is a 3D designer. One of the best things when you team up with someone is trying to take the most out of the other person’s skills.
So I started creating some drawings, and then Jonas would do the modelling. After that, I could explore different textures, colours, and ideas.
I began to feel that some of the things would work better in 2D rather than 3D, so I decided to replace some 3D elements. Then, we realized that it works and brings character to our work.
Bella:
Is there a project you’ve worked on that stands out as a favorite to you?
Catarina:
One of the projects I loved doing was for Forbes. I was lucky enough to have all the freedom to design this project. The idea was to create different characters that could work as a toolkit.
I started by developing the first sketches, working on proportions, and exploring different eyes, hair, and clothing.
The challenge was to integrate 2D well into 3D. So the same eyes or hair could work on other faces. I felt really happy with the result, and the client did too, which was very important to us.
Another one was a secret pitch, I really enjoyed working on it. It consisted in an animation video using paper characters. When I saw the references for the first time, I thought, “Omg, what am I going to do with those paper references, how can I create some cool characters using paper?” So it was a challenge!
At the end, it turned out to be an incredible assignment, one I couldn’t even imagine it would have such a new and different result. For me, developing the animals was a challenge because I wanted them to be singular and, at the same time, to be able to build them up on paper. We nailed it because we had finally found a graphic style with which we identified ourselves.
I share with you my favourite animal.
Bella:
What/who inspires you?
Catarina:
Lots of things and people. It’s something that happens naturally on a daily basis. I learn something new every day, whether through a conversation, a project I've had the opportunity to collaborate on, or just something I've seen.
I'm a person who is constantly overthinking about everything but also very emotional at the same time, so, sometimes, the way to get my feelings out is through drawing. So, my biggest inspiration is my daily life.
Caterina’s favorite animal.
Bella:
What advice do you have for getting out of a creative rut?
Catarina:
When I feel blocked, I try to get out of my routine, see something new, take a different route, and try to meet someone I haven't met for a long time, but who will bring me something new. Nowadays, it’s very normal to feel blocked; there’s so much going on around you that sometimes it makes you feel too small.
Most importantly, we should respect that sometimes we need time and space and not push ourselves too much; take your time.
Bella:
How would you describe your brand/style?
Catarina:
It’s a tricky question; I’ve never thought about it. It was something I developed when I started freelancing since it's important to show more solidity and to keep up to date. Whenever I develop a new project, I try to explore other styles within "my" style. I don't like to feel that I'm always doing the same thing because I end up building limitations and not growing professionally.
I think that the best way to describe my brand/style is as friendly and with a great connection with graphic design.
Some of Catarina’s personal illustrations!
Bella:
Anything coming up that you’re excited about?
Catarina:
There are many things, but I’ve been working on a toy, in collaboration with my partner, Jonas, for some time. I've almost finished the design, and now we're working on the modelling to print and paint it. We will do everything in-house because we had already explored some prototypes a year ago and want to do everything from scratch. The idea will be to develop a limited edition. I love drawing something and bringing it to life; I think it’s quite special.
Still from Catarina and Jonas animation and illustration course.
Takeover Tuesday with Charmaine Yu
An interview with Charmaine Yu: freelance illustrator and designer from the Philippines. I'm passionate about storytelling, and I have a curiosity that constantly fuels my drive to improve, try new things, and learn new skills
Interviewer: Bella Alfonsi
Read time: 5min
Bella:
Thank you for joining us for Takeover Tuesday, Charmaine! Please introduce yourself!
Charmaine:
Happy to have been invited 😊I’m Charmaine Yu! I’m a freelance illustrator and designer from the Philippines. I love working on motion design projects — creating storyboards, style frames, character designs, and other illustrated assets. When possible, I also enjoy working on editorial and branding projects. Recently, I’ve also started to call myself a budding cel animator, since being immersed into the world of motion design & animation has really inspired me to take the steps to learn how to make my drawings move.
Bella:
How did you get to where you are today in the industry?
Charmaine:
Hmm, there are definitely a whole bunch of things that I’m grateful for that helped me get to where I am now – education, experience, support, trust, luck, and dedication (or in other words stubbornness 😂).
I started off my career in 2019 as a fresh graduate from the University of the Philippines with a BFA in Visual Communication. Then, I worked as an in-house illustrator for a local tech startup, but after a year, I felt like I wasn’t making the work that I wanted to and decided to make a huge shift by jumping into freelance. Around the same time, I took School of Motion’s Illustration for Motion online course, which gave me the confidence to start doing work in the motion design space. Afterwards, I got to connect with amazing talented people in the industry, worked on my first few motion projects (thanks to studios and fellow freelancers who took a chance on me), and joined different motion communities where people would share resources, experiences, and opportunities (like MDA and Panimation slack channels).
Since then, whenever I’m on a project, I make sure to do good work; when I’m not on a project, I continue reaching out to studios/agencies, work on personal pieces or projects, and find ways to improve my skills.
Since I jumped into this industry as a freelancer and never got to experience being a part of a motion studio yet (though it is definitely something that I want to do in 2024 or after), research, reaching out, and asking questions have been incredibly important to navigating the industry. Being a part of Dash’s mentorship program in early 2023 also helped me so much in figuring out how certain things work, as well as how I could grow and progress as a creative.
I still have a long way to go career and skill-wise, but I’m incredibly fortunate and grateful to have been a part of some fun projects so far and to have worked with people across the globe!
In her free time, you might find Charmaine interacting with animals, figuring out cel animation, crocheting, learning a language, or searching for my next adventure.
Bella:
Do you have any advice for someone trying to be a freelance artist full-time?
Charmaine:
A WHOLE BUNCH. Hope it’s ok if I share a few!
Firstly, before going freelance full-time, create a potential client list. It would be a much smoother start into freelance if you already have a few potential clients who know and/or trust you and would probably be able to give you some work. If not, at least have an idea of who you can offer your services to and who would be your target clients.
Secondly, build out your savings (ideally enough to cover 6 months to 1 year of expenses) so that you’ve got a financial safety net in case it gets tough to find work, especially within the first year or so (or during a recession). This also gives you some financial peace of mind — enough to avoid pricing low on jobs just to get some money to pay the bills.
There’s a lot more I could say, but to keep it short, here’s my last piece of advice: talk to other freelancers. Working as a freelance artist can be kinda lonely — you may not have a team that you always work with or a boss/mentor to approach when you need guidance. I think it’s incredibly helpful to find freelancer friends who you could share experiences with; ask for help, advice, or critique when you need it; or collaborate with when working on larger projects.
Bella:
I loooove your characters. They have so much personality. How do you give life to something that isn't human, like your fluffy cloud-like creature in "Bounce"?
Charmaine:
Ahhh, thanks so much! Hmm, whenever I create characters (human or non-human), I always try to come up with a backstory: What’s their personality like? Why are they doing whatever they’re doing in the scene? What’s their relationship with other characters in the story? How are they feeling in this moment? And so on. This really helps to build up the “why” in my character designs and informs my decisions in the shape language, details, colors, etc.
Charmaine’s “Funny Creatures.”
Bella:
Is there a project you've done that stands out as a favorite to you?
Charmaine:
Well, “Bounce” definitely remains as one of my top favorites. It was my first fully illustrated looping animation! I went into it not quite sure if I could actually make what I was imagining in my head and with no idea of whether what I was doing was even right, but I came out of it incredibly happy with the outcome!
I said “yes” to something I haven’t really done before and gave myself a difficult challenge, but I was thankfully able to do it and deliver! So this project really felt like such an accomplishment to me and that I had leveled up because of it!
Bella:
What kind of work is most fulfilling to you?
Charmaine:
I find it very fulfilling when I get to discuss and brainstorm ideas on the project I’m working on — in other words, any project where I have a voice that will be heard and where I can suggest concepts, art direction, visual solutions, or approaches to accomplish the project’s goal. Basically, I like being valued as an artist not only by my technical skills, but my creative ideas & vision as well.
Being able to collaborate with a team of amazing artists is also incredibly fulfilling for me. I think it’s so awesome to have creatives, all with different skills and strengths, working together on a larger project and creating something that might’ve been impossible for just 1 person to make — like a community helping each other out and working towards a common goal.
Bella:
What method are you using to learn 2D cel animation?
Charmaine:
I’m on the journey of teaching myself 2D cel animation — that means Youtube “academy”, whatever free or affordable resources I can find online, books, lots of practice, and self-discipline. However, I’ll be honest that my cel animation learning has been kinda on and off throughout 2023. To add to that, it’s also been way too easy for me to just consume study content about cel animation and call it a day (or as it was coined in a substack post by Beth Spencer — “pro-CLASS-tinating” 😅). However, I’ve realized that I want to be serious about learning this, and that if I didn’t put in the hard work and actually apply those learnings into consistent practice, then I would never make any progress. That’s why, last November, I started planning out my own lesson plan, exercises, and personal projects that I wanted to work on in order get those practice hours in and create more animated work. I’m not sure how long it’ll take for me to get good and become more confident in my animation skills, but I’ll probably keep at it till I get there!
Some learning resources that I’ve been using include The Animator’s Survival Kit by Richard Williams, various Skillshare classes, and youtube videos (like those from Alex Grigg & Toniko Pantoja). I’ve also been studying animated shows (especially anime, which is a goldmine of amazing handdrawn animated goodness), films, and works from amazing animators I follow online (e.g. Reece Parker, Rachel Reid, Jocie Juritz, Henrique Barone).
“Bounce” - One of Charmaine’s favorite projects.
Bella:
Where/what do you get inspiration from?
Charmaine:
Anywhere and everywhere, really! I love getting inspired by artists I follow on Instagram, articles I read on Substack/Creative Boom/It’s Nice That, whatever I come across on Pinterest, and films & series that I’ve watched. Outside of the screen, I also draw inspiration from people-watching, nature, travelling, my daily life, and other experiences.
Bella:
What helps you get out of a creative block?
Charmaine:
Whenever I’ve felt uninspired, I’ve never liked trying to force my way through it as often it leads to results that I’m not really happy with. Instead, I find it helpful to step away for a bit, take a break, and do something that can relax my creative brain. Usually, I would get off my desk to take a walk, grab a snack, play with my cats, or simply take a nap — it’s amazing how many times sleep has given me a creative boost!
If the creative block is kinda bad, like maybe bordering on burnout, I would ideally take a longer break and try to find some inspiration: maybe I’ll decide to play around with materials and mediums that I wouldn’t normally work with, or maybe I’ll go on a vacation to see some new sights and create new experiences.
A set of styleframes that I created for a client titled “A Different World.”
Bella:
Any advice/takeaways?
Charmaine:
Sharing as advice something that I absolutely live by: Never stop learning! Whether it’s to improve your current skills to help level up your work or to learn a new hobby that you just want to get into, don’t be afraid to get out of your comfort zone, make mistakes, and learn something new ✨
Thanks again for inviting me onto Takeover Tuesdays and hope everyone has a lovely day!
Freelancing 101 with Ryan Summers
Relationship building, mental health, and the art of negotiating; just three of the many topics we discussed with Ryan Summers. Ryan has worked with the likes of Guillermo Del Toro and JJ Abrams and is currently a Creative Director at School of Motion.
Q&A with Ryan Summers
Read time: 20 min
Ryan Summers:
It's hard.
It was less hard for me this time because when I was at BK Kitchen, the last year I was working by myself in two separate rooms. I had two big projects I bounced back and forth from. But when I went from working at Royale to freelancing from home for Odd Fellows, it drove me nuts. The culture was so awesome at Royale. We were playing music all the time. We were playing video games and helping each other with projects. Then all of a sudden, it was just silence. It didn’t take very long for me to be like, this is crazy. This is not normal.
Mack Garrison:
I'm trying to keep the same regimen that I had at the office. Waking up, working out, getting my coffee. Trying to keep some daily structure to it. It's such a slippery slope. Even this morning I woke up, I was like, well I'm working from home, I don't have to work out. I could just sleep a little bit longer. And that's when you start getting dangerous, man.
Ryan Summers:
You need a space that's just for work if you can. Even if it's just a desk to separate work mode. And then, you need a routine. Routine is the biggest thing.
Mack Garrison:
No, that's a really good point.
Thinking about the dash bash; about the demographics that are going to be there. I think there are a lot of people that are either just getting into freelance, rising in the freelance game, or on the precipice of starting their studio. What are some things that folks should be thinking about when they're going off on their own? I’m thinking about how it can catch you off guard when you find yourself in this lonely situation that you hadn't been in before. What are some struggles you think people should be preparing for as they go into the freelance game?
Ryan Summers:
I've been in that position, granted, not in this kind of specifically-geared environment. But the first thing is always runaway and capital. If you have to worry about having enough money in two weeks, you're not going to be your best artist or your best business person going forward. So as much as possible, I try and have that runaway figured out so that there's a safety net. But as much as the financial stuff is important, I think the psychological enemies are difficult no matter what. There are so many factors of, “I've got to learn stuff, I've got to network, I've got to decide if I want to just be a great animator or move into art directing.”
But then when you compile that with freelance or trying to get into a place and then chasing bookings and payment, that's going to be more complicated right now. I think that the best thing I can tell people is to try to create an ad hoc mastermind group for themselves. I know there are lots of buzzwords going around, but if there's a way to try to create some sense of community, even while you're working at home; a shared group of people like you would have in an office where you build relationships...I hate the word networking, but building relationships in this day and age is so important. So that every morning you have somebody to spot check and be like, "Dude, are you a red light right now, or are you a green light? Are you feeling good? Awful?"
Ryan Summers:
What happens is, you'll talk to people online and you lose tone. People right now want to put a good spin on everything and be positive. But if you start seeing people every day or every two days, just visually looking at each other, you know when someone says something but there's something else behind what they’re saying. It's really important to start building those relationships now as freelancers.
You might be stressed out and not even realize it, but if you have somebody else who can be like, "dude, something's up. What's going on?" They can kind of push. Whereas, when you're just sitting at home in your room trying to go down and trying to get work done, it's easy to push way too fast, way too far.
Mack Garrison:
That's a really good point. I remember before starting dash, I worked for an agency for about four and a half years here in North Carolina. I don't think you realize how isolated you become. It's really interesting talking about finding that group of people and just having someone to check in on you to make sure that you're doing okay. That you're not pulling your hair out every day, because you start to lose track of time, and things blend. You're working all the time because the work is right there at home. It's a slippery slope that can get dangerous quickly if you're not cognizant of that.
I also remember some of the pains that go with freelance. What you alluded to earlier was chasing money and trying to get paid. I don't know why this industry is so challenging with that, it's still an issue. Part of it is also, as people get older, we're more cognizant of that. Making sure I don’t forget where I was as a freelancer and how frustrating it was to get paid, so not doing the same thing that other folks did to me.
Mack Garrison:
As far as just tips and tricks, what’s something that may be useful, whether it is for a studio or a freelancer when it comes to getting paid? If the client's not paying you, do you have a protocol?
Ryan Summers:
I end up using this word too much because it means different things for different scenarios. But, it's going back to that relationship. I do open office hours where people can come in to talk. A lot of times we just talk about demo reels or freelance life. I'm always surprised by how many people don’t establish relationships. For example, your first interaction with a client. When you’d walk up to someone - before COVID - you'd shake their hand. That first meeting sets the tone for the relationship going forward. I'm shocked by how many people don't have contracts or deal memos with a list of working requirements. They’ll establish the relationship almost as if they're doing a favor for a buddy versus entering into a work agreement.
So, when you start a relationship - let's say somebody wants to work at dash - you’d say, "Hey, dash wants to bring you in for freelance." The person should immediately reply with, "well, here's my deal memo. My understanding is that you're booking me for two weeks with the option of holding me for two more weeks. This is my daily rate. This is my after-hours overtime rate," with the definition of what is considered overtime. If you don't have your full understanding and expectations set up at the beginning, it's really hard to circle back and say “okay, will you promise me you are going to do this?” I'm shocked by how many people fumble the ball for themselves. Whether they're new to it, they're naive, they're intimidated, or it's a big client that they don't want to start on a bad relationship with. Treat your first interaction with anyone you may be working for or working with as a business relationship. Then, everything else is easier.
Style frame from “GOOGLE: Meet Data.” Animated by Ryan Summers.
Mack Garrison:
So, I think back to when we started dash as partners, Cory and I. We were best friends going into it. We had known each other for four and a half years and were so excited. We still went to a lawyer and got an operational agreement done. Everything was great then, but introducing a business when you're going off together in a partnership can have so many wildcards. Luckily we haven't had anything happen, but having that contract upfront is preparing you should things go south. Of course, the expectation is that it won't, but it gives you something to lean on.
Another thing, I remember being shocked that contracts were negotiable. One time our lawyer was like, "Hey, you could push back on this." And I was like, "really? I just assumed that it was boilerplate, when someone sends you the contract it is what it is."
Ryan Summers:
Absolutely. I'm so glad you say that coming from the studio-side because I think that's rare to hear. I tell people all the time, whether you're negotiating for freelance or negotiating for a staff position, 1.) Everything's negotiable, and 2.) There are a lot of things to consider; you have so many more arrows in your quiver than you realize. It's not just your day rate or your yearly salary. There are other things and tools you have at your advantage so that you're not being leveraged up. Right off the bat, in your contract, you can state that if this project doesn't work out, I would love it if you would try to book me on another job, but if you can’t find anything, release me with my kill fee. Or, it's just you let go of me immediately, so I could go find another booking.
I find so few people run into those situations, I know people who don't use the hold system. You may not get as many offers for bookings, but I know talented freelance illustrators and motion designers that would say, “book me or not, I don't want to play the hold game.” On the flip side, I know others that are like, “man, I've got three holds and none of them booked and now I'm looking at nothing on Monday. I'm going to have to eat this week. Trying to find more work.”
Mack Garrison:
That's a really good comment that you brought there. One of the things that I’d recognized when we initially started hiring freelancers outside of our internal staff, particularly down here in the South, people were just wanting to get hired or not. There wasn't a hold system. We only encountered that when we started getting involved with New York, LA, Chicago. Do you feel it’s more common in smaller or bigger markets?
Ryan Summers:
There are positives and negatives to the hold system. The big thing you have to remember as a freelancer is that you are entering into partnerships with companies that need temporary work. As much as everyone's pushing the freelance manifesto, that it is the one true way to work. It gives you so much more leverage being in temporary work-for-hire situations. When that goes away, they're never indebted to you. In my experiences, the hold system is different if you're talking about the three markets; the Midwest - Chicago for example - New York, and LA. They all have slightly different variations of the system. However, every shop seems to lightly honor it, which is again, completely informal, non-legally binding, and arbitrary.
It’s really confusing and, unfortunately, aimed more towards the person doing the hiring versus the hiree. But as I said, you don't have to follow that. If a company needs style frames done and you're an amazing artist or a great illustrator, they can book you. And maybe they only book you for two days to kind of "hold you." But they have the money to do that. They have the means. It's neat that you said you’ve never encountered it until you started pulling people.
“motionographer awards and ceremonies are not just about highlighting who is the best. they’re to show people that our work exists beyond being used as marketing material for a client.”
Mack Garrison:
Exactly. It's like it's the disparity, and the system itself highlights how broken it is. When there's no consistency and no one's operating in the same sort of game or playing field, it sheds light on the fact that it's not great. The thing that I don't like about it, which you also alluded to, is that it benefits the studio.
That's terrible, there should be more repercussions for a studio if they’re just willy-nilly throwing around someone else's schedule like that. Which is one of the reasons when we first started that we didn't operate on holds a lot. We’d just approach people when we were ready to book. Now, we come into problems with that too. If you're reaching out to someone to book them a week and a half out from when they're supposed to start, a lot of top talent will already be booked up. But the good news is, at least we started to hopefully build a reputation that when we do reach out, we’re serious about the work, it wasn't something frivolous. I think it'd be better if the whole industry started operating like that.
Style frame from “Detroiters - Main Titles.” Animated by Ryan Summers.
Ryan Summers:
As I said, these are all relationships, they need to be built around trust. As long as someone has a relationship with you and they trust you, you can accept the hold system for what it might be. But when you start dealing with a situation where a studio starts spam holding multiple people for a job that may not come because they're pitching, then there's this epidemic of getting held and released with no penalty. For the freelancers, however, there are.
The leverage is in the artist's hands. They just don't realize it. It doesn't take freelancers that much to get a hold of the client they may be working with. And we're all working with the same software, we're all working with the same hardware. If you're working in CG, you're probably putting your stuff up on the same rendering service. Now there's no real magic into how this stuff gets done anymore, other than the people. So, it's a dangerous time for studios that abuse a hold system or believe freelancers are just interchangeable cogs in the machine because the shops are going to be perceived that way pretty soon once it’s realized that the people drive it all.
Mack Garrison:
That’s a great point. And it's something that we've been having internal conversations about as well. If you look at the industry as the whole, it's pinching, right? On the top end, you have the clients that would typically go to agencies for full turnkey creative help; website, branding, motion, whatever. But now those in-house teams are getting better. They're starting to hire motion designers, ultimately they just don't need as much work. What that means is that instead of going to the agency for everything, they're going to go directly to the studio for the motion work. All of a sudden, you find studios like Dash that are now competing with smaller agencies for the same type of work.
But then as you alluded to on the bottom end, freelancers are also getting better. So now, some of the bottom projects that we still take on are being taken by freelancers. So, you're getting this tension in the industry. And to your point, I think it's okay NOW because there's plenty of work going around, but it makes you wonder what the future of this industry is going to look like. Is it the smaller studio shops and freelancers that are going to flourish? Is there a world where the bigger agencies still exist? I don't know. What are your thoughts when you think about the future of motion design?
Ryan Summers:
I'm super excited about it. I know that's a weird thing to say right now, but I think there's one additional factor to what we're talking about. A traditional, large motion design shop, especially the agencies, is not only getting attacks from the top and the bottom, but they're also getting stretched out in the middle. Because as an agency, they're full service; they do everything short of ad buying, which is kind of like the mystery box of our world. But as you said, a studio has a team full of people so that they don't have to go out to a large motion shop. They don't trust the large agencies as much as they used to, but the agencies themselves are getting gutted out from the inside. We know where peoples’ eyeballs are and we know how to attract their eyeballs in terms of commercials or whatever you may be doing. However, they don't understand social media. The landscape is changing so fast. Agencies don’t understand advertising.
Ryan Summers:
Because of the eyeball shift to streaming and social media, every six months there's a new service. TikTok is it now, it used to be YouTube. Agencies can't see bumpers, so they're losing their authority. They're getting their lunch handed to them on what used to be an easy way to make money because they don't know where to go to even advertise.
It's a really scary time for them, but it's a huge opportunity for us because we speak that language. There are a lot more people working in motion design that are closer to the target audiences and know what to make for them. So, there's an incredible opportunity to create trust now from the people making it to the people who need it. At the same time, the amount - I don't call them screens anymore - but the number of canvases available to us, is big and only getting bigger. It's going to skyrocket in the next four to five years. Places that our work is going to live and need our kind of agency, our understanding is going to just skyrocket. So I think it's an awesome, but difficult, time while we're trying to figure it out. The opportunities are huge.
“this is the one creative arts industry that I can think of where we put so much time into the work, but the amount of time that the work exists is negligible.”
Mack Garrison:
You bring a really good point on the medium and how motion design lives in the world. I think for a while it's been relatively consistent on what the programs you need to know are to generate the content. Whether it's Maya, Cinema 4D, After Effects, whatever. But we're on the precipice of all this new technology. There’s this perpetual learning that you need to do. A lot of people have preached about being good at one specific thing while the jack of all trades-type person, the generalist, is kind of dying. But I see that coming back because of all the new technology that's coming out. I think the success of a future motion designer is someone that is flexible and can be an avid, nimble learner when trying to adapt to these new things.
“there are just enough people now who've been in our industry that are either desperate for a community or they’re looking for the next step. people want to see their work recognized.”
Ryan Summers:
I agree. Motion design used to mean it was the umbrella for anything that moved, right? So it meant photography, it meant still frame, it meant videography. It meant knowing typography. It meant knowing hand skills, collage, 2D animation, 3D animation. And no one ever expected anyone to know all of those things. That's why teams were so interesting, and that's why each studio had a specific signature. You would go to Digital Kitchen because they had this very cinematographic style, but it wasn't very graphics-oriented, it was editorial. Or you’d go to Imaginary Forces for another look. Then there might be two or three studios that did high-end 3D, but they wouldn't be the people you'd go to for 2D animation. Now, everything has solidified around, “it's going to be done in After Effects, it's going to be done in Cinema 4D if it's character animation, there are two styles of character animation if it's CG, it's going to look like it came out of Red Ship.”
Having constricted to a really specific definition of animation, to now exploding back into what it used to be; where motion design is the overarching umbrella, where you can do anything to make anything move. The tools that were inaccessible in the 90s and the early 2000s now everyone has access to. Not just software, but access to cameras in a way we never had access to before. You can work with editors in a way you never used to be able to before. That's why I always talk about voice and vision being as important as your established relationships and the hardware or software that you use. That being said, I do think there's going to be a demand for people who have a specific way of seeing things or a specific way of making things look.
Mack Garrison:
That's a really good point. I've even been guilty of it myself. You get that project request that comes in and it's a certain type of client. For us, we deal with a lot of IT stuff. So it's like, okay, here are some examples of other videos that have been made, that probably fall into exactly what this should be. Right? And it's a safe play. I think what ends up happening is a cycle effect where someone comes up with a style. That style gets recycled around by everyone in the industry. People like it, so we keep pushing it forward. It's safe.
What ends up happening is when we're looking for inspiration, we tend to look only at what other videos are being made. What the top people are making right now. So limiting, right? So, there's not that much diversity in the variety of work that’s being made. Whereas I felt like to your point in the 90s when people were still experimenting, there wasn't a right way because there was so much still left to figure out. Work was constantly being evolved. That's what I am excited about with this technology growth. Hopefully, it will break us away from this reuse cycle.
Style frame from “Pokemon — BREAKTHROUGH.” Animated by Ryan Summers.
Mack Garrison:
What advice would you give for someone trying to push away from having a set style? What are some things folks should be doing to try to push that innovation?
Ryan Summers:
I think the bottom line is just allowing yourself to do it. Maybe this is me being too personal, but actively allowing yourself to realize that in this career, it's okay to be a capital-A artist. I don't think there are a lot of people who feel like they've been permitted to say that. Some people are like, "Oh, I work in cinema," or, "I'm an after effects animator." But I don't think most spend their days thinking about, "Oh, I want to say this about the world," or "I'm interested in this look that I found from this photographer from the 60s, how can I take that and work with that methodology in Redshift, or 3D?"
For example, most people in 3D right now over-light everything. It's the same thing that used to happen in early CD animation for feature films where people were like, “I have to build all this stuff, then I have to texture everything, and then I have to light it so that when I light it I need to show everything that I made, because otherwise, why would I ever have made all that stuff?” And it wasn't until someone like Roger Deacon came into feature animation and asked why everything is over-lighted? If you're doing this in a feature film, you would only put the light where you want people to look. You had only used lighting to make people feel a certain way. All of a sudden with "How To Train Your Dragon" and "Wally" and the many films after that, by bringing in real-world cinematographers, people started using the tools in a way that allowed them to portray the emotions that they wanted to express.
Ryan Summers:
That's just one example, but it was because people who were looking for software-based solutions finally allowed the art to creep back in. That's the first step to all of it, right? You talked about the echo chamber, and the inspiration paralysis right now. There's so much going on and we're all responding to the same thing. For example, I’ll ask another designer who they like, and if somebody says, "Oh man, I love Ash Thorp." I'm like, "Okay, cool. Do you know why Ash Thorp is Ash Thorp? Go back and look at the three people he was inspired by and find out who those people were working with."
Ash Thorp loves Katsuhiro Otomo, the guy who created Akira. So go find other people that inspired Otomo. He loved Stanley Kubrick. Find out who Stanley Kubrick's cinematographer was and find out who those people started with and look back. Being able to present full references that no one else has, that's liberating. That's exciting. And it gives you an advantage.
Mack Garrison:
You're touching on something that has become a bit lost; the whole research side of things. It's a constant balance between art and design. We design something for someone for a purpose...to get them to like it. At the same time, the art is an evolution of what we would like. It has been a mix of different styles, with different periods over the years. I think, as opposed to some traditional mediums where people would study various periods and have that art history knowledge to build off of, a lot of what we do is being condensed to a week, a few days, or a 24-hour period to come up with an idea for a piece.
Rather than looking back in a nontraditional way of research for what could be done or looking back at periods that can echo a client’s sentiment for something, we go to Vimeo and we look at what's on there. One of the things that we should advocate for now is more education in some of the art periods themselves. Look back in history to what you're talking about. Who are other people inspired by, what was their history, what were they inspired by about that history?
Ryan Summers:
And that's why I think, allowing yourself to say, “I'm an artist,” means that even if you did...let's say Dash gets some call tomorrow from Marvel for their next movie, like "Black Panther 2."
Mack Garrison:
Yeah, sign me up.
Ryan Summers:
Sure. Right? But the problem is you have to have the pitch in by Friday. Or, let's say Monday because we have a weekend. If you aren't thinking like an artist and you don't have interests outside of motion design, the only thing you can do in that amount of time is two things. Either A, "What do I know that the software can give me right now and solve for that?" Or B, "What do I know everybody else is doing that I know somebody else has made so I can figure out how to do it? And let's do a variant of that.”
Ryan Summers:
But if you’re thinking as an artist, the time that you've spent to create a pitch, the time needed to show what you're inspired by, isn't based on the time you're given when initially assigned the project. It's based on how long you’ve spent thinking for the last seven years about things that interest you; things that you love, things that you don't know anything about but catch your eye. So if you think as an artist, you're always thinking about these things. Even if you are only given a two-day turnaround, the artist who was like, "You know what, I love macro photography, but I also love textiles and fashion. And you know what else? There's something interesting about AR in terms of how people interact with technology."
So, all of a sudden when a client says, "We need a teacher that looks like it's influenced by alien technology and we need it in two days," you have a wealth of ideas to pull from. Allow yourself to be an artist. All commercial artists still have personal projects that they want to do, and that's what feeds into the work they do when hired by others. Then, the for-hire work hopefully gives them enough money and time to be able to go and reinvest that back into a personal project. We've been so detached from that. People are being taught that deeming yourself an artist or saying that you have personal projects, is like a dirty word. You're being selfish or you're taking money away from your company and I believe that couldn't be further from the truth.
“the bottom line is just allowing yourself to do it...actively allowing yourself to realize that in this career, it's okay to be a capital-A artist.”
Mack Garrison:
Oh, I love it. That's a great description. I think we've lost a little bit of that art form. Or it's been commercialized to the point where you're just doing internal art projects that look good for the brand. So you're starting to cater your art to the masses as opposed to just experimenting and trying new things. All the while building that library of knowledge in the back of your head.
To change the subject, one of the things we talked about in the very beginning was moving into freelance, the importance of community, and finding a group of people. With you doing School of Motion, I know you will echo the sentiment on how great and connected our industry is. We're both fortunate to have found ourselves in an industry that's so welcoming and helpful. Do you think that's one of the reasons why festivals have started?
Ryan Summers:
I think it's a direct reaction to all the stuff we've talked about. This has been a nascent industry that is finally starting to grow up. I asked at Camp MoGraph, "Who feels like an impostor?" Everyone raised their hand and I said, "That's cool. That's a good thing because none of us have made it through an entire career arc yet. We're all imposters. We're all trying to figure it out." There are just enough people now who've been in our industry that are either desperate for a community or they’re looking for the next step. People want to see their work recognized, right?
This is the one creative arts industry that I can think of where we put so much time into the work, but the amount of time that the work exists is negligible. We make stuff that is so difficult to make in such a short amount of time, in really inventive ways, yet we throw the pipeline away and start all over again on the next one. It's sad to think about. And every other creative arts industry recognizes the work being done in such a special way.
Ryan Summers:
Motionographer awards and ceremonies, for me, are not just about highlighting who is the best. They’re to show people that our work exists beyond being used as marketing material for a client. The systemic nature of our work causes a lot of the awful psychological problems we've started to see. People are burnt out, scared. People don't know what to do next. They’re leaving the industry because they don't feel fulfilled. I think having award shows and the awards themselves aren't that important, but the byproduct of them is. Even more important is the festivals, where people are getting together and we're not talking about software or how to make the next hot look. We're talking about what it's like to be in an industry working together as artists. That's what's awesome.
Mack Garrison:
You hit it on the head there. When we had the idea of doing the dash bash, a lot of that originated from those early conferences we went to and how enjoyable it was to meet people in the industry that are exactly like you. Blend did their first conference about a month after we started Dash. When we went, there were all these superstars that we looked up to. For us, man, these were our heroes, these were the people we wanted to be like. All of a sudden we got to recognize that they're just people like ourselves. You can go up and have these great conversations.
That's the biggest thing that I tell people. When they go to these conferences, whether it's the Dash Bash or anything else, don't go in there and just be handing out business cards. Get to know people, become their friends. Ultimately, people want to work with who they like, right? So if you have these great friendships, then naturally the work is going to come from them. Take the time to just hang out and connect in what can sometimes be a very solitary industry.
Ryan Summers:
I always say I hate the phrase networking because I don't think it’s accurate. When you go to those things, you're making friends; you're finding community. Like-minded people. Maybe you're looking for a mentor? And that's what I love about Dash. It reminds me of when I hear stories from the people who went to the first couple of Comic-Cons for the comic book industry when it was just in a basement of a hotel somewhere. It was so cool to sit and just talk to other people who settled in at a drawing table. Right? Just slaving away at comic book pages.
Mack Garrison:
We're all just in it together. Trying to figure it out. I love it. That's a really good point to end on. Let me ask you this. Have you given any more thought to the workshop itself? Anything you want to tease the public with?
Ryan Summers:
Absolutely. I get asked all the time by people about what their next steps should be, and a lot of times people think they want to be an art director, or they ask how to become a creative director. A lot of times it's surprising what that job entails. It can be very divorced from all the work you've done up until the point you asked that question. Just because you're an amazing animator, it seems like people get pushed into the direction of an art director. But you don't end up animating all that much. I hope to be able to create some type of environment where people can start to understand what it means to be an art or creative director; an interactive slice-of-life insight. So that's my tea.
Style frame from “Jump the Line - Starbucks.” Animated by Ryan Summers.
Mack Garrison:
Awesome, man. I'm excited about it. I'm going to be in attendance with my notepad out taking notes.
Ryan Summers:
Awesome. It's very cool. Very cool.
Mack Garrison:
Thank you so much for taking the time. I know with everything going on, everyone working from home, I appreciate it. This has just been a blast, just catching up a little. We’ve got to do this more often.
“...there's no real magic into how this stuff gets done anymore, other than the people.”
Ryan Summers:
Definitely, man. Thanks so much for reaching out. And I'm super excited. All this stuff will get itself figured out by September, for sure. I think it's going to get a little worse than it is right now, and it's going to be a little weird because we're not used to it. But if everybody's taking it as seriously as it seems like it is, I think we'll be okay.
Mack Garrison:
I know man. I feel the same way. Be smart right now so it's not a problem later on.
Ryan Summers:
Will do. I appreciate it. Thanks for calling.
Mack Garrison:
Yeah, absolutely, Ryan. Talk soon, man. Stay safe. Don't touch anything.
Ryan Summers:
Yeah. You too. Take it easy. Bye.
Discussing the Evolution of the Animation Industry with TJ Kearney
We sat down with TJ Kearney, Global Director of Content at Work & Co. and former founding partner of oddfellows, to speak on the debate of being a generalist vs specialist, the growing importance of social media, and more!
Q&A with TJ Kearney
Read time: 20min
Mack Garrison:
I advise others, but I also need to listen to it myself. I was talking to someone the other day, a student, about how whatever you put up on your website is what people will ultimately hire you for. Advertise what it is you want to do. dash has done a really good job of defining a style that we're good at; colorful vector, snappy, bubbly-type animation. The problem is, we've started to notice that that's the only recurring work we're getting from people, but we can do a lot more.
So, one of our goals this year is to push into creating stuff that feels different than what's already on our portfolio. To try to say, "Hey look, yeah, we can knock this explainer video out of the park for you, but here are some other things that we can do as well."
TJ Kearney:
You and I were talking about this the other day. It doesn't matter how talented your studio is, even if you have crazy stuff on your reel that brought the client to you in the first place. They can still reach a point where they say, "Well, have you done this exact thing? Have you done animated food?" And you're like, "Of course I can do that, but I don't have it in my reel." That can be a deal-breaker. Sometimes people want to see that one exact thing.
As you said, you have this one style, so clients are only seeing that one style. We ran into that when I had a studio. We started only doing 3D, eventually, we started hiring cel animators. Suddenly, we couldn't win any 3D work because we had nothing to show. It’s something important to think about as you're curating; what you're putting out into the world. Make sure it's leading to the next thing, rather than just showing what you've already done in the past.
Mack Garrison:
How'd y'all get out of that? Was it just that emphasis and focus on creating new work that showed you could do a more diverse style?
TJ Kearney:
It was a mixture. In the beginning, we’d sneak it in wherever we could, even if it wasn't a part of what the client asked for. Then, a lot of it came down to personal projects and putting up work that aligned with what we wanted to do. I also think it was a result of how we built our staff.
We were 3D heavy in the beginning, but as we grew our staff, we started adding people that augmented that team and added to it. As a result, our aesthetic changed, and the work we started putting out reflected that. But then we almost went too far in the other direction where it's like, "Okay, well now we haven't touched 3D in six months plus, so now it's harder for us to sell in 3D." That's fine if you don't want to be doing that, but if you want to have a diverse range, then you have to be continually updating the work while making sure that you have a consistent flow of multiple types of work so that people can see what you’re capable of.
“it’s something important to think about as you're curating: what you're putting out into the world. make sure it's leading to the next thing, rather than just showing what you've already done in the past.”
Mack Garrison:
I've been surprised how much social media has started to influence our projects and the work we're landing. You mentioned posting little personal pieces or side projects to show what you're capable of doing. I feel we've been focused on just putting a lot of stuff out on social media for exposure within our communities so that people know who we are. It's impacted a lot of the clientele that follow us.
I can't tell you how many times I've gotten calls that have been like, "Oh, I saw this post that you guys put out the other day. It looks like it's the perfect fit for this project that we're working on. You want to talk about it?" I never thought that social media would have pivoted to a point where it has such a direct impact on our work.
TJ Kearney:
I try to keep in mind that the people who’re hiring you more often than not are the art and design directors. They're always pulling you for reference, and not necessarily just you, but also pulling from socials. Years ago, your only options were to go to a rep and see what the rep presented to you. Go to Motionographer. Go to Stash. Go to these places that were highlighting a select few. Now, the middleman has been cut out of that whole scenario. Art directors are looking at Instagram just as much as anybody else, and they're the target.
The trap there and the thing I get worried about is the pressure to constantly update your socials. What ends up happening is you put out a bunch of work more frequently, and it's not as high a caliber as it used to be. However, I lean more towards consistently updating while not feeling the pressure that you have to put something on every day or even every week. Once or twice a quarter is fine. Make sure you have a presence out there, but also make sure what you're putting out is differentiating you because of its higher quality.
Mack Garrison:
I feel the same trap of assimilating into a particular style. Things get saturated, as far as where people are trying to find inspiration. Work starts to look similar. You have a couple of big players that come out with something that looks relatively unique, then, all of a sudden, you get a million copycats that push in that direction. As an industry, that's one area that we can improve; pushing new avenues. Though, I do feel motion design is one of the few areas bridging this gap between all of the different fields. You have new technology coming out; people coming into it who have a background in code, graphic design, illustrators, designers. It's a hodgepodge of people that get into this field.
TJ Kearney:
That ties back to the social media posting everyone’s pulling from. You've got two or three different routes; you’ve got direct-to-client work, working with an agency involved as a middleman between you, or, you're working with a studio that you're running everything for them. You run into issues less with that third one. The other two have art directors that have been selling through to the client. Even if they're internal, they’ve been selling an aesthetic before you even get to the table. They've had weeks or months worth of conversations to get the budget unlocked. Usually, they’ve been pulling the same work that everybody else is. By that time, their higher-ups are already expecting something to look a certain way and it becomes that much harder for you to push.
Unfortunately, some of that gets taken out of your hands at the studio. A lot falls on your client relations; getting yourself up the food chain so that you're having that conversation early on before things are locked in. I think that this is where it gets interesting. Right? You've got studios - Golden Wolf is a great example - where they have an aesthetic and a theme. You know what you're buying into. Then, you have some more diverse studios. That's where you’ll get a broader spectrum to get hired. At the same time, they may come to you with a very clear direction before you even get your chance to put your stamp on it.
“25th Anniversary” — Cartoon Network
Mack Garrison:
100%. Even just saying, "Golden Wolf," everyone reading will picture exactly what that style of work is. I'm sure it's the same deal for the clients who want to hire them. It's like, "Well, we know we can get diversity in what we want our final project to be, but, in general, we want it to be in this style. So let's go to the best of the best who does that."
On the flip side, if you're more of a generalist, you might not be the go-to studio to do that. Ultimately, it depends on how you want to position yourself in the market. I'm curious about your take on this as well. Now’s the time if you’re a specialist. Be good at something, get hired for being the best at that. But, if you're looking for more long-term security in the industry, I think being a generalist makes more sense. It gives you ultimate flexibility while allowing you to pivot with new trends and technology. Do you have a thought on which is better?
TJ Kearney:
I think better is an interesting term. It comes down to your individual goals, whether at a studio or as a freelancer. Either is a gamble. If you're a generalist, you're probably not going to make as much due to your wide spectrum. The good thing is that you're going to get volume, so you'll have more opportunities come to you. But I wouldn't be surprised if the budgets go up. Right?
Instead, when you start to see the budgets go up, that’s when you have a hyper-focused type of team or individual. You especially see this in illustration where you’ll have an illustrator who's popular and has a distinct style. They could be three times the price of any other illustrator, but the client wants that one style. So, they're going to invest in the more expensive person. The problem is, you're waiting for clients who want that one thing or that one look. The phone will ring a little less frequently when you're that specialized, but you can charge a premium for it. That's all well and good when times are really good…
Mack Garrison:
...when that style's really in.
TJ Kearney:
That's the thing, it has a time limit. That style's not going to be in for the entirety of anyone's career. For that reason, I think being a generalist is safer. For freelancers, it comes down to where you want to work. If you just want to make sure you're making a paycheck, or you want to work at agencies, being a generalist makes a lot of sense. They’re going to have you work on tons of different types of work. If you want to work at a studio, most studios are looking for hyper-focused individuals. They have a need. They're trying to augment or add to their team. So many animators that are coming out of school right now, if you want to get into a studio, you have to differentiate yourself. It comes down to the individual's goals; depending on what you want, where you want to end up, and consistency versus quality. Those are the decision-makers for where you put your energy.
“it comes down to the individual's goals; depending on what you want, where you want to end up, and consistency versus quality. those are the decision-makers for where you put your energy.”
Mack Garrison:
That's a really interesting take on it. Using them as a continued example, I think about Golden Wolf. The type of person that would go there is very specific. On the other hand, I think about all of the random projects that come in the door. For some, it's more beneficial to have people with a multitude of skill sets. We may have someone working in pre-production who’ll then be animating the next day. Or, maybe they're conceptualizing some stuff. Having people that are versatile and can hop around is helpful, but maybe you don’t necessarily need to be versatile in a bunch of different styles, but versatile on how you take that style and apply it to different areas of the process. Whereas, in an agency, you may be more involved in all different areas, a studio you might be more specific.
Let me ask you this, TJ, let's say you're starting a studio. You open it up. ‘TJ Kearney R Us,’ or whatever it's called. How do you think you would approach it? Would you do anything differently? Would you be hyper-focused? More of a generalist?
TJ Kearney:
A few things, I would not hire based on skill set, but based on personalities. I’d build a team that works well together with skills that benefit one another. Then, I would learn to sell around that. What I've learned throughout my career is people buy into hyper-focused and well-running machines. Anyone, any client can go hire an animator. They do all the time. So, why do they need you?
You've built a unit, a team, that works so well together that they pump out work at a higher caliber than any freelancers or group they could bring in. That's the difference. When I first started, there were really big egos and a lot of assholes in the industry, to be honest. People could get away with that because they were buying into the fact that there were only a handful of people that could do the work. So, there were a few people that made a ton of money. They could treat their assistants like crap and get away with it because they were the only ones that could do it.
“Great Sleep” — Casper
TJ Kearney:
Let's be honest, we have an oversaturated market of talent. There are so many kids graduating, young talent coming out that's affordable. But, that only gets you so far. It's the teams that work well together and are going to make something better than any thrown together team can.
What I've learned the most out of all the companies I've worked with, is the importance of finding what you're good at, focusing on it, and becoming a leader in it. That means, for the most part, that you don't pivot, but when you do, you go all in. Those are the biggest things; team personality and makeup, finding what you're good at, making sure you stand out, and even if you take on and you are diverse within the walls of your studio don't sell yourself as a bunch of different things.
Mack Garrison:
I love where this conversation is going. Sometimes with direct to client projects, a lot of the clients are used to working with agencies. They're used to working with groups that have more capabilities than what a studio might offer. But the industry is shifting and some of these bigger companies are gaining in-house teams. Despite that, clients don't necessarily have the need for a big turnkey agency. They want to go to a studio for their animation needs, however, they're still wanting more of what they've gotten from an agency. Of course, it's just like a cheaper price because you're coming to a studio.
It's really important not to water down your focus and to be good at one thing, you know? As soon as you start to become too broad - you start doing media buys or try to become the motion studio that transitions into an agency - you’ll start falling short on promises and what you do well. Off that same line, aside from bringing in creative roles, what are some other roles you think are crucial that motion studios out there might overlook?
TJ Kearney:
I'm going to be biased to producers. I'm a producer.
Mack Garrison:
Right.
TJ Kearney:
There are a lot of studios that started with just creative, that's the biggest mistake. You need a strong producer that can handle tough conversations with clients, lawyers, and accountants. Especially when you're a small company. The reality is, you're not going to have an HR department. So they've got to fill in as HR and office management as well. They wear all these different hats. That's step one.
Step two...having a partner. You don't necessarily need to hire in-house accountants or anything like that, but having a financial partner that can guide you is something that's often overlooked. Also, lawyers are really important partners to have on hand. Then when it comes to augmenting your staff, I would focus on writers and developers. Having developer partners is going to open up the doors for a lot of where the industry's headed next. When I was starting, everything was television. TV and cinema then started evolving into digital and the web. We’ve had this golden period of making a bunch of online how-to and intro videos, but we're seeing those budgets get cut in half. Right? Now, we're trying to figure out how to get scrappy. But rather than fighting each other over the scraps at the end, why don't we focus on what's next?
Mack Garrison:
That’s a good point.
“what I've learned the most out of all the companies I've worked with is the importance of finding what you're good at. focusing on it, and becoming a leader in it.”
TJ Kearney:
That and media buying have been my focus. Most studios don't, but I think it is really important. Here at Work & Co, I have a content team, development team, and our design team. Also, a company that we purchased, called AKDM that does all the media planning and buying.
Mack Garrison:
You know, I think there's tension in the industry. Bigger agencies are getting smaller. You have freelancers who are becoming more capable. Kids are coming out of school who are doing phenomenal stuff. So, the industry is kind of pitching. What used to be brought into work for the studio is now getting taken away by freelancers and some of the top-tier studios are now taking work away from some of those agencies. There's going to be a lot more partnerships starting to happen. Because branding is going to be a really important element of this, but so is systemizing the motion.
We had a piece we worked on with a brand agency called New Kine, they needed us to come in and help with the video. So, it became like a partnership, we were brought into the conversations. It was all transparent, and in the end, we went our separate ways. They were able to deliver on a client's needs without having to take on the overhead or manage something that was out of their wheelhouse. I think there's going to be a lot more of that, particularly as shops become smaller while trying to be a little more nimble.
TJ Kearney:
I think you hit something important there. A partnership has to be a partnership, not a vendor relationship. When that branding studio brought you to the table, it was about both going to conversations together. When you're building these relationships, I wouldn't wait until the need arises. Then, you're scrambling. Instead, I would get ahead of it and build those relations now so that when the opportunity comes up, you're already fluid. You're used to working together and you know how it's going to work.
Mack Garrison:
That's a great analogy. That preparedness, thinking ahead is the biggest thing. It's easy to get caught up, especially when you're busy with projects that you're hyper-focused on. One of the things that I've learned from running the studio is that you have to be looking ahead; what projects are coming in, your revenue stream, is there going to be slower months? All are imperative and are examples of why having good management is so important.
What might be a good thing to speak on is the producer role. For myself, my role is pretty blended. I'm a producer, a creative director, an accountant, and I'm also writing company. It's all over the place, but a true producer role. What are the expectations of a producer?
TJ Kearney:
The true role of a producer varies by their level and specific title, right? You have junior producers, studio producers, broadcast producers, and digital producers. You also have senior and finally executive producers. Everybody has their different title. At a junior producer level, you're learning on the job. My expectations are you’re taking notes in the meetings, you’re checking in and making sure the shots are getting done on time while also reporting back. This will vary depending on the size of the company.
Standard producers can handle one to two projects by themselves. They escalate things to the executive producer and are the bad guys when needed. They're always going to have their scopes vetted by a senior or an executive producer before they go out. But I’d expect to be able to hand them a project and run the day to day and make sure it gets done.
TJ Kearney:
Senior producers are going to do all that, plus be able to handle multiple projects at a time at a full load. All the while, mentoring the younger producers. Finally, you've got your executive producers. In my mind, they’re the parents of the studio or team. Their job is to build that team to deal with inner conflict, make sure to find opportunities to grow staff members, and ultimately looking ahead to ensure there's work every day for that team; planning for the next quarter, making sure the work that's going out is leading to the company goal and creating opportunities that lead to the type of work that the studio wants to stand for. They're the ones that are going to be having the tough financial conversation. They're the ones that are going to have to deal with someone getting let go. All of those heavier situations.
“29 Rooms” — Refinery29
Mack Garrison:
There's not always a right answer for something. Sometimes a new request comes in that you’ve never dealt with one before. When you get situations like that, what's your solution strategy? For unprecedented situations, how would you advise some younger producers?
TJ Kearney:
When I started, I was frustrated. I was always told this industry is about who you know, and I didn't know anybody. I worried about breaking and making those connections. The hardest part when you're a young producer is realizing that producing comes with time. There's nothing you can do about it. You have to work your way through a bunch of different projects to start understanding what's needed, what unforeseen things to anticipate. That knowledge only comes with repetition and experience.
Another thing, every team you work with is different. A lot of times you'll see a producer who's like, “well, I had this team that was able to do this in two weeks.” Your new staff may take four weeks to do the same task. So, it's about knowing who your team is, what they can do, and how well they can do it.
Mack Garrison:
When you're a producer, you're talking about experience and how you need to build experience to make decisions. For someone who's up and coming, particularly maybe if you're the sole producer at a studio full of creatives, you may not have a mentor. How do you make tough decisions when you feel like there's nothing that you can back it up against? Is there a methodology you do in this situation?
TJ Kearney:
Getting back to what I was saying before about not knowing anyone, build a network that you can bounce ideas off of. They don't have to work at your studio. We all are guessing. It's the Wild West. Everyone's just making it up. The rate of what something costs is whatever you can get away with at the end of the day. So, it's tough to say, “here's the set of rules to use for producing,” because they don't exist. My whole career, I haven't had to deal with print. So, when I have a print ask, I have producers I can reach out to with that background. They help guide me. The misnomer that a producer should know everything isn’t possible.
Mack Garrison:
It's great to hear you say that. I think about when I was first getting into animation and motion design, I was a junior animator. As you get older, you gain more experience and realize that, to your point, no one in the game knows what they're doing. Everyone's just figuring it out. Once you conclude, it gives you the confidence to handle difficult situations consistently. The biggest thing that I've learned is whatever decision you make, make it, learn from it and be consistent with how you approach that in the future.
TJ Kearney:
Exactly. The difference between a junior producer and somebody seasoned, is a junior producer tends to fake it till they make it, pretend like they have all the answers when they don't know what they're talking about and do it as tight of a budget as they think they can get away with; all the things that bite you in the ass. Every one of them.
When you're a seasoned producer, you've got nothing to lose. Your job is pretty secure because you're a very senior person in this industry. So when you're at that level, you're able to say like, I don't fucking know and that's okay. I’ve made a fool of myself several times by just pretending I knew what I was talking about. When you're more senior, you don't sweat it. You say I need more time. You say I need to ask some questions first. I'll get back to you. You pad your budgets because you know that whatever you think it's going to take, it's going to take more than that.
“a partnership has to be a partnership. not a vendor relationship.”
Mack Garrison:
That's so accurate. It’s all about learning from experiences, which might be a good segue to a question for you. Are there any key moments of mistakes that have stuck with you?
TJ Kearney:
There are a few. At my very first job as a producer, I was working in visual effects and finishing house. We were finishing spots, big national broadcast spots, and stuff. We had to get ISCI codes so that we could play everything. ISCI codes are becoming rare, but at the time I had no idea what the fuck ISCI code was. I was too embarrassed to ask anyone though. Then, I did a Google search for ISCI and saw some definition of it as a password. I just went in, really confidently, to the client. I was like, "Yeah, let's set that password." They were like, "What are you talking about? That's not what an ISCI..." The client had to teach me what was in the room. You’re better off asking upfront, than being embarrassed after the fact.
Also, early on, my scopes were light, especially in assumptions. Remember, just because a client may have had animated thoughts before, doesn't mean they know what it takes to do what we do. I’d say, "We'll deliver you a spot, it'll be 60 seconds." That's about it. What I didn't build in back then was, "This is the style that we're locking in on." Or, "This is the round of reviews." A costly one for me was a really big tech job early on. We were supposed to run, around eight to ten weeks. In the end, it ran for eight months.
Mack Garrison:
Oh, wow.
TJ Kearney:
The client was frustrated, they felt the scope was deliverable space and we hadn't delivered against what they were requesting. I felt it was time and material space, but the scope was too loose to prove either of us right. Just made this uncomfortable situation. Do all the tough conversations before you get started. Make sure your contract is buttoned up. Make sure you've thought of every possible left turn that's going to come along the way, that it's written into your scope so that when it comes, no one's caught off guard, which happens a lot.
Mack Garrison:
That has to be a universal mistake. I'm cringing a bit because I look at what our SOWs were when we first started. What we send now is drastically different. I was guilty of the one line, "Here's the price, here are some references." I'll break things out line by line, to even storyboard style frames, keyframes, animatics to show the process, and what we're building into that. Laying out review times, because even with the best intentions, something always comes up. You just want to make sure that when there is an issue, you have a roadmap on how to handle it.
TJ Kearney:
It's brutal. Important things that get left out there are about breaking things down for granular. For me, I set out the ideal review cadence that I'm anticipating for the whole project within the contract itself, including how many hours the client has to respond with feedback before the change order kicks in. What I get asked a lot by younger producers is, "We're still only doing the number of reviews that we agreed to in our contract, but the client's taking a week to get back to us every round, and we're losing all this time." If you haven't built that into your contract, you screwed yourself.
Mack Garrison:
Right. Particularly on those event-driven deadlines, it's contingent on them responding. That's lost production.
When we first started the company, I remember reading books. Gino Whitman had this book, “Traction.” It spoke about systems and organization, as a creative, I didn’t think it was for us. I turned an eye towards having stock prices or systems for how we quote things out. But, the more I've grown in my position, the more that I've learned to like systems. They create an efficient machine. What are your thoughts on systemizing? Is it good or does it take away from the quality?
TJ Kearney:
I see two sides of that coin. I can tell you what I do now. I have boilerplate signs that are four different tiers of projects. If we need to turn out something quickly, we already have a keynote built that says, "Here are some examples of that style. Here are the deliverables that typically come with that style." Then, I give ranges. I won't get granular at that point, it's more like, "Okay well, that type of project typically costs $xx." Whatever it ended up being, you should anticipate the project will be between $xx and $xx. That's a variance in price there, comes down to music, video licensing types of things, or how intricate we get with the animation. We have a range there, to where we can scale back if this budget's the issue, or we can scale up if quality is the goal. From there, I try to use those to present what their feedback is and what they're reacting to. But, you don't want to pigeonhole yourself; presenting references the same, limiting your team. You could just fall into a pattern of repetition which is problematic in itself. By keeping everything a little more bespoke, you leave the door open to other styles and opportunities.
The other benefit to systematizing is consistency. The last agency I was at, every bid that went out was wildly different. The rates were different. Even if the ask was the same, depending on which team you were working with, or which producer happened to do that scope, you would get back different rates. That isn't so much a concern when you're a small studio, but as you get bigger, that's problematic. You don't want one client coming to you multiple times with the same ask and getting three completely different rates, it makes you look unprofessional.
“Video Awareness” — Twitter
TJ Kearney:
By systematizing things, as you grow and you add producers to your team, you're ensuring everything that comes out of your studio is consistent.
Mack Garrison:
That’s accurate. I think back to what we were charging when we first started, we're four times those rates now. Partly because, initially, you're like, "I don't want to go under." But being confident to say "No" to projects that you know aren't the right fit, that was hard. Knowing you had the time to take on the project, but it just wasn't quite enough money. One thing we found helpful was to have a baseline retainer. That was a pivoting point, maybe a year or two, where I started to think we could start to push to do what we wanted to do. Do you feel the same way? Does every studio or agency need some sort of retainer model? It seems like a good safety net to have.
TJ Kearney:
Yeah. Like anything else, there are pros and cons. The trap with the downside to a retainer system is the perception, "The client owns you," at that point, right? I’ve seen where the expectation on the client's side is like, "Well, you're part of our staff now. If our staff works overtime, you better be ready to turn on, work nights and weekends for us." I would be very hesitant to fall into that trap, but that said, your company is going to be far more stable with retainers than it is without them because you can start to plan out the year.
I see this all the time, where a studio ramps up when they're busy, then all of a sudden they've got a bunch of people sitting around with nothing to put them on. I think that retainers are scary to a lot of people because they have no idea how they're structured or how to negotiate them. It starts to be a more viable option, as you become established and build a rapport with a specific client.
“The Junebugs” — Produced by TJ Kearney
Mack Garrison:
Well, that's a really good point.
I'm looking forward to having you down here in October. You’ll love my hometown, we’ll be getting y'all some barbecue.
TJ Kearney:
I'm excited, man. Thanks a lot.
Mack Garrison:
Great catching up, and enjoy the weekend, dude. I'll talk to you soon.
Takeover Tuesday with Jordan McBarnett
Q&A with Jordan McBarnett: a Trini-American sophomore at Ringling College of Art and Design currently studying Motion Design.
Q&A with Jordan McBarnett
Read time: 5min
“Calvin Harris Poster” | Jordan McBarnett
Madison Caprara:
Hey, Jordan!
Why don’t you give us a little introduction to yourself and your work? How did you initially get into Motion Design?
Jordan McBarnett:
Yo, what’s up Dash? Thank you for having me be a part of this, I am super honored! Well, my name is Jordan and I am a rising junior studying Motion Design and minoring in Business of Art and Design. I love to challenge myself with learning new things and push myself to become the best designer and creative I can be.
I was a LEGO fanatic who was into design and photography in middle and high school. I created LEGO Stop Motion Animation Videos (aka Brickfilms) on my YouTube Channel since I was 13 years old. I actually discovered Motion Design through Joash Berkeley, who is now the Creative Director of Eido and one of my inspirations. My father and I reached out to him so that we could learn more about the medium when I was in high school. After talking to Joash, I was hooked and knew I wanted to get into the Motion Design industry. Thank you, Joash for everything!
Madison Caprara:
I see that you go to Ringling! Taking into account the ever-present debate of pursuing a formal education, how has your experience been?
Jordan McBarnett:
Oh trust me, I have debated myself going to an art school ever since high school. Studying at Ringling College has been pretty amazing and inspiring. The teachers here are all very dedicated to our improvement and success. My peers and Motion buds are so uplifting and talented as well. I believe that if I didn’t go to Ringling, I wouldn’t have known half as much as I know now about animation, design, professionalism, or even composition and storytelling; everything at Ringling is very useful. Because of simply attending Ringling, I have had a much better opportunity to communicate with outside professionals and successful alumni in the industry due to the “name” that Ringling has!
I truly believe that to be successful at any medium, you do not NEED to pursue a formal education. However, it is fantastic for connecting to people in the industry. You just have to take the initiative to make those connections become a reality.
Madison Caprara:
100% agree, sometimes interpersonal skills are more difficult to learn than technical skills.
Pivoting off of that, is there anything you feel that you have experienced or learned so far that you wouldn’t have been able to gain from anywhere other than Ringling, or a university in general?
Jordan McBarnett:
Hell ya!
Again, the connections were a huge part of Ringling I have experienced while attending the college. Also, I have definitely learned more about storytelling and pacing to properly communicate your idea! There’s this one class called Concept that has been super helpful that isn’t found at any other college except for Ringling. It has been very effective in turning my ideas into coherent designs and animations.
Madison Caprara:
The world has pretty much been flipped upside down with this pandemic. Out of all the communities that I feel have been impacted the most, students are definitely up there.
For me, consistency is key. What’s your daily routine looking like these days? In which part of the day do you feel most productive?
Jordan McBarnett:
I normally start off waking up at 8 AM and fix myself a light breakfast before my morning workout, usually followed by reading 10 pages of my book. After eating a high protein, whole grain lunch, I either work on freelance opportunities or my part-time job, depending on the day of the week. At night, I spend time with my family till about 8 PM and do more of my personal work till midnight. I find that I am most productive in the evenings and at night.
Madison Caprara:
Nice! I love hearing about other people’s productivity schedules. It’s always interesting to see how different our brains thrive.
Moving on, Is there a singular type of design or style you see yourself gravitating to most? If yes, why?
Jordan McBarnett:
I gravitate more towards 3D Design and Animation as of right now. I just love the ease of using Cinema 4D and the complexity of Redshift. I’m finding supplies to build my computer to optimize my ability to create more beautiful designs and animations in Cinema 4D.
Madison Caprara:
Aside from creating them for enjoyment, what are some benefits you feel you gain from personal projects outside of your client work?
Jordan McBarnett:
Although personal projects are super fun within themselves, doing a personal project helps me learn more about a certain program in general, and helps me develop and finesse my style overall!
Madison Caprara:
What has been one of your favorites?
Jordan McBarnett:
I normally don’t have a project that I gravitate towards. But to give you an answer, the project that I had the most fun with was my Mango piece. If you were to ask me what was the meaning behind this animation, I wouldn’t know the answer! I just wanted to create a piece that made me smile.
Madison Caprara:
What are some hobbies outside of design that you do to decompress?
Jordan McBarnett:
I am a gym addict and love to work out at least five times a week! I also love to eat healthily and take care of my mental health by meditating and reading inspiring books. Particularly ones where I can learn about finance, business, mental health, or human nature. On the weekends, I mess around with my guitar and spend time at the movies.
Madison Caprara:
Where do you go for inspiration?
Jordan McBarnett:
Inspiration can be found anywhere, even right under your nose. I try to not overthink my ideas and go with the one on top of my head. If I am in a mental rut, I’ll usually go on a run outside or meditate to calm my nerves.
“ODDCOL TITLES” | Jordan McBarnett
Madison Caprara:
Wrapping up, do you have any closing advice, points, or statements you would like to share?
Jordan McBarnett:
Yes! I believe that you should always get out of your comfort zone and try new things, mentally and physically, even if it seems very scary or uncertain at first. A life full of comfort is no way to live and can get very unfulfilling and boring; you only have so much time to spend, never waste a second away. Finally, never limit yourself and your views; when you grow and improve as a person, your work, ambitions, and relationships in life will also drastically improve.
Takeover Tuesday with Josh Edwards
Q&A with Josh Edwards: a motion graphics designer based along the Sunshine Coast in Australia.
Q&A with Josh Edwards
Read time: 10min
“Personal Branding” | Josh Edwards
Madison Caprara:
Hey, Josh!
Why don’t you start off by introducing yourself and giving us a bit of background on how you got into the MoGraph world.
Josh Edwards:
G’day, (I’ve got to say that right?) I’m Josh Edwards and I’m a freelance Motion Graphics Designer based along the Sunshine Coast in Australia. I'm also a husband and dad to three rad little humans.
My road into motion graphics I suppose was pretty typical. As a kid, I always loved to draw and in high school, my older sister told me about graphic design. She thought it would be right up my alley. So I checked it out at a university open day and knew right away that it was what I wanted to do. I didn't so much like the idea of being a struggling artist, so commercial art seemed perfect. I got to the end of my third year and had the thought that I was making all of these static designs and images, but how much cooler would it be if they moved? So I decided to teach myself After Effects for part of my final project. That then landed me my first job outside of Uni as a Junior Motion Graphics Designer.
Madison Caprara:
You definitely had to throw in the stereotypical g’day!
So, after University, at some point, you ended up as an Art Director at BUCK Sydney. I understand you’re no longer with them. How has the transition been from that to remote freelance work?
Josh Edwards:
Definitely a gradual one! I absolutely loved being an Art director at BUCK, they are seriously the most talented and awesome people. It’s the best job I’ve ever had. But between my wife and kids (I had two then, three now), and the cost of living combined with big hours in Sydney, it just wasn't sustainable for us, especially with no family close by. It was a really tough decision, but we decided to move up north to where my wife’s family is. BUCK was awesome about it and I stayed on staff for about a year, mostly working with the NY office on c4d jobs. I then naturally just shifted into freelancing, since I was already working remotely and working across multiple offices.
Madison Caprara:
Makes sense, it’s awesome they accommodated for a bit. You don’t see that very often.
Did the pandemic play any role in your decision to transition?
“Our Heroes Fight Monsters” | Josh Edwards
Josh Edwards:
For the most part, you hear stories of how much COVID has disrupted work/life. But for me honestly, not a whole lot changed. I’m very fortunate to live in a place where they managed to almost eliminate the spread, and I had already been working remotely for over a year. It just so happened that the pandemic shifted everyone else in the industry quickly over to what I was already doing. We did have a baby girl literally days before lockdown, being able to work from home and enjoy so much time with her has been a great gift.
Madison Caprara:
Congratulations! My sister also had a baby mid-pandemic. She VERY much valued the extra time in his early months.
So, freelance was a great move for you, is there anything you miss about being a part of a larger company though?
Josh Edwards:
Friends and community for sure. I’m a natural recluse, so I'm quite comfortable doing my thing on my own. But I also realize how incredibly beneficial it is to rub shoulders with such talented people today. I still get to do it a little, but with freelance work being mostly job-to-job, it takes out some of that consistent interaction.
Madison Caprara:
I definitely think we can all understand that feeling to a point. Even us self-ascribed introverts or home-bodies.
This industry has so many talented creatives. And now with the pandemic promoting remote working conditions, it’s even easier to collaborate with someone halfway across the world. How do you maintain that creative edge?
Josh Edwards:
The thing I love about design more than anything is that design is about problem-solving, and more often than not, that problem-solving is for someone else. I’ve always been interested in the ‘why’ of things. I was the kid that pulled cameras and toys apart to figure out how they worked and why they had been created the way that they were.
I find that it’s pretty easy to just accept things as they are, but almost always, there has been a lot of thought and reason put into something to arrive at the final result. I honestly just love the problem-solving aspect of design and being able to use processes from unrelated areas to come to an effective solution.
Madison Caprara:
Interesting, speaking more on that, in your opinion how does someone go about setting themselves apart?
Josh Edwards:
Haha, that’s a great question and to be honest, I'm not sure. I learned a long time ago, that I personally do my best work when I'm not the frontman. I’m way more productive and comfortable being a right-hand man, so I’d much rather blend in and get to work with all of those insanely talented people rather than compete against them for attention.
I know that some designers niche down and develop a ‘style’ to set themselves apart. But the reason I work in short form animation rather than film is that each project looks totally different from the last. I’d get so bored if everything I did looked the same, mostly because I feel like there are fewer design or animation problems to solve.
Madison Caprara:
A lot of creatives believe that a good motion designer should also be an excellent graphic designer. Would you agree?
Josh Edwards:
I think it definitely helps, but it's not essential. One of the things that I love about our industry is that almost everyone has a different way in, which adds so much more character and substance to what we make.
Design fundamentals are really helpful but also things like animation principles, life drawing, photography, storytelling, good transitions, sound design, and cinematography principles are all super helpful. For me, I've always loved making things, which is partly why some of my favorite jobs I've worked on are practical or mixed media. But that's not for everyone.
Madison Caprara:
Happy to get your take on that, Josh. When asked, I have been getting a wide variety of answers, but everyone always has a killer reasoning for backing it up.
If you had to choose one collaborator for a dream project, who would it be?
Josh Edwards:
It’s really hard to work out what a dream project would look like. If I think about the best jobs I've ever worked on, it’s all about the teams that I got to work with. I’ve managed to tick off working with almost all of my favorite studios. However, I would still love to line something up with Jorge R. Canedo Estrada at some point. I worked on the biggest story with him ages ago and we just haven't managed to make our schedules work.
Madison Caprara:
Sick! He’s actually one of our most anticipated speakers for The Dash Bash this fall. Jorge’s work is amazing!
I have to ask this next one of everyone, I usually find a new outlet for some inspo. Where do you go for inspiration?
Josh Edwards:
Probably the same places everyone else does, to be honest! Instagram, Pinterest, WINE after COFFEE, Stash Media. But I also like some alternative sources like leManoosh (for product design) or places like Colossal.
We are currently renovating a house that we bought at the end of last year, so I’m learning a whole lot more about building, architecture, interior design, and all the trades. Learning how to do all of it is super inspiring, and I'm sure it'll flow into my work in some way.
“Bridgespan - Narrowing The Crowd” | Josh Edwards
Madison Caprara:
Nice! Well, good luck with the house renovations! That’s always an exciting/stressful time.
To finish this off, do you have any closing advice or statements you would like to share, Josh?
Josh Edwards:
I’ve found the best thing that you can do is to solve other people's problems. Try to make the lives of the people around you easier, not more difficult. The amount of responsibility that the leaders in Motion Graphics companies carry is massive, so the more you can help them out the better everyone ends up. It's a team sport.
Madison Caprara:
Nice! So we’re reaching the end. Do you have any closing advice or statements you would like to share?
Josh Edwards:
I’ve found the best thing that you can do is to solve other people's problems. Try to make the lives of the people around you easier, not more difficult. The amount of responsibility that the leaders in Motion Graphics companies carry is massive, so the more you can help them out the better everyone ends up. It's a team sport.
Takeover Tuesday with Nocky Dinh
Q&A with Nocky Dinh: a freelance motion graphics designer and animator currently living in NYC, but originally from Vietnam.
Q&A with Nocky Dinh
Read time: 10min
“Vase” — Created by Nocky Dinh.
Madison Caprara:
Hey, Nocky! Why don’t you give me a brief introduction to yourself and your work for folks reading at home?
Nocky Dinh:
I’m Nocky Dinh and I’m currently a freelance 2D + 3D motion designer. In the past few years, I have mostly focused on 3D works. I strive to tell compelling stories with a cinematic approach and pleasing composition.
Madison Caprara:
I see you are originally from Vietnam, was there anything cultural-specific you can think of that fueled your passion for motion graphic design and animation?
“Fish Flags” — Created by Nocky Dinh.
Nocky Dinh:
Yes, I went to school for Digital Filmmaking because I was watching some Vietnamese TV shows and realized that I wanted to contribute to my country’s film industry. When I was in film school, I only took one 3D class - in Maya - and two After Effects classes. I wasn’t very good at motion graphics during my school years at all. I graduated without knowing what easy ease is, to be honest. Being an international student, if I wanted to work in the U.S., I needed to score a job that would sponsor me immediately.
At the time, I noticed that there was a demand for motion graphics, so I promoted myself as an “editor with motion graphics skills.” Luckily, I found a full-time gig a few months afterward and learned everything motion graphics-related on the job. Slowly I moved away from doing editing and focused solely on motion graphics at the company. After six years, I decided to freelance to expand my horizons.
Nocky Dinh:
Lately, I’ve been trying to fuse my cultural background into my personal projects. I’ve been chasing the Western aesthetic for so long, as I’m getting older, I realized that my own background is full of inspiration to pull from as well.
“I’ve been chasing the Western aesthetic for so long…I realized that my own background is full of inspiration to pull from...”
Madison Caprara:
Is there anything special you’re working on now that you’d like to share?
Nocky Dinh:
Yes! Aside from client work, I’m currently working on another one for the Kokeshi dolls series. I’ve made one before featuring Frida Kahlo and this new one will be focusing on Van Gogh.
I recently read that in order to know something well enough, you need to explore it more than just one or two ways. Instead of working on just a one-off idea (which I’ve done in the past), now I am exploring the concept in several ways before I make a series out of it. I highly recommend everyone trying this mindset.
Madison Caprara:
That’s an interesting way to go about re-learning the actual learning process!
What are some of the best and worst aspects of working in the motion design and animation field that you’ve experienced?
Nocky Dinh:
Best aspect: you can create anything and not be constrained to real-life physics. Working in animation makes me slow down, observe, and appreciate the small things. For example, how people walk or how cloth flutters in the wind.
Worst aspect: people think it’s easy and often underestimate how long or how difficult it is to make something from nothing. They think in minutes, while I’m thinking in frames. Not to mention the “fix-it-in-post” way of thinking.
“A Moonlit Night” — By Nocky Dinh.
Madison Caprara:
Do you typically work remotely, or have you transitioned due to the pandemic?
Nocky Dinh:
I used to do a mixture of working remotely and being on-site. My dream is to be able to work completely remotely. Commuting is a waste of time and energy. Ever since the pandemic hit and lots of studios opened up to remote working, I have been able to collaborate with people from all over the world. It’s so refreshing because you realize how big the pool of talent is when not being limited within the U.S. or Canadian borders.
Madison Caprara:
How do you stay focused? What do you perceive as your biggest distraction?
Nocky Dinh:
I must always trick myself into working for just 15 minutes. After that initial 15 minutes, then I’m able to get in the zone. Sometimes, I’ll even become so into the work, that I need to schedule an alarm to remind myself to eat lunch. Having a routine has definitely helped me get into focus mode a little easier.
My biggest distraction is social media! I often put my phone faced down during work hours if I can.
Madison Caprara:
What studio, designer, or artist - dead or alive - would you want to have a Zoom meeting with? I’d say dinner, but you know…
“you can create anything and not be constrained to real-life physics.”
“D is for Daggers” — Created by Nocky Dinh.
Nocky Dinh:
Hayao Miyazaki of Studio Ghibli. I think he needs no introduction.
Madison Caprara:
When you feel stuck, or are in need of some inspiration, what - or where - are your go-to’s?
Nocky Dinh:
I discovered that my brain tends to come up with ideas when it is in a relaxed state. Often time, I have “wow why can’t I think of that before”-solutions when I’m in a shower. However, it’s unrealistic to shower 20 times a day so mind-mapping works wonders when I need to dive deeper than the low-hanging fruit ideas.
I also look into the adjacent fields of motion design - such as photography, sculpture, museum installations, fiber arts - and I subscribed to some curated websites like The Colossal, HypeBeast, AIGA Eye on Design — where they curate all sorts of cool projects in lots of different fields. It’s important to look for inspiration in places outside of the direct connections to your work. You never know what could spark interesting ideas.
Nocky Dinh:
I recently read that Joyce N. Ho went to the library to look for inspiration for the Semi Permanent title sequence and I thought that was a fantastic idea. When things are open again, I can’t wait to venture into random sections of local libraries.
Madison Caprara:
Speaking on inspiration, is there anything particularly interesting you’re reading, watching, or listening to right now?
Nocky Dinh:
I’m re-listening to a podcast called, Hardcore History: Wrath of The Khans, by Dan Carlin. I highly recommend all the podcasts from him. I’m also reading, Thoughts on Design, by Paul Rand. It’s very interesting.
Madison Caprara:
Can you share one of your personal failures and what you learned from it?
“…my brain tends to come up with ideas when it is in a relaxed state…however, it’s unrealistic to shower 20 times a day…mind-mapping works wonders when I need to dive deeper than the low-hanging fruit ideas.”
Nocky Dinh:
My Psychedelic Hot Dog poster was done in 2016 but it was the most memorable failure that I had to date. I was doing an “everyday project” challenge where I worked on one of my 3D personal projects every day (though it’s not necessary to actually finish in a single day.) I was trying to model a hot dog and at the time, I did not know what a proper UV was in 3D for texturing, so I was struggling very hard to texture the buns correctly.
I was cycling through all the projections then it hit me: “hey, if I can’t get it to work properly, why don’t I take advantage of it being NOT correct?” and so this trippy texture came about. With some design in photoshop, I was able to turn it into something really interesting. The lesson I learned here is that sometimes if you cannot get something to work generally, turn it into something that works for you.
Madison Caprara:
What about three general habits to improve workflow? Or some insightful dos and don’ts?
“The Anatomy of a Psychedelic Hot Dog” — Created by Nocky Dinh.
“my entire career was built upon personal projects. they’re not just a calling card but also an exercise to discover who you are and what your voice is.”
Nocky Dinh:
1.) Be super organized with your project files. Label all the layers and objects in your scene.
2.) Take breaks and come back to the projects later. You’ll see things you didn’t see before.
3.) Save your projects in increments! In addition, also store your current working project files on Dropbox. There are times when the ‘delete history’ of Dropbox saves the day!
Madison Caprara:
Perfect! Well, do you have any closing advice, points, or statements you would like to share?
Nocky Dinh:
Personal projects. I cannot stress how important personal projects are for freelancers. My entire career was built upon personal projects. They’re not just a calling card but also an exercise to discover who you are and what your voice is. Don’t chase what’s trendy. Focus on what you like, and you will naturally find yourself different from others.
Also, in terms of work, it’s so important to be somebody who is fun to work with. I’ve seen people getting hired consistently because they are team players and easy to collaborate with, even if their skills are not at the top level. And vice versa, super talented people not getting hired again because they are difficult to work with.
Takeover Tuesday with Millie Woodcock
Q&A with Millie Woodcock: a freelance illustrator and designer who also animates for Lambda Films.
Q&A with Millie Woodcock
Read time: 5min
Madison Caprara:
So, how did you get into the illustration and motion design game? Did choosing it as a career path click immediately or did it take some self-exploration?
Millie Woodcock:
As a kid, I had always loved drawing my favorite cartoon characters. Once I realized that this was an actual job, it stuck with me and I always wanted to go into an animation career. Illustration as a job came a little later after I studied animation, and then motion graphics came even later after I graduated. Motion graphics took a bit more self-exploration, I never really felt like I could fit in with traditional animation techniques and really took to the graphical styles of motion graphics. I had a few intern jobs after graduating, then managed to get a full-time role as a motion graphics animator. I’ve been working as an animator now for seven years and started freelancing three years ago.
Madison Caprara:
What kind of education did it take to get you where you are today? Looking back, are you for or against pursuing a formal education?
“Moth” — Illustrated by Millie Woodcock.
Millie Woodcock:
I did a BA in animation at Norwich University of the Arts. I think formal education is really down to the individual person. I don’t think I would have had the self-motivation at 18 to learn what I needed to learn with online courses. However, there are now so many online options run by industry professionals that it seems much easier to learn online. There weren’t as many of these when I went to University. There isn’t a right or wrong path into the industry.
Madison Caprara:
What are the best and worst aspects of working in the animation field?
“there isn’t a right or wrong path into the industry.”
Millie Woodcock:
The best part of my job is being able to work on many different projects, which means I get to explore different styles and approaches. I tend to get bored on a project if it lasts too long. Working in the commercial field of motion graphics keeps me on my toes as I don’t tend to be on a project that lasts more than a couple of months.
The worst aspect is that sometimes you can get some really tight deadlines where you feel like you don’t have time to think and consider your approach.
Madison Caprara:
Tell us a little more about your aesthetic. It’s so fun and almost...serene?
Millie Woodcock:
Thank you! I feel like my aesthetic is always developing. I do love playing with shapes, specifically in my character designs, I also love to play with proportions and perspectives.
Madison Caprara:
What is the craziest client or project experience you’ve had thus far?
“Attention Everyone” — Designed and Illustrated by Millie Woodcock; With Very True Story.
Millie Woodcock:
I have one that was a crazy project in a good way!
I was approached by the team at Very True Story to storyboard and design an animation that was scripted by 4th Graders. It was so much fun to bring their story to life.
Madison Caprara:
What is your all-time favorite animation or illustration and why?
Millie Woodcock:
It’s hard to pick but one of my all-time favorite animations is, My Moon, directed by Eusong Lee.
The story and design are both amazing, I never get bored of watching it.
Madison Caprara:
Are there any new trends that newbies (or even veterans) should be focusing on, in your opinion?
Millie Woodcock:
I feel like I’m seeing a lot of noisy gradients. I’ve even started to add them to my own work because I like how it looks. But, I don’t think it’s super important to have to focus too much on trends. If you see something you like, take inspiration from it and give it a go.
“I don’t think it’s super important to have to focus too much on trends. if you see something you like, take inspiration from it and give it a go.”
“Opposites” — Illustrated by Millie Woodcock.
Madison Caprara:
How has the pandemic affected your access to work?
Millie Woodcock:
I’ve been lucky to not have a decrease in work. I live in a small town and I think the pandemic opened up more remote freelancing work too.
Madison Caprara:
Do you foresee an increasing or decreasing demand for animators and illustrators now and in the coming years?
Millie Woodcock
At the moment, I feel like there has been an increased demand for animation work. I think where physical filming has been difficult to do during the pandemic, these projects have moved over to animation instead.
Madison Caprara:
Where or who do you turn to for inspiration?
Millie Woodcock:
I get inspiration from many places; being able to travel and socialize helps refresh my brain a lot, so this year I have found it a struggle to get the motivation to create personal work.
I also get inspiration from all of the artists I follow on social media; looking through my Instagram feed can help motivate me to create something. I now have a dog, he has occasionally inspired me to create some illustrations that feature him.
“don’t let imposter syndrome get in the way of putting something out there for people to see.”
Madison Caprara:
Do you have any closing advice, points, or statements you would like to share?
Millie Woodcock:
I personally struggle to finish personal pieces, so a piece of advice I really need to follow for myself is to finish something and move on. Don’t let imposter syndrome get in the way of putting something out there for people to see.