Takeover Tuesday with Charmaine Yu
An interview with Charmaine Yu: freelance illustrator and designer from the Philippines. I'm passionate about storytelling, and I have a curiosity that constantly fuels my drive to improve, try new things, and learn new skills
Interviewer: Bella Alfonsi
Read time: 5min
Bella:
Thank you for joining us for Takeover Tuesday, Charmaine! Please introduce yourself!
Charmaine:
Happy to have been invited 😊I’m Charmaine Yu! I’m a freelance illustrator and designer from the Philippines. I love working on motion design projects — creating storyboards, style frames, character designs, and other illustrated assets. When possible, I also enjoy working on editorial and branding projects. Recently, I’ve also started to call myself a budding cel animator, since being immersed into the world of motion design & animation has really inspired me to take the steps to learn how to make my drawings move.
Bella:
How did you get to where you are today in the industry?
Charmaine:
Hmm, there are definitely a whole bunch of things that I’m grateful for that helped me get to where I am now – education, experience, support, trust, luck, and dedication (or in other words stubbornness 😂).
I started off my career in 2019 as a fresh graduate from the University of the Philippines with a BFA in Visual Communication. Then, I worked as an in-house illustrator for a local tech startup, but after a year, I felt like I wasn’t making the work that I wanted to and decided to make a huge shift by jumping into freelance. Around the same time, I took School of Motion’s Illustration for Motion online course, which gave me the confidence to start doing work in the motion design space. Afterwards, I got to connect with amazing talented people in the industry, worked on my first few motion projects (thanks to studios and fellow freelancers who took a chance on me), and joined different motion communities where people would share resources, experiences, and opportunities (like MDA and Panimation slack channels).
Since then, whenever I’m on a project, I make sure to do good work; when I’m not on a project, I continue reaching out to studios/agencies, work on personal pieces or projects, and find ways to improve my skills.
Since I jumped into this industry as a freelancer and never got to experience being a part of a motion studio yet (though it is definitely something that I want to do in 2024 or after), research, reaching out, and asking questions have been incredibly important to navigating the industry. Being a part of Dash’s mentorship program in early 2023 also helped me so much in figuring out how certain things work, as well as how I could grow and progress as a creative.
I still have a long way to go career and skill-wise, but I’m incredibly fortunate and grateful to have been a part of some fun projects so far and to have worked with people across the globe!
In her free time, you might find Charmaine interacting with animals, figuring out cel animation, crocheting, learning a language, or searching for my next adventure.
Bella:
Do you have any advice for someone trying to be a freelance artist full-time?
Charmaine:
A WHOLE BUNCH. Hope it’s ok if I share a few!
Firstly, before going freelance full-time, create a potential client list. It would be a much smoother start into freelance if you already have a few potential clients who know and/or trust you and would probably be able to give you some work. If not, at least have an idea of who you can offer your services to and who would be your target clients.
Secondly, build out your savings (ideally enough to cover 6 months to 1 year of expenses) so that you’ve got a financial safety net in case it gets tough to find work, especially within the first year or so (or during a recession). This also gives you some financial peace of mind — enough to avoid pricing low on jobs just to get some money to pay the bills.
There’s a lot more I could say, but to keep it short, here’s my last piece of advice: talk to other freelancers. Working as a freelance artist can be kinda lonely — you may not have a team that you always work with or a boss/mentor to approach when you need guidance. I think it’s incredibly helpful to find freelancer friends who you could share experiences with; ask for help, advice, or critique when you need it; or collaborate with when working on larger projects.
Bella:
I loooove your characters. They have so much personality. How do you give life to something that isn't human, like your fluffy cloud-like creature in "Bounce"?
Charmaine:
Ahhh, thanks so much! Hmm, whenever I create characters (human or non-human), I always try to come up with a backstory: What’s their personality like? Why are they doing whatever they’re doing in the scene? What’s their relationship with other characters in the story? How are they feeling in this moment? And so on. This really helps to build up the “why” in my character designs and informs my decisions in the shape language, details, colors, etc.
Charmaine’s “Funny Creatures.”
Bella:
Is there a project you've done that stands out as a favorite to you?
Charmaine:
Well, “Bounce” definitely remains as one of my top favorites. It was my first fully illustrated looping animation! I went into it not quite sure if I could actually make what I was imagining in my head and with no idea of whether what I was doing was even right, but I came out of it incredibly happy with the outcome!
I said “yes” to something I haven’t really done before and gave myself a difficult challenge, but I was thankfully able to do it and deliver! So this project really felt like such an accomplishment to me and that I had leveled up because of it!
Bella:
What kind of work is most fulfilling to you?
Charmaine:
I find it very fulfilling when I get to discuss and brainstorm ideas on the project I’m working on — in other words, any project where I have a voice that will be heard and where I can suggest concepts, art direction, visual solutions, or approaches to accomplish the project’s goal. Basically, I like being valued as an artist not only by my technical skills, but my creative ideas & vision as well.
Being able to collaborate with a team of amazing artists is also incredibly fulfilling for me. I think it’s so awesome to have creatives, all with different skills and strengths, working together on a larger project and creating something that might’ve been impossible for just 1 person to make — like a community helping each other out and working towards a common goal.
Bella:
What method are you using to learn 2D cel animation?
Charmaine:
I’m on the journey of teaching myself 2D cel animation — that means Youtube “academy”, whatever free or affordable resources I can find online, books, lots of practice, and self-discipline. However, I’ll be honest that my cel animation learning has been kinda on and off throughout 2023. To add to that, it’s also been way too easy for me to just consume study content about cel animation and call it a day (or as it was coined in a substack post by Beth Spencer — “pro-CLASS-tinating” 😅). However, I’ve realized that I want to be serious about learning this, and that if I didn’t put in the hard work and actually apply those learnings into consistent practice, then I would never make any progress. That’s why, last November, I started planning out my own lesson plan, exercises, and personal projects that I wanted to work on in order get those practice hours in and create more animated work. I’m not sure how long it’ll take for me to get good and become more confident in my animation skills, but I’ll probably keep at it till I get there!
Some learning resources that I’ve been using include The Animator’s Survival Kit by Richard Williams, various Skillshare classes, and youtube videos (like those from Alex Grigg & Toniko Pantoja). I’ve also been studying animated shows (especially anime, which is a goldmine of amazing handdrawn animated goodness), films, and works from amazing animators I follow online (e.g. Reece Parker, Rachel Reid, Jocie Juritz, Henrique Barone).
“Bounce” - One of Charmaine’s favorite projects.
Bella:
Where/what do you get inspiration from?
Charmaine:
Anywhere and everywhere, really! I love getting inspired by artists I follow on Instagram, articles I read on Substack/Creative Boom/It’s Nice That, whatever I come across on Pinterest, and films & series that I’ve watched. Outside of the screen, I also draw inspiration from people-watching, nature, travelling, my daily life, and other experiences.
Bella:
What helps you get out of a creative block?
Charmaine:
Whenever I’ve felt uninspired, I’ve never liked trying to force my way through it as often it leads to results that I’m not really happy with. Instead, I find it helpful to step away for a bit, take a break, and do something that can relax my creative brain. Usually, I would get off my desk to take a walk, grab a snack, play with my cats, or simply take a nap — it’s amazing how many times sleep has given me a creative boost!
If the creative block is kinda bad, like maybe bordering on burnout, I would ideally take a longer break and try to find some inspiration: maybe I’ll decide to play around with materials and mediums that I wouldn’t normally work with, or maybe I’ll go on a vacation to see some new sights and create new experiences.
A set of styleframes that I created for a client titled “A Different World.”
Bella:
Any advice/takeaways?
Charmaine:
Sharing as advice something that I absolutely live by: Never stop learning! Whether it’s to improve your current skills to help level up your work or to learn a new hobby that you just want to get into, don’t be afraid to get out of your comfort zone, make mistakes, and learn something new ✨
Thanks again for inviting me onto Takeover Tuesdays and hope everyone has a lovely day!
Meet the speakers: Wes Louis
An interview with Wes Louis: a director, designer, and animator at The Line known for his unique design sensibility and his dramatic action-led animation sequences.
Q&A hosted by Mack Garrison.
Read time: 15min
Mack Garrison:
Wesley, I'm really pumped for this conversation because, well, one, if you don't know this already, you guys do phenomenal work. I mean, the cel work you guys produce, just really top tier, top quality.
Wes Louis:
Thank you, man, I appreciate that.
Mack Garrison:
I was talking to Dotti over at Golden Wolf, because she was at the Bash last time. She spoke on behalf of Golden Wolf there. She was talking about how highly she thinks of you guys and that for a long time you kept winning and losing to each other on pitches. It was just always you guys going back and forth.
Wes Louis:
Yeah, that is exactly right. They would do something and then we would do something, and they would do something but it feels kind of healthy. It's strange to say, because you think to yourself, "Well, I mean they are a rival company," but actually we have quite a good relationship with them. Anytime they have their summer parties or other events, they invite us over. We have a good laugh and a few drinks, so it's a healthy competitive space.
Mack Garrison:
I remember getting out of school and being so green in this space, not knowing anything, but how many people were willing to help me. Even growing from junior up to senior as an animator, and then again, starting the studio, and how people were just willing to share advice. I've never met a space that feels as communal as the motion design space really is.
Wes Louis:
I just think it’s what makes the space a better place to work in. No one's holding their cards too close to their chest. It's weird, because intuitively you’d think keeping what's unique about you secret would be the way to go but, the opposite has benefits. One of our other directors, Sam, always talks to guys from Animade or Moth Collective about all sorts. We all go to the same festivals, hang out and talk. "Well how did you do that or show the best way to do this?" it's a weird but nice little community we have
Mack Garrison:
It feels different, because I feel like it's not like that in the rest of the creative space. Even agencies, I know agencies are kind of cutthroat with each other, but studios, for whatever reason, it's not. I think it's because, as a studio owner, I feel like people start studios because they really love a singular craft.
Wes Louis:
Yeah, exactly, you're coming from the same place. And I think with us specifically, because all the directors of the company, we're all animators or compositors, we all come from creative backgrounds. I think we just have more of an understanding of people that work with us as well. So we understand burnout, we understand what it feels like not to want to work on something that maybe you're not feeling inspired by.
Mack Garrison:
So I run Dash with a business partner. We were both animators back in the day. We animated for basically a decade before trying our hand at running a shop and I think there's a difference. When leadership knows how to animate, you don't put your team in bad situations. Even just understanding what's reasonable, what's not, what's a hard request, what's not, and to be able to talk through that. I think you get into trouble when it gets too much on the business-oriented side of things.
Wes Louis:
Definitely. We worked on a Gorillaz music video with Jamie Hewlett. The turnaround for that, I think it was something ridiculous, six or eight weeks, and we did it because, I mean, it's the Gorillaz….
Mack Garrison:
This is the Humility piece, right?
Wes Louis:
Yeah.
Mack Garrison:
That you did that in 6 weeks. That's ridiculous.
Wes Louis:
Yeah, it was crazy. It was like a six-week turnaround to get everything done. Max and Tim were directing it. Tim's a massive Jamie Hewlett fan, so that's like a dream come true project just landing on his plate. We took the job, but I think everybody, including the directors, worked so hard on it. They were working late, working until 10 o'clock at night and all that kinds. We really understood what our staff was going through and I think they appreciated that we acknowledged that we were pushing them to the limit, but then we also said, "We're never doing that again," because you're breaking the people that are working for you. So while The project gave the studio a lot of street cred, it also made us really examine our working practices because the people who work for us are important. I mean animation is hard enough as it is without you having to come home after hours every night and you're not spending time with your friends and family. So you want to try and find a balance. I mean, sometimes it happens where a crunch happens and you have to stay a bit later, but I think nine times out of 10 it's definitely more of an exception than a rule. Whereas I know some companies are like, "No, you've got to work on the weekend and you've got to work on this, you've got to work that." We try not to do that.
Mack Garrison:
A hundred percent. We feel the same way. And I think part of it was also that self-reflection after the pandemic where priorities just totally switched for people. It's like, "Look, this is just a job." We like it, I love animation, but there's stuff outside of it. We all have stuff outside of it, right?
Mack Garrison:
I want to get back into some of the stuff you guys are doing at Line, because like I said, it's phenomenal. But maybe take me back to the beginning.
Wes Louis:
Yeah, so my family's Caribbean, St. Lucian. My parents were born over there. But I was born and raised here in London. As a child I was always into animation, just generally, Saturday morning cartoons, anime shows. I'd always been drawn well. I've been drawing since I was five-years-old... and never really put it down. So it was something that I think people thought it would just be a hobby that went away, and it never did. I was doing anything that could probably lead me into comics or animation, any excuse to draw. Graphic design was the closest thing I could find to do that. And even on graphic design projects, I was always trying to do some sort of character design or animation orientated thing. But yeah, I studied multimedia for a bit and I dropped out of that because I just wasn't happy doing the course, so I spent a few years working in retail and doing office work and all this stuff. And I think it was like 27, that I just asked myself the question, "If money and logistics weren't a factor, what would I be doing?" And animation just kept coming back, so I kind of worked my way backwards and just started saving for it and doing odd jobs so I can save money, so I could take a year or two off just so I can do a course in animation.
Mack Garrison:
So you did graphic design, you kind of dropped out of the multimedia side because you weren't vibing with it as much. You wanted to get more into the traditional, kind of cel animation. Is that what was drawing your interest mainly?
Wes Louis:
Yeah that's what it is. Even when I was doing retail, I remember I was working in a store called Hamleys, it's like a toy store, a big toy store in London on Regent Street. And I remember they would ask me to do graphic design things every now and then, but I was working behind the tills. And I remember applying for a job in the display department, where they would decorate displays and all that kind of stuff. And I thought, "Yeah, this would be perfect." And it's funny, the head of display, showed him my CV, showed my work. He is like, "Yeah, you're amazing," all this kind stuff. He's like, "But I'm not going to give you a job." I was like, "Why?" "Because you're too good for here." I was like, "Why?. He is like, "If you want to go and work in this, then get off your ass and go and find somewhere to work, but I'm not giving you a job here." And he refused to give me a job.
Mack Garrison:
Wow.
Wes Louis:
Yeah. There was also a point where I tried to go full-time in Hamleys, because I was working three or four days a week, and my manager at the time refused to give me a job. She refused to let me work full-time. I was like, "What's going on?" She goes, "Oh, I see you..." Because I would do a lot of doodles on till receipt paper while I'm waiting for customers. I've still got loads of them at home. She was like, "I always see you drawing on these receipts and you're just sitting here." And she goes, "Why aren't you going out and looking for real work in what you love?" I didn't really have a proper answer for her, because I was quite young at the time. But she's like, "Look, I'm not giving you a job here." She goes, "If you want to work a few days a week, that's fine, I can't stop you but don't try and apply for any other department, because if you try and apply, I'm going to tell them not to hire you."
Mack Garrison:
No way.
Wes Louis:
They just literally would not let me work full time there.
Mack Garrison:
That's so crazy. It's that early confidence push and kind of validation that what you're doing, what you're creating means something.
Wes Louis:
I think that's what it was. I actually did reach out to her (Her name is Julia) just to tell her thank you for doing that, pushing me. So I think from then I just went into work with more of a focus. I made a decision to become an animator and spent time working and saving up for a Postgraduate animation course at Central Saint Martins in London. It's funny, because when I went to visit the college they'd had the end of year show, and for some reason, that year it was incredible. So I worked so hard to get on that course, man, believing I wasn't good enough to get on the course. I was doing life drawing classes every weekend. I think I was doing it twice a week. And I went on to an art exchange program in Prague with conceptart.org, hosted by a company called Massive Black.
Mack Garrison:
Well it had to be good validation for you on this career path too, because I know when you find something you're really into, you get into this flow state where it's not work anymore. It's all this stuff that you're trying to get better at and it's hard, but it's fun. You're excited, you want to jump in and just learn as much as you can. It's a totally different vibe versus if you're in something you're not digging.
Wes Louis:
Oh, I think that's 100% true. And I could even point to projects I've done where I know the flow state versus not being in a flow state, for sure.
I did a lot of work to get on the course. I even visited the university a couple of times to speak to the head lecturer just to talk. "Ah," he goes, "you again." So I would go up there, spend about 20 minutes with him, keep in mind I lived an hour away from the university at the time. I'm showing him my sketchbook just asking questions “is this good? Do I need to draw more of this?” It really was an excuse to be in that environment with lightboxes and students flippings animation paper. It was the closest thing to an animation studio I'd ever been in and I loved it. By the time I had my interview he was just like, "All right, well let's see how we can get rid of you then." But he was joking, very British humor. He said, "Your portfolio is incredible. What took you so long," sort of thing. So he was like, "Of course we want you on the course.
Mack Garrison:
Right.
Wes Louis:
I had worked so hard to get on the course, because I just thought I wasn't good enough so I didn't take it for granted. I studied for a year. That's where I met Tim McCourt, who was on the same course as me. After the course finished, I spent about six months trying to finish my thesis film, which I didn't.
Mack Garrison:
That's great.
Wes Louis:
I really tried to finish. I thought there was something wrong with me because it was like, "Why can't I finish this?" And I was trying to get a certain amount of quality in a certain amount of time, but I just couldn't do it. Just not realizing that, actually animation takes time and it takes a team. And I'm trying to do this, Disney level stuff by myself.
Mack Garrison:
That's a lot. That's a lot to put on your plate. So you never finished the thesis?
Wes Louis:
No, I didn't finish but I really tried. I worked on it for a few months after the course but it was so much harder trying to do it from home. About 6 months after uni,I moved to Scotland. I was working at a company called Ink Digital on this film called Illusionist, as an inbetweener cleanup artist. I even tried to finish my thesis film there, redesigned the characters and everything. Even at that point, I wasn't very confident in animation. I just couldn't understand how to do it. I remember meeting with an animator at Django Films (that was the main studio for the Illusionist where all the animation took place) She gracefully took time out to show me around and show me her work and process. Within half an hour she said and My understanding of animation completely changed. If you asked me to do my thesis film today, be it two months or three months I’d finish it. I’d know what to animate, what to cheat etc.
Mack Garrison:
What did she say to you?
Wes Louis:
I said, "So what's your breakdown?" She goes, "I don't really think about it that way, I just do the motion. And then I find a breakdown afterwards." She showed me her sketches and demonstrated her method. It just made sense. It was Aya Suzuki, actually. She's gone on to work with directors like Hayo Myazakiand she's an incredible animator. It was just a half an hour chat and it was like things clicked all of a sudden where the things that I was struggling to do weren't hard anymore, because now I understood what it was. And it was just basically her process of how she put an idea down and got the movement down. I think my problem was getting too in the weeds of it, I was trying to understand what's a breakdown, what's a key. I think those things matter when you're passing off the animation to somebody else, but when you're doing it yourself, it doesn't matter that much, you know? There might be some people that disagree with me, but that was just for me, it just made sense the way she went about it.
Mack Garrison:
Tell me about some of the projects that came after that?
Wes Louis:
So when I got back from Scotland, I met up with Tim again and we worked on our first short film together. We spent about a year doing that at a Partizan. We were very fortunate to have a space to work for free as Tim had a good relationship with one of the producers at the time. We thought it would take us three months, it took us about a year. And we got an award from the Westminster Arts Council. So they were giving out money for people to make films and stuff... so I think they gave us 4,000 pounds, which seemed like a lot at the time.
Mack Garrison:
Yeah, of course.
Wes Louis:
I mean, me and Tim weren't getting paid for it, we were doing freelance work for Partizan so we could keep on going. We learnt a lot doing that. After that I guess the project that made me more well known was Super Turbo Atomic Ninja Rabbit, I just went full steam ahead. It was a style of animation I'd never approached before. I've never done anything like it which is ironic because my love of animation really is rooted in action and anime. There was no reason for me to think I could do it except that I just wanted to so I just went ahead and tried. Also got a friend Rina May to do the music and BXFTYS on sound fx. Actually let me backup, I'm jumping around a bit. After me and Tim made our film, we went around looking for work as directors. Turns out it doesn't really work in that way. You don't just go and apply to be a director.
Mack Garrison:
Yeah, right. Like, "I'd like to work here please." And it's like, "No, thank you."
Wes Louis:
Yeah, yeah. "I'd like to work as a director." It's like, "Not really, no."
Mack Garrison:
That's great.
Wes Louis:
I did show my portfolio though and a few weeks later it was like, "Oh, yeah, we like your work we have some jobs on if you're interested. That was at Nexus in London." And I was working there freelance for about a year and Tim was doing freelance at Partizan and some other places. While Tim was on the job, he met with Sam Taylor, James Duveen and Bjorn Erik Aschim, the other partners at The Line. Sam was looking for a studio space at the time and was asking if we were interested in sharing a space, and not even as a company but just people who animate together and have a shared space while working different freelance jobs. I couldn’t really afford it at the time but we had a friend Fritzi who had a desk and she was letting me use it at the time and eventually I took over from her. While at the studio Tim got approached by some of the runners who were at Partizan who now have their own company, Bullion Productions. They got a job from the Ministry of Sound to do a music video for Mat Zo and Porter Robinson and asked if Tim and I were up for directing because they knew we made our short film at Partizan. So it was like, "Yeah, sure." And then the other guys we were sharing a space with, they were just finishing up their film Everything I can See From Here, so we were like, "Oh, if you guys aren't doing anything, we'd like to hire you to work on our project." So the six of us worked on this project together and it went so well. It was an incredible experience. We just said, "Oh, how about we start a collective, we can just consolidate our work and take it further?" That's basically when we formed The Line.
Mack Garrison:
It's perfect.
Wes Louis:
Soon after Bjorn got contacted by Electric Theatre Collective (ETC) to do some concept art and they were asking, "Do you know any animators or character designers?" He's like, "Oh, I actually know five guys."
So we went over there and we were working together for a while. They gave us some funding to make our first official The Line original projects. Amaro and Walden's Joyride and Super Turbo Atomic Ninja Rabbit. Ideas we had for a couple years. We were working on those productions simultaneously and released them a month apart, maybe two. I think that these projects gave us our notoriety. From then we just started getting commercial projects. We were at ETC for about 3 years I think but eventually ended up leaving to actually start our own studio. No hard feelings or anything, it just became harder to function the way we wanted to as directors. We thought, "Let's see if we can start our own company." I mean the options then were, to either leave and try and make some more money to build ourselves back up, and then hopefully regroup again, which probably wouldn't have happened. Or let's just go for it and start a company. So we pooled some money together, got a studio space and our first job came within 2 months and….
Mack Garrison:
The rest is history.
Wes Louis:
... five years later we've got, I think about we have roughly 40 people with us including the 6 founders.
Mack Garrison:
Man, that's crazy.
Wes Louis:
James counted about, over three or four projects, we had about 110 people working with us at one time.
Mack Garrison:
Wow. That's crazy.
Wes Louis:
Yeah, it is a bit surreal, because you're looking around and you're like- "I don't exactly know how this works but it is working, and it's great."
Mack Garrison:
Oh, no, it's really cool. So a couple of things I picked up on there, Wesley that I think is really interesting and I want to poke at a bit is, so you get out of school, you end up on this Illusionist project, you're kind of navigating the process a bit, but then it kind of starts to click. You and Tim, then after the Illusionist, work on your personal project, right. What film was that that you guys were doing?
Wes Louis:
Drawing Inspiration.
Mack Garrison:
Drawing Inspiration, that's right. So you're doing these films or this entertainment side of things and then you end up from that side into kind of the commercial space a bit from there. But I like how when you even refer to the projects you're working on, you're referring to them as films. Everything you do has this artistic lens. And I do think there's this balance in animation with art versus design, right?
Wes Louis:
Yeah.
Mack Garrison:
How did you navigate that as you got into that world and all of a sudden these projects, which I'm sure you had thoughts on, on how you want it to be, is now getting pushback from clients who are paying you for it and they want it done a certain way and you're like, "That's killing the artistic style of it." How does the artist versus designer kind of come into play for you these days?
Wes Louis:
That's a really interesting question. I mean even the short films that we made, people ask, "How do you make the time to make those films and do what you want? It's insane." And the answer is, it is insane. It sounds very cliche, but we were too stupid to know that you're not supposed to do these kinds of things. We made two short films in a year simultaneously, while trying to do freelance projects. And that's crazy, because I was working, I mean we were working weekends, evenings and stuff, and it's not an easy thing to do. But like you said, if you love what you're doing, you don't really perceive it as work, you just perceive it as this thing that you need to get done.
In terms of the commercial side, I think earlier on I would say we did get projects that you'd get weird client pushback. I remember doing a project and I literally had the clients standing behind me while I was doing a drawing.
Mack Garrison:
No! I would've quit. I would've been out.
Wes Louis:
Oh god, it was like the Apprentice. There were about three or four of them and I was drawing a face. "Oh, do this in the lips. Move it, move it. No, push it up, push it down. Make her eyes bigger. Make it smaller." And the drawing, at the end of it, I just remember sitting there thinking, "This is not going in my portfolio, this is the worst piece of work I've ever done.”
And luckily, I mean they kind of doubled back and they were like, "Oh, actually, this is not working." And then I had to redesign it from scratch and they just kind of left us to it. But actually, generally speaking, I feel like our clients have been really good. And I think that's because of the short films that we've made. And I think the thing that we realize is, if we make the things that we want to make and make it high quality, people hopefully will come to us for what we do rather than what someone else does. And I think that brings about a certain amount of trust from our client as well. So if we show them something that we've done that they're interested in. So anytime we get a pitch in, well a lot of the times they will point to other people's work, but it will always have our work in there. "Oh, when you did this on this project, this was great. We'd love more of this and stuff."
Mack Garrison:
It's almost like, concept-wise with references to other things, but stylistically it always comes back to you all. So you know you're in the right lane.
Wes Louis:
Yeah. So actually when we are doing stuff, nine times out of ten, I would say you do get satisfaction from the client work. Obviously it's not going to be 100% your way and I think there's an expectation of that. Look, someone's paying you to do this and you put your best foot forward and say, "Look, I really don't think this is a good idea because," and they do listen and then sometimes it's someone higher than the person you're talking to is like, "No, we definitely want this." "Oh, okay, that's fine." I always take our client projects as a space to learn as well.
Mack Garrison:
Sure, sure.
Wes Louis:
I'm getting paid to learn how to do something a little bit differently and apply it to my own work and to the studio as well. I mean the whole reason we started it is so that we can make our own stuff. We actually put some of our profits back into personal and development projects. We’ve actually got a few in development at the moment and one hopefully dropping late-summer.
Mack Garrison:
Perfect. That will be a perfect time to roll it in for the summer and share it on the big screen here in Raleigh.
Wes Louis:
Yeah, exactly. It's a short. Our films are quite short so typically they’re made in the style of a trailer or a music video, because to try and do anything longer can be quite difficult if you want something really long form. Doing shorts like this gives us a chance to kind of put stuff out there, our own identity and have people in the studio play around on things that they probably wouldn't normally get to do at other studios. We've actually got another director, who is the first director doing a personal project outside of the six of us.
Mack Garrison:
How does that feel? Because I do think there's something about as you progress as a studio or owner, you can't have your hand in everything. You can't always see stuff. Does it feel weird to get to this space where there's a director kind of rolling with something and you're not really sure what's going on?
Wes Louis:
It's weird. I think even just not being hands-on is a little bit frustrating for me. I got into it so I can draw and animate and I'm not drawing and animating anymore. And even people have said to me, "Oh, I don't really see your work anymore." It really is rewarding though, to see an animator go from a junior assist role to directing a project on her own project; leading a team of people, having her own voice and having the respect of all her peers supporting her, I think is amazing. I think none of us are under the illusion that we're always going to be relevant and it's nice to be able to build a space with the resources we have that can trickle down to the next generation. And they create stuff, and they do better than we ever could.
Mack Garrison:
I think, well because you look back and you look at the stuff that you've gone through and you learn about things that you really liked and the people that pushed you. Even your retail boss, don't do this, or your colleague who's like, "Think about it this way," and there's all these moments with these spaces where that's conducive. And so I think as leaders, you try to create that space at your studio. What are the things that you really wanted? What are the things that you can create an area for someone to try stuff to fail and stuff to grow and to learn? And so that's got to be a huge highlight at The Line.
Wes Louis:
Yeah, it is something that I think we speak about we're proud of. I mean, we don't always get everything right, we're still learning.
Mack Garrison:
Sure.
Wes Louis:
But I think more often than not from what people have said, unless they're lying to us, they're comfortable working or they like it, they feel supported, they feel like they've been heard and they get to put their ideas across. We've got this initiative that our development manager has put forward. So basically, we give 10 days to each person on the staff every year to just go in and play. The caveat is that it has to benefit the company in some sort of way. So it could be they go in, find a new system for production or just learn how to draw something a little bit better. Anything they want. It doesn't have to be something they present, it's just 10 days for people to go and play, because sometimes you wait for downtime to happen and sometimes there is no downtime. So it's like, all right, here's 10 days. And actually, some of the projects that we're working on now came from that. In fact, there's about three projects that have come from our exploration time where people have gone away, had 10 days to think about something that they weren't thinking about before, and then they've come back and said, "Oh, actually, I've got a great idea." It's like, "All right, let's make that, let's put some money into that so you get to have a bit of a creative outlet.
Mack Garrison:
That's cool. I love that. And I love the buy-in from folks too, because it makes people feel like they're bought into the studio. They're bringing their ideas to the table and the studio's rallying around them, which is really nice too.
Wes Louis:
I think that the thing with us is that we're like, "Oh, it would be so cool if we had this when we were coming up." We're like, "All right, well let's just do it for our staff." And it seems to be working.
Mack Garrison:
Do y'all feel good where you are now or do you want to continue to expand? Do you have any big, broader goals for the company?
Wes Louis:
It's funny you say that, because we literally are in a kind of space where we're trying to reestablish and just remember where we came from and use that to inform where we're going. So I'm from the Caribbean, as I said before, and what I've been doing is I've started this kind of program with a company in Jamaica called ListenMi, they're an animation company. And basically I just give them an hour a week or hour every two weeks of my time just sharing insight into just how animation works and helping them, in a sense, kind of level up. Because I think you've got loads of animators or aspiring animators in the Caribbean who just don't have the resources or people to teach them.
And I know I learn a lot because I've spoken to people around me and I've got access to certain things. And I guess for me personally, I would love The Line to be one of these spaces where, I don't know, it has some sort of academic program, training, and internship. And that's something that I have started trying out. I don't know where it's going to go. I feel like this is something that could take the next 10 years, it could take 20 years or something, I don't know. But I do recognize that, for instance, you've got places like Korea where the American animation was being outsourced to them and now they've just got incredible studios like Studio Mir for example. I think that's how you grow an industry. And I feel like the dream for me would be, reaching out to these places and training them up so that they can start. Eventually, we can outsource work to them and they grow and get better. And then they can start creating their own works, and then it trickles down to the schools and now you've got a thriving industry. So that's the kind of influence I would like the company to have.
Mack Garrison:
I really appreciate what you were saying on the community side. It's hard to give back when everything costs money, but one thing you can always do is time and attention. And just giving your time back to people knowing that when you were their age or that early part of your career, that that's what you really just needed is guidance. I think that's really critical. And I don't know, I know our industry is so community-focused, everyone's so nice and I think a lot of people are interested in that. And so I hope more people are doing the same thing you're talking about.
Wes Louis:
Right. Yeah, my short ‘The Mighty Grand Piton’ was big for me. I think the biggest shame for me would be if no one from the Caribbean works on it. I mean, voice actors and musicians, all that kind of stuff is not a problem over there, right, but animation is an area where there isn't really a market
Wes Louis:
It would be great to have everyone at a level where we can outsource work, but i've learned making a series isn't straightforward
Mack Garrison:
Right.
Wes Louis:
I think if you can have people out there on our types of productions I think it would be super beneficial. I think the same thing happened with Flying Bark, with Rise Of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles series. Having that type of project forced them to level up. That show is incredible. Now they’re so good now they can do that stuff by themselves. You know what I mean?
Mack Garrison:
Yeah.
Wes Louis:
So yeah, that kind of actually triggered the idea. So I think me doing it, isn’t about money or anything like that, it's like you said it's about time. It's one thing you talk about and talk about, but then I'm like, "You know what, let's dedicate time to it and make sure it's done. And then let's see what happens at the end of the year." And if at the end of the year where they feel like we've contributed something to them and they've used our resources, and they're able to talk to not just me, but some of the other partners and get some insights on how things are done, And if their work levels up, then I know it's working and I know that we're doing the right thing.
Mack Garrison:
I love it. Well you'll have to give us an update when you come to Raleigh on where some of that stuff is in the process. This was a really great convo. Thanks for hanging out with me for a bit.
Wes Louis:
Nice one, man. Nice to meet you and thanks for taking the time to talk to me as well.
Takeover Tuesday Reece Parker
An interview with Reece Parker: self-taught Animation Director and illustrator.
Q&A with Reece Parker.
Read time: 5min
Matea Losenegger:
Hi Reece! Thank you for contributing your time to our Tuesday Takeover series. Can you tell us a little about yourself and your work?
Reece Parker:
Of course! Thanks for having me. I'm Reece, self-taught Animation Director and illustrator. Subscriber to the famed philosophy "fake it til you make it'. My work leans hand drawn with dark color palettes, but I dive into briefs that range the full spectrum of 2D - and love it all. The more corporate, the more bright and poppy. The more Reece, the more scribbly and dark. 2 sides to one coin really.
Outside of work, I'm a husband and dad to 3 beautiful and intelligent children (Not sure if they actually have my DNA). I also grew up skateboarding religiously, which persists as the foundation of my own personal culture. Fail, start again, fall, get up, on and on. These things influence my work consistently.
Matea Losenegger:
You've been well known in this industry for a while now. How much has motion design changed since you started and what are your thoughts on its future?
Reece Parker:
I discovered and jumped into the industry in early 2016. It was a breeding ground of beautiful and inspired work, from every direction you looked. It was perfect for myself (and young artists like me), with an ambition to join the ranks of those considered great in our field. It was a beautiful time looking back. Empty bank account mind you - but a bursting industry and one that accepted me almost right away.
In 2023, it's still full of beautiful work, but you might have to dig a bit deeper to find it. Industry expanding, client deliverables following suit. But close-knit community might be shrinking a bit. That might be my own small perspective as I become more and more my own island. Or, maybe that's the natural progression of things. This industry is fascinating and beautiful, but maybe less curated and served up on a platter. It has certainly been a shifting landscape for the past several months.
Technology is doing its best to shake up working artists at the current point in time. We will see how that progresses, but I for one stand firmly in the "not worried...yet" camp. It's funny, I was just chatting with a legacy artist in our industry, whose work was among the first of which I was exposed to, about how we might be affected and the validity of our industry moving forward. We all share commonalities but have different perspectives.
To summarize my thoughts on that convo:
Real clients that deserve our protection are the ones that value our input and collaboration. Skillsets might be outsourced, but tastes and ideas are best formulated as a team and in collaboration with clients - relationships. This is something that isn't replaced by technology and is actually the most valuable. For clients that wish for cheaper, easier, faster, and shittier - those clients might flock to AI. Great! Let them. They also have to know exactly what it is they want, how many times have you encountered a client with that certainty..? Taste, ideas, expertise, and collaboration stand as powerful pillars in our industry - despite the tools.
I may eat my words, but Im comfortable with that if it comes in the future. Screens are king, and content is not decreasing in demand.
Looping gif from Reece’s reel.
Matea Losenegger:
As an expert in cel, what makes a compelling animation or character movement?
Reece Parker:
I found myself thinking about this the other day in-depth...by myself.
I think that answer might not be so obvious, animation is diverse - and styles range. Once you have an understanding of timing, you can manipulate it, exaggerate it, work in and out of many softwares, and it be equally beautiful completely realistic, or totally unique.
I think what makes great animation is great design. Strong posing. That's how I see it lately.
For cel or characters specifically, understanding how the body moves and how to position it in your animation. Action is formed first in our brains, and that is limited by our comprehension of how a character might react in reality. Then it can be manipulated or stylized appropriately per the creative, but the foundation is based in reality. Our level of comprehension of that reality "makes or breaks" our shots.
Matea Losenegger:
How did you develop your distinct visual style and how do you keep your ideas fresh?
Reece Parker:
My style is an exercise in evolving over time. I started in this industry with what I thought "motion graphics" was, that being clean vector shapes bopping around. Turns out I had only been exposed to a small (but impressive) corner of motion design at that time. I'm glad I was so short-sided, because the foundation of After Effects forward workflows really balanced my lifetime experience of drawing by hand. When the right time for me to be more artistically driven came along (rather than driven purely by survival) I found my hand-drawn roots ready for me to tap right in. That mixed with a new breadth of knowledge of a whole other form of artistry, more graphic and math driven. The combination of the 2 is really where my style lives. My preference might be to scribble on everything, but that's realistically not the right solution for everything - I understand that. My evolution through this industry has allowed me to deliver on "different" expertise' under the 2D umbrella with confidence and vision indiscriminately.
Still from Trifilm’s short for Microsoft.
Matea Losenegger:
In a similar vein, do you have any tips on how to combat burnout?
Reece Parker:
Burnout! The dreaded burnout. There's no one size fits all solution here. I have had small symptoms of burnout that I have powered through and left in the dust. Other times it has been more all-consuming. Depending on its severity, my first course is to identify it and try to trace it back to its inception. Might have been a lost pitch that I loved that has a lasting effect I wasn't considering. Could be anything! If It's correctly identified, it's a more seamless path through the tunnel and out the other side. If it's being ignored or unacknowledged, how can we realistically work through it? For me it's not always as simple as "take some time off", my work lives and breaths in my head - on and off the clock. "Taking time" off is only beneficial if I've overcome what's affecting me first.
Matea Losenegger:
On your site you say that "from time to time, I will join a project as an animator or illustrator- if the shoe fits." What about a project entices you into those roles?
Reece Parker:
Working in multiple capacities with clients allows me to be more particular about what I take on. It might be as simple as an awesome brief, don't get me wrong - I love this stuff. If there's something that seems challenging and interesting, then great. Or, It might be a legacy client that has supported me from the start, maybe they are in a bind, or maybe they only see me fitting the job. Great, let's knock it out. Relationships above my own ego, and I'm not in the business of burning those that have been there for me.
That being said, what I find most compelling in my current project landscape are projects that mix leadership and artistry. If I can take one shot, while directing the rest of the shots with an awesome team - I'm very stoked. Put simply, I've found that mix of responsibilities really suits my skillset, and the more I've done it the more clear that has become.
Shot from the TIMELORD spot for Battleaxe.
Matea Losenegger:
When pitching for projects, how do you make sure yours stand out in a sea of other amazing studios and artists?
Reece Parker:
I've been pitching like mad! Sometimes we snatch it, sometimes it blows away. It's the nature of the beast. Luckily I'm not completely reliant on pitching, so it's less depressing to be kicked aside. I don't consider myself wholly unique, I just try to be proud of what I present to clients. If I'm not proud of it, I know that there was more I could have poured into it. If I'm proud of it but it goes another way, then I wasn't the artist for the creative. It's really that simple. Stiff competition at the top of the mountain, really really stiff. But Im proud to be considered in those conversations so frequently now. Learning and absorbing all I can.
Matea Losenegger:
What's it like working for a studio like Hornet? What does it mean to be repped by a studio vs working for them as a staff member or freelancer?
Reece Parker:
They are great collaborators, and supportive. We are more intimately collaborative now, more open, and more frequent communication on and off jobs. I'm really excited to be partnered with them and excited about what the future brings.
Outside of that, I work as I always have. My independence is unshakably important to me, so I made sure that was clear in our negotiations. They were and have been supportive through and through.
Being "repped" means that Hornet (in my case, there are many reps) packages up my work and sells it through to their contacts and clients. If there are jobs that come in that feel like they fit my capabilities, they will poke me to see If I'm free and interested. If so, they pair me up with them in their communication and presentation to clients. From there, I champion the vision and creative treatment of the project. Client presentations, team building and expectations, project style and execution, etc. They help me resource the job, schedule it, budget it, communicate with clients, all the things that can be not so-fun solo.
Hornet's reach is as wide as it gets. They also serve a tier of client that Reece Parker as a solo act doesn't reach. They act as my team if we win the project together.
If I win a project solo, and want to bring them in, I also have that ability. Take some of the load off of my plate. But I also have the freedom to tackle it myself, as I have been doing comfortably for many years. Depends on the context rather than one size fits all.
Staff - Im not sure! I've never been staff anywhere but Taco Bell and Costco. Staff artists are there to support jobs that are being directed, and are assigned and scheduled according to their skillset. Hornet also has strong staff artists, that are super super helpful when building out teams in tandem with freelancers or if we can't resource freelance talent for whatever reason.
Freelance - freelancing has a bit more commonality with being repped, and with being staff. You are poked to join a project that is being directed, to fill a need on that production line. That project ends and you join the next team and next project. Instead of jumping to other people's creatives, I find myself more often owning the creative, and trying to source great talent to join me.
Gifs & illos.
Matea Losenegger:
As someone who is revered for their work, is there anything you would like people to know about you outside of your art?
Reece Parker:
The work may be revered, but I don't think Im special. I think the path I've carved may be at least partially unique but also serves as proof of concept for those willing to do the same. LOVE what you do, and keep working at it as a consequence.
Outside of work, I love life. I love my family to death. Wife, kids, parents, siblings, and friends alike. I've been really fortunate, I try to be considerate of that. I love overthinking, analyzing things with Kiara, building things with my dad, and teasing and dancing with my kids. I try to be carefree when it's beneficial to be, and take things seriously that ask for it. It's served me well in life.
I'm a product of independence, my path throughout my life is proof of that. Skateboarding is an individual activity, it's no coincidence that I have remained solo in my eventual career. But I'm not here without the influence and help of so many others. Indirectly or directly from those close to me. Shout out those folks! Much love.
Matea Losenegger:
What does the rest of 2023 look like for you? Are there any projects you're excited about?
Reece Parker:
Some interesting things! I am nearing the end of building out a new warehouse studio. Sort of a dream come true, but so is my current studio honestly. The new endeavor is symbolic of where the business is going, and I wouldn't have invested in it if the business hadn't earned it.
That's something I've really been contemplating. When I was commissioning my shipping container conversion in late 2019, I remember really carefully considering the financial implications of the commitment - mostly just full of anxiety and fear. But I did it because that was what the business deserved at the time. I had those same feelings and reservations about buying my first iMac, as a replacement workstation for my original MacBook that my wife secretly saved for and bought for me to start my career.
It seems so small now in comparison, but those memories serve as a strong example of my commitment to investing back into myself and the business when the time is right. You can feel it, and it's always scary. But the clear lesson is to invest in yourself.
Projects and new things are hush-hush for now, but yes I am excited, and will share more soon! Thanks, Dashers!
Takeover Tuesday with Juan Jose Diaz
An interview with Juan Jose Diaz: a Colombian Visual Artist that loves to give life to things with animation.
Q&A with Juan Jose Diaz.
Read time: 5min
Bella Alfonsi:
Hey, JJ! Thanks for taking over a Tuesday with us. Tell us who you are and what you create!
JJ:
Hey Dash Team; thank you so much for having me at Takeover Tuesday. I am Juan Jose Diaz or JJ! I am a Colombian Visual Artist that loves to give life to things with animation; I love to draw and experiment with timing, creating compelling visuals that communicate ideas.
Bella Alfonsi:
What made you make the move from Colombia to the US?
JJ:
I got pretty lucky because my uncle applied for a visa for my family. It took 14 years, but we finally made it, hehe, and the first time I traveled outside Colombia was to migrate to the US.
Transistor Studios - Valentine’s Day Post
Bella Alfonsi:
How has growing up in Colombia influenced you and your work?
JJ:
Oh, it has given me a lot of curiosity and allowed me to learn from artistic referents that use art to talk about serious social issues and reflect on different aspects of being human.
So I always look forward to applying that "idea first over the technique" approach.
Loop referencing the iconic comic "Akira,"
Bella Alfonsi:
Do you have any formal training or are you completely self taught?
JJ:
Yes, in 3D, I studied a 2-year program in 3D animation at night while I was studying Visual arts in college, a 5-year program that I did not finish because we had to migrate. But! of course, I have taken a bunch of online classes and read a bunch of books to improve my practice.
But at a distance, I go back to just wanting to draw, in whatever form that takes.
Bella Alfonsi:
Looking at your portfolio, it appears you are a cel animation wizard. Is this your favorite method of animation?
JJ:
Yes, after a couple of years dealing with the crashing of 3D software, I started to find it easier at the beginning to translate my ideas with drawings without having to be a generalist expert in 3D to model, texture, rig, render, etc.
Vegan World.
Bella Alfonsi:
What’s your workflow like when cel animating?
JJ:
First, thumbnails, where all the crazy ideas appear, tiny drawings trying out different compositions, thinking a lot on the negative space. Then translate that into some rough keyframes, and to find out the right timing, I do a bunch of tests just moving balls around (Everything is on the 12 principles); once that is done: time to do more rough frames, then the tie-down and finally the long process of cleaning so I get comfortable with a nice podcast or music and just work. I feel this is the time when animation gets closer to meditation.
Bella Alfonsi:
You’ve worked on a bunch of fun projects over the years, do you have a favorite?
JJ:
For a client, it will be the project for Baqsimi that I did with Ataboy Studios. I got to animate a dynamic scene and used my 3D background to block out the camera and reference the movement to translate that into drawings.
And a personal one will be the appropriation that I did of one of the Akira pages when in 2020, with all the racial issues going on in the US, I contributed with a loop reinterpreting Akira and the fight for human rights.
Project for Baqsimi which helps patients with diabetes.
Bella Alfonsi:
Who are some artists that you look up to and/or inspire you to create what you do?
JJ:
Sebacuri because his career amazed me, he has been able to develop a bunch of new skills seeing him going from being another motion designer to an illustrator with his own voice and making a living from that. And jonathan_djob_nkondo, because he is a master of timing, the way he works, those keyframes are definitely an artistic statement.
Bella Alfonsi:
What are you most proud of in your career thus far?
Rohan McDonald:
Being in a place I never imagined, not even two years ago, having met incredible people along the way, and having a career that supports my hobbies between extreme sports and travel.
Short animated piece for the LA Galaxy soccer team.
Bella Alfonsi:
Any advice/final takeaways?
Rohan McDonald:
Life is an incredible ride full of surprises. You will never know where you will be in 10 years, so keep learning about everything, not just art; keep making mistakes and make sure you take care of YOURSELF!
Takeover Tuesday Rohan McDonald
Dash animator, Bella Alfonsi interviewed animator, illustrator, and director, Rohan McDonald and we’ve got the scoop on it all!
Q&A with Rohan McDonald.
Read time: 5min
Bella Alfonsi:
Rohan! Thanks so much for being a part of our Tuesday Takeover series. For those who are unfamiliar with you or your work, please tell us a bit about yourself and what you do!
Rohan McDonald:
Thank you all for having me!
I’m an animator, illustrator, and director based in Boston, MA, USA. I create work from a 2D hand drawn perspective, primarily focusing on cel animation. I also love working with printed media and reading independent and self published comics. Beyond that, I enjoy rock climbing with my fiance, tinkering with music production and composition (occasionally), and repeatedly watching the Lord of the Rings behind the scenes documentaries.
Bella Alfonsi:
What inspired you to get into the motion design world?
Rohan McDonald:
I didn’t really understand that motion design was an option for me until sophomore year of college. I went to the School of the Art Institute of Chicago (SAIC) thinking I would be some combination of a painter and editorial illustrator. It became apparent rather quickly that I wasn’t a painter, at least in a fine art setting. In my first few years of school I felt like I had something to prove, so every piece would be about trying to impress people or show off. My painting professor at the time even went so far as to say “Rohan, you’re a really nice guy, but this is terrible.” After that righteous burn, I reconsidered what I was interested in, and came to the conclusion that I just love drawing. So I signed up for Intro to hand drawn animation, which was entirely on paper and entirely about drawing. I loved film and TV and also did some theater as a kid, so it was the perfect combination of acting, drawing, and film for me.
After that class, I wanted more digital animation skills. That’s when I got a crash course in photoshop, After Effects, and how to bring your hand-drawn paper work into digital space. The work we watched in that class brought me closer and closer to motion design as a future career. I would talk to professors outside of class about how to achieve certain looks I was going for and what to watch. So I sought out things like “Late Night Work Club,” where I saw films from artists like Nicolas Menard, Charles Huettner, and Alex Grigg. Then people like Sophie Koko Gate, Caitlin McCarthy and “Parallel Teeth,” appeared on my radar. All of these artists showed me that there was a really intriguing mix of graphic design, print media aesthetics, and cel animation to experiment with. I remember just feeling excited to get out into that world, even just to make commercial work, because I could play.
I then cold emailed every studio/agency in Chicago that created work in the motion design space. I sent over a short 30s reel in search of an internship, a part time job, anything really. I got a fair amount of responses! At the time that was surprising, but the Chicago motion design community is really small, tight knit, and welcoming.
I ended up at Demo Duck as an intern. After my internship, I worked part time at Demo Duck until I graduated. Then Demo Duck hired me full time as a junior art director! I spent the next 3 and a half years at Demo Duck and learned so much on the job, eventually being promoted to Art Director. It was like going to grad school, but without the debt. I really got to put in the time and see Demo Duck grow as a company, in addition to seeing the industry grow and thrive.
“Thanks for Asking” project with Demo Duck
Bella Alfonsi:
Do you have any kind of formal training or are you completely self taught?
Rohan McDonald:
This is a hard one. I definitely have formal training in cel animation and some in drawing overall. But when it comes to graphic design, and digital animation, I learned through a mix of more general SAIC courses, YouTube tutorials, and asking people how they did things. In addition to my own painstaking trial and error. However, I owe a lot to my SAIC professors Joel Benjamin, Shelley Dodson, Matt Marsden, and Jim Trainor, who taught me how to think about film and motion media overall.
When it comes to more soft skills (client communication, organization, timelines + budgeting) and motion design specific stuff, I really learned through immersion. Through Demo duck, I got to go to conferences like Blend and Comotion, in addition to working with amazing freelancers like Zak Tietjen, Milton and Valeria from Notreal, and Martiniano Garcia Cornejo from Fu Imagery (to name a few). I also got to work with the best in house team of producers, art directors, creative directors, and writers, all of whom taught me so much and supported my independent work and my career growth. It was a working experience that really spoiled me in the best way, and gave me lifelong friendships.
Frame from Rohan McDonald’s 2021 Reel
Bella Alfonsi:
As someone who does both animation and illustration/design, do you prefer to do one over the other and why?
Rohan McDonald:
It really depends! I go through waves. Sometimes I’m really tired of animation and sometimes I’m tired of design.
It also depends on the style I’m working with. For certain styles, I like doing more design and illustration rather than motion, and for other styles I like taking more ownership of the entire pipeline. It also depends on the structure of the project: Am I going through an agency, through another director/studio, or is it direct to client? That being said, I love the pre-pro development side of things. And that’s often times a design + motion test kind of process.
But at a distance, I go back to just wanting to draw, in whatever form that takes.
Bella Alfonsi:
Animating by hand is a great way to fully understand the principles of animation and have complete control over what you’re creating. Do you think it’s important that all animators know how to do it the good ol’ fashioned way (by hand)?
Rohan McDonald:
Another hard one! Before I answer this fully, I have a hot take: not all of the 12 traditional animation principles have to be your bible (side note: the “Appeal” principle really frustrates me and feels like an unhelpful and subjective Richard Williams-ism). I know, I know, controversial.
I think animation now is so diverse, experimental, and often times technology driven, to the point where you can accomplish a lot in motion design without having the hand drawn animation background. That being said, you need to know how to think about animation and understand why something might not be working. That’s where an awareness of traditional animation principles comes into play.
So let’s say your simple mograph match cut transition is looking abrupt and startling. Having awareness of traditional animation ideas like anticipation, follow through, and timing will help you tweak that speed graph or adjust the distance between those keyframes to smooth it out. So no, I don’t think people need to know how to hand-draw animation, but knowing the thinking behind the old ways will make you a strong animation warrior.
SupplyFrame NPI Explainer Video
Bella Alfonsi:
I’m sure it’s hard to pick, but do you have a favorite project you’ve worked on?
Rohan McDonald:
I’ve gotten to be part of a lot of great projects in the past few years. One that stands out to me is a project from early 2021, which was a really simple but “vibey” music video for Liam Kazar’s song “Nothing To You.” I had a lot of freedom and I didn’t plan a lot of things out. And interestingly enough, it wasn’t a cel animated project. I just jumped into After Effects with a few rough designs and created tons of loops. Working with that type of improvisation is really fun and low pressure. I’m excited to do more of that in my personal work.
Frame from Liam Kazar’s song “Nothing To You” music video.
Bella Alfonsi:
Your portfolio is full of so many different art styles-from simple shapes with minimal color to more illustrative with lots of bright colors-do you have a favorite style to work in?
Rohan McDonald:
It’s been hard for me to focus on any particular style, or set of tools to work with. I love trying out a style and then trying to add something new, or just explore how I do it specifically. That being said, I usually start off with a line-based pen sketch, so I tend to gravitate towards a line-based illustrative style.
I think there’s a frustrating notion that you have to “find your style” to get work or be noticed as an illustrator and animator. And to some extent that is true. But I have another hot take here: having a style doesn’t have to mean doing the same type of thing over and over again. It can be finding out how your specific perspective translates to different mediums, color palettes, and tools. While algorithms love consistency, oftentimes you can recognize someone’s creative voice no matter what medium they’re in, as long as they’ve experimented and cultivated that voice (which I still struggle with sometimes).
Bella Alfonsi:
What’s the workflow like for a freelance director? Are there any big challenges you’ve had to overcome?
Rohan McDonald:
I’ve been part time freelancing for a while, but 2022 was my first year as a full time freelancer, so there were a ton of challenges!
To be honest, my biggest challenges have been messaging/making sure people understand my offerings while balancing direction projects vs. projects with more specific roles (i.e. cel animator, AE animator, storyboard artist, illustrator). I think this is where my previous point about style becomes relevant. I do a lot of different things, and so I have a lot of different types of projects come along, so I have to plan my time in a way that allows me to flex all those different muscles effectively. Without that stylistic focus, sometimes my freelance workflow has to be re-thought and adapted. And that’s rewarding, but difficult!
Still frame from “Rooms.”
Bella Alfonsi:
“Rooms” is a really fun piece and I love the unique take on connecting mental space with physical space. I see that it’s also been featured on Motionographer, Aeon Magazine, Good Moves, and on Vimeo’s Staff Pick (congrats!!). Can you tell us a bit more about this one and how it came to be?
Rohan McDonald:
Thank you! “Rooms” started out as a series of risograph printed artbooks that I created with my college roommates Lucas Reif and Austin White, who are both amazing designers and collaborators. They had been working through “ShelfShelf,” a small publishing collective. I don’t remember who had the idea to interview people about their spaces, but we all ran with it and conducted our own interviews with family and friends. Lucas and Austin handled the type design, layout, and printing. Then I did all the illustration, and helped with file set up and assembly. We really love the way they turned out and I thought there was a film in there as well. The illustrations were so fun to draw and I thought it would be even more fun to make them move. This was around 2018.
Cut to the pandemic and everyone is experiencing some awareness of physical space and mental space. Everyone remembers how it felt. I used that time to truly investigate how this film could work and what narratives I could find in common between interviewees. I combed through all of our audio, and what started off as a ten minute film was edited down to around two minutes (dodged a bullet there).
The biggest production challenge was creating a workflow that didn’t feel stale or forced. I was working full time at home and it was difficult to find the intrigue and joy in creative work sometimes, especially when going from one screen to another. So I decided to do two things differently: Use rough animator on my iPad for all the rough animation, and delve into Animate CC, a software I hadn’t used a ton at that point. Rough animator allowed me to work more spontaneously and Animate CC gave me clean lines and quick fills that I could apply subtle effects to in AE. Changing up my process really worked out this time around, and Rooms came together with the help of two additional animators (Sofia Diaz, Dena Springer) and a sound designer/composer (Limes and Cherries).
I’m very happy I took my time with it, and I learned a lot. Although I’m glad my girlfriend at the time (now fiancé) pushed me to finish it.
Bella Alfonsi:
Any advice/final takeaways?
Rohan McDonald:
There are always multiple ways to do something, especially in animation. Not everyone needs the perfect AE script or the latest plugin to make things work. Just explore and find the way that you like to do things! And I’m also still trying to figure out how I do things. That will be a lifelong pursuit!
Takeover Tuesday with Liz Galian
An interview with Liz Galian, a freelance designer and illustrator based in Brooklyn.
Q&A with Liz Galian
Read time: 5min
Madison Caprara:
Hi, Liz! Let’s kick off our chat with an introduction to yourself; who are you, what is it that you do, and how did you find yourself where you are today?
Liz Galian:
Hi Madison! I’m a freelance animator and illustrator based in Brooklyn. These days I find myself doing mostly character design and animation, which is a lot of fun for me. As a kid I really loved drawing portraits, so it’s kind of funny that my career meandered me back to that.
Madison Caprara:
What made you want to pursue animation and design as a career? Was there anything specific you saw or experienced, or was it an interest that gradually grew over time?
Liz Galian:
Initially I really just wanted to be an illustrator! My grandfather was an illustrator for a greeting card company and we had his work hanging all over my home growing up. Because of that, I was really privileged to have artistically supportive parents. They encouraged me to go to art school from a very young age, which is so rare. Then, toward the end of my college career I took an animation class on a whim and completely fell in love with it. From there, the more I learned about the motion graphics industry, the more I felt at home there! It’s such an amazing intersection between illustration, design, and animation — and because of that, I get to do the two things I love most without having to choose.
Adobe Max - Liz Galian
Madison Caprara:
How would you go about describing your signature style or “look”?
Liz Galian:
I’ve always been drawn to really bright, warm colors. These days the style that comes most naturally to me is 2D, graphic, and whimsical. I think a lot of that has to do with how fast projects move in this industry, and the worry that a design will be difficult to animate if it isn’t as simple as possible. I’ve been told that my animating style has a softer flow to it and is usually mistaken as being mostly cel animated (in reality, it’s usually after effects!).
Madison Caprara:
I see that you recently dropped a new reel. It looks great! Are there any particular do's and don't’s that you feel newer creatives and/or students should know before creating and sending a reel out?
Liz Galian:
Thanks so much! The thing I love about reels is that it gets to be a documentation of a few years of your life and your work, where you get to see how much you’ve grown. Every time I post a new reel, it feels like a little celebration. I would say the biggest piece of advice to someone just starting out, is to use their reel as an opportunity to curate what they’re most proud of and experiment with how you can best showcase it. There aren’t any hard and fast rules for what music to use, what aspect ratio it needs to be in, how fast the cuts are, etc. I would say just keep it under a minute and fifteen seconds, and don’t steal other people’s work (obviously) — but beyond that, make it your own and have fun with it!.
2022 REEL - Liz Galian
Madison Caprara:
What kinds of projects are you currently working on and which has been your favorite so far?
Liz Galian:
My last big project was my reel, so now I’m taking a breather before I dive back into personal projects. This year I want to put more of an emphasis on the illustration side of my art practice, which I think takes a bit of a back seat to the animation side in my day-to-day life. I’ve been working on a deck of Tarot cards in my free time, so I think that might become the first side project I get serious about finishing!
My favorite project I’ve done so far is actually a smaller one I did with Mailchimp in 2020. I had the space to explore a new workflow I hadn’t used before, where I made draft animations in after effects and then traced over them in photoshop. This let me figure out the beats of each animation really quickly, and then invest most of my time in really playing with the line quality I could get out of the really gorgeous photoshop brushes Mailchimp uses. Usually when I cel animate, I do the entire project in one program and had never really given myself permission to mix AE animation with cel animation. That project showed me that every project calls for a new way of execution, and that there’s really no wrong way to get things done.
Madison Caprara:
We’re coming up on two years of living in this pandemic-ruled world–which is crazy to me. Has your life (and work) changed drastically in that period of time?
Liz Galian:
Definitely, but for the better I think! I was already doing a little bit of remote freelancing before the pandemic, mostly when I was art directing with an all-female studio in South Africa called Batch. At the time I remember wishing that more studios were open to working with people remotely, as a lot of studios and artists I really admired and wanted to work with were on the other side of the US. The new work-from-home norm over the past two years has made it possible for me to make new relationships with amazing people I never would have been able to work with, which I’m so thankful for.
The pandemic also made me take a hard look at how little I prioritized my personal life and my health. I started exercising and spending more time with my friends and family, saying no to jobs that asked for too much, and giving myself more grace when I was tired or burnt out. Its caused a big shift in me as a person. Unexpectedly, I think my work has also gotten better because of it.
Mailchimp - Liz Galian
Madison Caprara:
What practices did you implement to keep your sanity?
Liz Galian:
I’m really into puzzles, so that’s kept me sane! I try to do a little sudoku or a crossword every day, though those have taken a back seat lately to Wordle. I’m also a big book worm, so not having to travel to work every day gives me time to have my coffee and read a chapter or two before I start work in the morning. My favorite thing I’ve read so far during the pandemic is “Understanding Comics” by Scott McCloud. It weirdly helped me learn a lot about pacing in storytelling and all of the visual ways that you can communicate it. I highly recommend it for anyone who animates (or is into comics!)
Madison Caprara:
In your opinion, for someone aspiring to be an animator, how much knowledge outside of animating is required? Can someone who has more of a fine art background make it, or is a higher technical knowledge needed early on?
Liz Galian:
I’m biased because I went into art school not knowing what Adobe was, how to open photoshop, or how animation worked at all. I think like anything, animation is a skill that comes with years of practice, and if you decide to put the hours in, no matter where you start and what background you come from, you’ll get good at it. Nobody is inherently highly skilled at anything on their first try, so the only barrier anyone can face at a skill they want is whether or not they want it badly enough to keep practicing. The internet has endless resources and the animation community is really welcoming and helpful!
Skull Animation - Liz Galian
Madison Caprara:
On the flip side, what about those more traditional art skills? For someone who wants to be an animator, how important is it for them to have drawing skills?
Liz Galian:
I think it depends on the kind of animation you want to do. If you’re interested in cel animation, drawing is a skill you might want to invest time in. If you’re interesting in more traditional mograph-y styles and after effects heavy animation, I don’t think having drawing skills is necessary.
There are so many animators who aren’t illustrators, and they still make amazing work! A lot of studios have animators and illustrators on separate teams, so the animators are receiving the artwork that’s already been made and animating from there. There are so many pockets in this industry with different needs, so not having drawing skills isn’t a make-or-break for your career. On the flip side though, if you want to start drawing there are so many resources online that can help. School of Motion, Skillshare, and Youtube are full of classes and tutorials that will give you tips and tricks. In pre-pandemic days, most local colleges and community arts centers offered life drawing classes (usually low commitment weekend ones for fun!), so if you have that as an available resource I’d recommend giving that a shot as well!
Madison Caprara:
Where do you go for inspiration when you find yourself in a creative rut?
Liz Galian:
When I’m feeling a little creatively lost or when I’m burnt out, I go for a walk through The Met. It’s so big that I’m convinced that there are corners of it that I haven’t walked through yet, and I can always find a collection in there that I haven’t seen yet that will spark an idea. It’s also just really calming and meditative to spend a quiet afternoon there with no expectations and see what catches your eye naturally.
NETFLIX'S The Mind - Liz Galian
Madison Caprara:
Is there anything, in particular, you would like to end the interview with?
Liz Galian:
I feel like a lot of what we’ve been talking about how and where best to start if you want to be an animator. When I was starting out, I wish that someone had told me to be braver and reach out to people who’s work I admired and ask more questions. People in this industry are so incredibly kind and generous with their advice and with their time, and everyone wants to see everyone else succeed. So I’d encourage students and people just starting their career to ask questions, be open to learning new things, and remember that everything comes in time!