Meet the speakers: Ozlem Akturk
An interview with Ozlem “Ozi” Akturk, an Annie Award-winning creator, cinematographer, and producer in stop motion and mixed media with over 15 years of experience in film and animation.
Q&A hosted by Meryn Hayes & Cory Livengood.
Read time: 15min
Meryn Hayes:
It’s great to meet you! I would love to hear a little bit about how you got into cinematography in the first place.
Ozlem Akturk:
Well, in the first place, I was always into art and also photography. When I was a teenager, I saved up money and bought my first DSLR camera. It was a Pentax 35mm SLR camera. From there, I started shooting in black and white, still photography. I loved it, but I also had a love for movies. First I tried to get into art and photography, but then I had the chance to listen to a lecture at a university when I was young and they did animation and also 16mm film workshops. That experience made me realize that there was the possibility to study film and animation.
With that knowledge, I started looking for Universities all around Germany with the focus on film and animation. I love stop motion, but it was a niche everywhere, and mostly in Germany it was more of one. I found a place in Stuttgart and went to study there. I studied film and animation. We could do everything there: animation, filming, motion control. That got me way closer to working with the right tools, that made me realize I would love to do a real stop-motion short with fellow students.
Looking back, we all thought, "Oh, this is so great," and we are great. No, looking back it's horrible. Stuttgart also has a big animation film festival, the biggest in Germany. They invited international people for lectures and there was this guy Christian De Vita who was working on Fantastic Mr. Fox as the storyboard artist. After his lecture, I went to him and asked if he had contacts or knew if there's another stop-motion feature film planned.
It was indeed, Frankenweenie. He gave me the line producer's email address. I applied, a month later he replied back and said, "Yeah, we are still in pre-production. We are interested. It's happening in London." I was in Stuttgart. "Are you interested in moving to London?" I'm like, "Hell yes!" Then that's how my journey started. I went straight into Frankenweenie and what a dream. Because of my technical background, the camera crew wanted me to be there as a trainee.
They loved what I was doing and I worked my way up to become a camera assistant. Yeah, it was two years on Frankenweenie, because again, stop motion takes such a long time, but it was magic, wonderland.
Cory Livengood:
What are some of the differences between your live-action, traditional cinematography and pivoting over to stop motion?
Ozlem Akturk:
Well, as I mentioned, stop motion takes a lot of time. Live action, you shoot, have a little discussion and then you just continue shooting. On stop motion, depending how long the scene is, a second is the animator has to shoot 24 frames. If it's animated on ones, if it's animated on twos, it's a bit faster, 12 frames. But it's time, it's actually time. And a huge amount of details you put into it. It's less forgiving when someone kicks just a bit of light. If the light bulb pops and you have to replace it, you can immediately see the change. In live action, you don't have those problems.
Cory Livengood:
Is The Tiny Chef shot on ones or twos or depends?
Ozlem Akturk:
It's mainly shot on twos. On feature films, it's mainly on ones., but they have the budgets to do it. The other thing is whenever we have motion control, we have to do it on ones, because otherwise, the camera moves frame by frame. If the animator doesn't animate the second frame, you will see that.
Cory Livengood:
I would love to know a little bit of the inspiration. What inspires you as a cinematographer in the outside world? What do you see and bring to your sets?
Ozlem Akturk:
Oh, well, it's always nature, isn't it? Although I also like to get inspired by other people’s work and art as well and think internally about how to adapt it to my scenes.
Cory Livengood:
He does live in a stump, I guess that makes sense.
The Tiny Shef’s Stump
Ozlem Akturk:
Yeah, nature is one of those things. We always try to get some dapples, so it looks like from the top, light is coming through. Who knows? Through plants or leaves. I'm trying to get some structure into the background, some dapples with the lights, so that has a nice wrap around it. But then again, I work on a really small set, where it's sometimes really difficult to get the lights properly in. You just have to cheat a lot or sometimes you just go with it.
The other thing I love is when you can put practicals in it. Nowadays, LEDs are so helpful and powerful despite their small size. We sometimes have...oh, I have to build my own little lights and just put it into the scene, which I also love just working with miniature.
Cory Livengood:
Yeah, that's interesting. How much overlap is there between you and the set designer and fabricators and stuff like that? It sounds like you work hand in hand.
Ozlem Akturk:
Yes, that is right. We are in such close communication. Every time, we have to. There's no way around it. Yeah, it works perfectly. Jason is amazing, he's our production designer, and he's doing such great work and is very hands-on.
The Tiny Chef on-set.
Cory Livengood:
How did you end up meeting Adam Reid and Rachel Larsen and coming up with this idea for the Tiny Chef? What was the synthesis of that idea?
Ozlem Akturk:
Well, I worked with Rachel on Isle of Dogs. We became friends and then after Isle of Dogs, everyone went their own path, but on Isle of Dogs, she showed me she had that green little puppet, but she didn't know what to do with it. So that went back into a box. In 2018, I wanted to do a live-action cooking show, my own project, because I was burned out from doing jobs for other people. I was like, it's not satisfying anymore. I was like, okay, let's focus on your own project. Because I was pushing it away and I was looking for a proper kitchen location, I was on a location scout.
Then Rachel was in New Zealand doing another animation series called Kiri and Lou. She was working there as an animator, but she started on her Instagram account doing miniature food. It looked really real. That just gave me the idea. I instantly contacted her, I was like, "Girl! Let's do a stop-motion cooking show, and your character, let's call him the Tiny Chef. He's the main character."
She instantly loved it. From there, we instantly got on Facebook, social media, Instagram, and YouTube to get the name, and see if that name was available. From there, we grabbed everything, and kicked it off. I told her, "We need an apron, we need a chef's hat." She did it. The next day, she built a chef's hat, but she didn't have an apron.
Cory Livengood:
It's really blown up so quickly too, which is just really crazy.
Ozlem Akturk:
Yeah, it was crazy. It was crazy. I instantly booked the flight to New Zealand and we were like, "We're going to bloody do this," and we did it. The moment I went to New Zealand, I helped again, setting up, lighting the first kitchen set. We did a couple of clips.
Matt Hutchinson is the voice of chef and that's Rachel's sister's husband. He always did that voice and she was like, "It might fit," and it did. It's crazy how everything just came together. Adam saw what we did and he wrote to us. Rachel knew Adam from a festival. He helped us with the website and that's how we came together.
Cory Livengood:
That's crazy. The moral of that story to me just seems like putting yourself out there, meeting people, and just never letting go of those connections. Or not being so worried that something's going to happen right in the moment, but you can come back to it years later. The fact that the Tiny Chef puppet was put in a box and it was later on, here's the idea. Like you said, meeting people at a festival or on a job or whatever it might be, and just cultivating those connections with people..
Ozlem Akturk:
The other thing is you don't have to do it alone. We are surrounded by so many creative people. If you find like-minded people and you feel like you can work together, then definitely do it as a team. It makes such a big difference to go through challenges together and push you up together.
Meryn Hayes:
What do you think about the Tiny Chef that just struck everyone?
Ozlem Akturk:
We had the idea, we wanted kindness and a change, showing people should be kind and also environmentally friendly. We are wasting so much food and we use so much material. We wanted to integrate it with him, as representing him as a soul of the earth and being kind, gentle, loving animals, avoiding littering everywhere, and just being mindful towards the future and hopefully doing a great impact on kids especially, but then we got so many grownups as followers, which is so funny. But it's great. I love that it attracts every age group.
Meryn Hayes:
I also love that with the world being so chaotic at times, just a reminder that being kind and reminder that we've got one earth. All of that kindness is important, and especially instilling that at such a young age for kids, it's just so important.
Ozlem Akturk:
Yeah. That's also why he's vegan. It's not that you have to be vegan, but just to introduce it to people who don't have a clue what it means.
The Tiny Chef making soup.
Cory Livengood:
It definitely normalizes being vegan or being vegetarian, which is cool. What was it like when Tiny Chef went from a social media phenomenon to television?
Ozlem Akturk:
Well, the thing is, every storyline has a truth. It's all the things we went through, it took such a long time to find a network. I say a long time but on the other hand, if you compare it to other creators, we are in a fast lane.
Normally, it takes a minimum five years until you might get a show. We had a high interest of networks, but again, it took so long and it was such back and forth. That fear. Are you going to get it or not? We thought, we just put it in and he goes through the same story. Yeah, it's actually what we lived through.
Meryn Hayes:
How did that production timelines change from when y'all were doing it on your end and then for Nickelodeon? Did that change your process at all?
Ozlem Akturk:
Oh, yeah. You have to wait for approval and that takes a long time. You see it, and on social media, we have an idea and we instantly just flip it over and make it so we are just on it. That's how we also build up the social media accounts so quickly, because we are not discussing too much. We have a brilliant idea. Everyone is laughing. Every time when we know everyone is laughing, that's the idea. We just do it.
On the TV show, you have to wait for approval and have discussions with executives in LA to get the go. You have to understand the show was shot in Manchester UK and being in the UK and working with the 8 hour time difference just made it slower too before getting an answer.
Cory Livengood:
You attracted Kristen Bell, which is really funny. I love that she's a regular on the show now and also a producer, is that correct?
Ozlem Akturk:
Yeah, she's also a producer, she's helping us. She's amazing.
The Tiny Chef and Kristen Bell on S1 E1 ‘Pancakes/S’Mores’
Cory Livengood:
Yeah, I know. It's hilarious. I was just watching before the interview. One of the episodes where they're just chatting on the phone with each other, Tiny Chef and Kristen just cracks me up. It's so funny. Did she just see it on social media and decide she wanted to be a part of that? How did that relationship form?
Ozlem Akturk:
Jackie Tohn found us first because she was obsessed with miniatures and she introduced us to Kristen Bell. Jackie Tohn is really good friends with Kristen Bell. Kristen Bell contacted us and said, "Hey, love what you're doing, and let me know if I can help you guys."
We are like, "Hell yes." We met with her. As you know, she has the production company, Dunshire Productions with Morgan Sackett and a couple of other creatives. She was saying how she could help us. We were instantly, "Yeah, all right. Let's partner up." As a person and Pro, she's amazing. No bullshit.
Cory Livengood:
Well, stop motion takes so long to do, that you don't need everything else to take so long to do. You just need to cut to the chase.
Ozlem Akturk:
But it still takes such a long time. I wish people would react quickly, but no. Especially again, when so many people are involved, you have to be patient and it's okay.
Cory Livengood:
Some of the things I really like about the cinematography of the show, you mentioned one of them, which are the practical lights that you've integrated into the sets and stuff like that. I think that's really cool.
Another thing I like is the depth of field. There are a lot of shots that have a lot of focus depth to them, which must be difficult to achieve. I don't know if there's any tips or tricks or ways of shooting that you've found or anything that allow you to achieve results that are a little bit more traditional feeling in that sense.
Ozlem Akturk:
As in live-action, you have a focus puller, second camera assistant. On this one, you have just an animator. What I do is, if it's really a difficult shot, where the character moves back and forth, then I work with the animator, because he will need to animate the depth of field too.
I will go with him through the points where he starts and ends, and a third point for the middle, I line it up on the lens, mark it up, and also show him how to do it. Because another thing is when you make a mistake and you have to redo the frame, you have to go back with the focus too. But the thing is, because it still lenses, the lens breadth in it. If you go in the wrong direction, it might jitter. I had to tell him that he goes over the point and then goes back in the right direction, so it goes in the right direction again when he rotates it.
Cory Livengood:
The attention to detail that I have to overshoot just to push it the right way so you're in the right groove to animate your focus. That's really interesting.
Ozlem Akturk:
But then again, if you have a bigger budget because, in feature films, we don't let the animator do that. Dragonframe is a stop motion program, which also can control the motion control. Then it's all automated, but again, you have to speak to the animator again to find those start and end positions and the middle point, but the difference is you have the tool which does it automatically
Another thing you do on a feature film, you block it through with everything, just a rough block just to see the focus hit the point. Then he goes for the real animation, but again, on TV stop-motion, you barely have time to block it. You have to go straight to it. Then the safest thing is the animator just does it himself. They are so good, but then again, it adds to the timing for him to finish the shot.
Cory Livengood:
Another thing you do a lot of, which is interesting, is to have Tiny Chef interact with real people in the same shot, which is really cool. I wonder, how much post-production work goes into some of those composite shots, or maybe just in the show in general when putting it together after the shoot?
Ozlem Akturk:
It all depends. The easiest is when they don't cross. That's really little post-production. It's just finding the places where it's the easiest to cut around and then getting the color to the same ratio, so you don't see the line where it's merged. The moment where they cross live-action and Chef, we will need to use a blue screen. Then, of course, that's more work for post-production to clean it up. But yeah, I love it. Just having the challenge and seeing him in the real world.
That's why we are also looking into new technology. Hopefully, who knows? Another thing is we would like to do handheld shots and hopefully build a CGI pipeline to have more and more in crowded situations and outside. We would take plates, film them, and then integrate the CGI into that scene. Hopefully, in a year, you have to always update your knowledge and technology and also implement it. Of course, we are going to keep doing what we love. Stop motion is always our first love, but we also want to push quality, and challenges and want to make sure people think he's real.
Cory Livengood"
Yeah. He is real. What do you mean?
Not only even in the world of video, but you also have books now. What's in the future for Tiny Chef, as far as just the universe goes?
Ozlem Akturk:
Well, the world is our oyster, right? It would be amazing as just said, if we can integrate more into the world and interact more with people outside being in a restaurant. Then the other thing is we would love to do a cooking game or maybe also... what would be amazing, a virtual reality game. People can be in his stump and have to do things as a chef. I don't know, that would be amazing, but continue building his universe.
Meryn Hayes:
I just hear all that and have to think through the business potential and the licensing and the contracts, and as someone who comes from a creative background, how do you navigate that side of this, which is the financials and protecting the copyright? A lot of the people that are coming to this festival, if they're freelancers, they've come into this as artists and are trying to learn the business end as they go. What advice do you have for people on the business side?
Ozlem Akturk:
On the business side. When we started, we knew we didn't want to sell the chef. We wanted to keep the rights as much as possible. That was the first mission. Without anyone agreeing to it, we weren't ready to go and contract with them. We protected our idea. We were really hard with that, but then on the other side, we had the leverage because a lot of people don't have we could build him up on social media and make a brand out of it. I think a lot of creative people struggle with that.
It's tough. They are all sharks and they want to take it away. It's sad, but it is what it is. The thing is, if you have a project where you are behind it with heart, you have to weigh in. If you take the money, you have to play with their rules. Or are you going to try it the hard way and go your own way without any financial help? Then hope you can sell merchandise and make money like that and support yourself, but that's really a long way and hard as well.
We tried that, but our problem is again stop motion, you have to see it as live-action because everything is physical. You have to build it. It's the same people we hire, you would hire for live-action to build stuff. It is expensive and we needed more investments. We said, "Okay, we need the network." That helped a lot, but again, our first mission was to protect the idea.
Meryn Hayes:
It sounds like you and Rachel and Adam had talked about that, the heart or the money, which is a very hard balance, especially early on. You need the money, but coming to the network saying, "We're keeping him, we're keeping Tiny Chef," that's great.
Ozlem Akturk:
Well, when we started, we were working on other projects and we did the extra hours at night. On the weekends, we still do weekends and nights, but anyway, we did the normal jobs or freelance jobs just to get money in. Then we focused on our free time on the Tiny Chef. We were like, we’re going to continue like that, but we're not going to sell it, because we desperately need money.
We protected it really, really well. Nickelodeon was willing to go with our needs and wishes.
Meryn Hayes:
Good for y'all. What advice do you have for someone who's just getting started or wants to get into stop motion or want to make their version of The Tiny Chef type passion project? What advice do you have for people?
Ozlem Akturk
If they want to see the professional side, I would say apply at one of the big studios, Laika or ShadowMachine ... these are in Portland. If you are in LA, then they're smaller stop-motion companies. There’s also Stoopid Buddy Stoodios, Bix Pix, and Apartment D.
I would say just write them, write to everyone. Be specific about what you like to do, but be willing to do anything when they ask you. You have to go through that process. Ask questions, a lot of questions. People are so kind, especially in stop motion ... they're amazing, seriously. Yeah, they're all chill and they will take the time and show you. Nothing to be afraid of. If you want to do it yourself, you can do that too. Nowadays, it's so easy, even with your iPhone, you can connect it with Dragonframe and take stop frames. You don't even need a fancy camera. Then just an easy light setup. Again, whatever you have in the house, if it's like a desk lamp or something, use that just to get a feel about how it works. If you want to become an animator or building stuff, just do it.
Again, there are so many tutorials on YouTube. You can find so much if you Google, it's ridiculous. But if you want to have professional insights, you should try to apply at those companies. Get the connection and networking game on.
Meryn Hayes:
I love hearing how welcoming the community is. I think it's really special that in these communities, people are so willing to help other people who are trying to get into it or offer advice. I think it's just one of the reasons why we do the Bash, is to let the community have a point where they can meet and talk and ask questions and get advice and help. I just love hearing that the stop-motion community is as welcoming.
Ozlem Akturk:
Yeah, it is. Everyone's so nice. It's unbelievable. I never worked in a kinder environment.
Cory Livengood:
This has been a great conversation. We really, really appreciate it.
Ozlem Akturk:
Oh, I appreciate you guys. Again, respect what you guys are doing and it is such a pleasure meeting you.
Cory Livengood:
Yeah, likewise.
Meryn Hayes:
Really excited to see you in July!
Takeover Tuesday with Lili Boisrond
An interview with Lili Boisrond: a mixed media artist specializing in animation and design.
Q&A with Lili Boisrond.
Read time: 5min
Bella Alfonsi:
Thanks so much for joining us for Takeover Tuesday, Lili! For those who aren’t familiar with you or your work, please give us a lil’ intro!
Lili Boisrond:
Hi! My name is Lili, I’m a mixed media artist specializing in animation and design. I grew up in Paris and headed to NYC for university where I ended up staying for 8 years. I’m now back in Europe and rediscovering the pleasures of French cheese vocabulary!
Bella Alfonsi:
How did your career start? Did you always know that you wanted to get into the motion design industry?
Lili Boisrond:
My pursuit of motion design actually started on a miscommunication in choosing a semester class in college. Thinking I enrolled in a drawing class, I ended up in “drawing for storyboard”, which led to experimental animation and later to narrative animation. It was mesmerizing because until then I had too many passions to see a clear career road, always having to choose between visual arts, music and storytelling. The animation world and motion design showed me they can coexist in a larger, multifaceted creation. I love the idea of a “global” piece when it comes to making an animation. Goosebumps.
Shots from Architectural Digest project with IKEA
Bella Alfonsi:
The motion design industry is full of folks who have extensive schooling and some, none at all. In what ways has having a formal education in visual arts, art history, and jazz affected your career? Would you recommend higher-education to others?
Lili Boisrond:
This is a tough question for me. I very much enjoyed taking the liberal arts road for education, but I think it’s such a personal choice. I had no idea what I wanted to do and couldn’t pick between one artistic or academic area so it was an ideal mix for me. When I started working in an animation studio fresh out of college I realized I had literally no technical knowledge. No kidding, on my first day I asked a freelancer sitting next to me how to make something bigger in Photoshop...
I worked my way up with intensive ‘head banging against the wall after effects tutorial marathon nights’ and learned things quickly, but I always wondered what things could have been if I had attended a school like SVA.
Looking back now, I definitely wouldn’t change the path I took and I think there are tons of advantages to being self taught - you have to be quick on your feet and I think it makes you a creatively independent person faster. I’m also happy I get to feed my work with a broader source of education whether it be music, philosophy or literature, it makes you stand out and you can always nourish your technical abilities later on!
Bella Alfonsi:
What’s the animation scene like in Paris? Are your clients mostly French or do you find yourself working more internationally?
Lili Boisrond:
I’ve only been back in Paris for a year now, and I have to admit, the scene is not as fluid and funky as New York. For starters, the freelancing system still feels very new here and it takes way longer to establish a solid relationship of trust with studios. In the US, producers are proactive and understand that if you did a good job in another animation shop, there’s no reason you won’t do great in theirs. Well Parisian studios and agencies don’t quite work the same way… Over the course of one year I would say I worked 90% with my US contacts, and 10% were French gigs that took weeks to find and book. When you’re still on NYC rhythm, the French work system feels SLOW.
Compositing and post-fx work with Mighty Oak on their Affirm project.
Bella Alfonsi:
You’ve worked with a diverse group of impressive clients (IKEA, Lyft, New Balance, etc.)! What advice do you have for freelancers first starting out who dream of working with clients like these?
Lili Boisrond:
What worked best for me has been to constantly nourish relationships with studios. On five projects maybe only one will be creatively interesting to you, but for all the times you helped out on a project that was never-ending, all the not portfolio worthy projects, the day will come that you are their go to person of trust. And that day you will be leading the project and make the creative decisions you were only dreaming of taking!
And if you find the time, don’t underestimate the power that personal projects can have on your portfolio - studios can see how you can handle a project from head to toe and that you’re serious about your work. Make sure you sprinkle a nice explanatory case study breaking down your process on top, and voilà.
Bella Alfonsi:
You’ve worked on so many fun projects over the years. Are there any in particular that really resonate with you?
Lili Boisrond:
Yes! The last project I did this summer before starting a year of studies at Gobelins comes to mind right away. My favorite animation studio - Mighty Oak - asked me to art direct a stop motion project for L.L Bean. It’s not often as a freelancer that you get to work on a project from stage A to Z delivery day, besides personal projects. Since I never specialized technically, I’m the Swiss army knife kind of motion designer and it was just wonderful to use all my toolkit in one project… storyboarding, designing, stop motion, compositing etc. Hopefully it’s the first of many more projects like this.
New Balance - Data Driven Design project.
Bella Alfonsi:
It feels like people are freelancing more now than ever. What’s something you wish you knew before going freelance yourself?
Lili Boisrond:
I was lucky enough to have the advices of friends in the industry who were already freelancing rockstars, and I will say what they said to me - never undersell yourself, only share projects that showcase something you like doing because that’s what people will call you for, start building a strong list of animation contacts and nourish it with clever updates. In short : put yourself out there!!
Bella Alfonsi:
When you find yourself in a creative rut, how do you get out of it? What or who inspires you?
Lili Boisrond:
A few things have worked for me over the years. I’m a strong believer in talking your way out of a creative rut. Your friends and family might not be into discussing style frames or art direction, but even saying things out loud helps. The power of voicing out a problem is incredible, and the best is having a buddy to bounce ideas off of. I’ve been torturing my husband for years and it’s worked wonders!
A second way out is to stop thinking about it. You may think taking a walk or heading out to an art show will be a waste of time when you’re on a deadline, but it will most certainly make you snap out of your blockage faster than sitting at your desk pulling your hair. Who knows what you might see or hear along the way, and by giving your brain a break it will thank you creatively.
Bella Alfonsi:
What do you think the future of motion design looks like? Anything you’re excited about or things that are concerning to you?
Lili Boisrond:
I’m continuously in awe of what humans are capable of creating, the new styles that come out every year, and how we still find novel ways to tell stories to others. But with the huge acceleration in AI with tools like Dalle 2 and Midjourney, I’m concerned (yet still hopeful!) about what the future of our creative industries will look like. Will young teens still doodle on a drawing pad or dab in creative writing when the most common tool of creativity will be writing a prompt for an AI to do it? I’m hoping it will open a door to many creative minds and new ways of thinking, but it does raise a lot of questions on where we’re heading.
Bella Alfonsi:
Any final advice/takeaways?
Lili Boisrond:
No regrets! This is my #1 rule in life. I live by it, I work by it, and most importantly I eat by it.
Takeover Tuesday with Sabrina Chaney
An interview with Sabrina Chaney: Post-Production Lead at Mighty Oak in Brooklyn.
Q&A with Sabrina Chaney.
Read time: 5min
Mack Garrison:
Sabrina! Thanks so much for taking the time to participate in our Tuesday Takeover series. For those not familiar with you and your work, can you provide a little background on yourself and your creative style?
Sabrina Chaney:
Hey! I was born and raised in Houston, Texas. I went to school for Animation at the Savannah College of Art and Design. Now I work as the Post-Production Lead at Mighty Oak in Brooklyn, New York. My creative style is an amalgamation of all my interests: comics, animation, music videos, sculpture, and patterns. My main passion is stop-motion animation, so typically I like to imbue whatever I make with some kind of handmade element or texture.
Mack Garrison:
Oh man - love the word imbue! How did you initially get into the motion design industry?
Sabrina Chaney:
After I graduated from college I knew my portfolio wasn't where it needed to be. I was applying everywhere under the sun and it felt like every email was being swallowed into the void. Nothing really kicked off until I took a few School of Motion courses and re-made my portfolio and reel from scratch while living with my parents. You can see the result of that work here. Matt Vojacek from Made by Things was the first person to take a chance on me and give me an internship - working remotely long before Covid, might I add - and that started my freelancing career which I continued for three years after I moved to Brooklyn in 2017.
Shot from Sabrina Chaney’s demo reel.
Mack Garrison:
There are so many talented folks in our industry, who are some of the people you look up to?
Sabrina Chaney:
The people who inspired me the most when I was starting out are all pursuing their own big projects these days. Isaiah Saxon of Encyclopedia Pictura is directing a movie for A24. Charles Huettner, Benjy Brooke, and Sean Buckelew are adapting the Scavengers short into a TV series for HBO Max. In general, I look up to people with big imaginations who do their own thing independently and feel compelled to share their work (remember Late Night Work Club? Bring that back!). Outside of mograph, I adore the work of Meredith Gran (of Octopus Pie and Perfect Tides fame) and Jonathan Bree. They are both master storytellers in their respective fields, and I feel transported by the worlds and characters they've created.
Mack Garrison:
You work at a really cool studio called Mighty Oak who specializes in stop motion, 2D, 3D and mixed media! What's it like working there?
Sabrina Chaney:
I had already built a working relationship with Mighty Oak while I was freelancing, and they were always my favorite client to work with. I joined the team full-time in March 2020. Everyone on the team is a creative problem-solver, and we bring our unique approach and point of view to every brief. Stop-motion is our favorite medium to work with and we bring that tactile sensibility to every project, whether it's animated in-camera or animated completely digitally. As the compositor, I get to solve a new puzzle every day, which makes my work rewarding and enjoyable. I love the variety of work that we attract, and I especially love when we have the opportunity to push ourselves with new techniques we've never tried before. Like a mighty oak, we are continuing to grow every year!
Title card for the Netflix series: the Principles of Pleasure from Mighty Oak.
Mack Garrison:
What are some of your favorite projects you've had a chance to work on?
Sabrina Chaney:
During 2020 and shortly after I was brought on staff, we created animated sequences for Mary J Blige's My Life which is now streaming on Amazon. That project holds a special place in my heart because whether the world was falling apart or I had something going on in my personal life, I always had something beautiful to look forward to at work. It was also the longest-running project we had worked on as a team, so it felt good to practice consistency and surpass our benchmarks together as the months went by. We developed a painterly frame-by-frame 2D workflow using Procreate and After Effects, inspired by the work of our creative director Michaela Olsen. I can look back on what we made and feel proud of what we accomplished. I was also invited to the film premiere in Lincoln Center along with the rest of our team- and Mary J Blige herself was at the afterparty! We made direct eye contact! I'll never forget it.
Similarly, in 2021, we created animated sequences for the Netflix series Principles of Pleasure. Each episode has a different art direction depending on the given topic, and we used a mix of stop-motion animation with props, pixelation with human actors, collage, frame-by-frame 2D animation, and motion graphics to illustrate topics relating to sexual education and female pleasure. We used a lot of the lessons we learned during 2020 and applied it to the production of PoP. We harnessed the momentum of the previous year to create something fresh and different. Those projects combined offered us a lot of fun and challenging work during the pandemic, which is something I'm still grateful for.
Mack Garrison:
Looking at your reel, you've really done a phenomenal job with your compositing skills! Could you talk a bit about your approach in making a shot feel perfect?
Sabrina Chaney:
Consistency is key. It's not about whether a shot is perfect, it's about whether the shot feels believable. Compositing is a lot like being an illusionist who can do card tricks: of course we may know what lies up our sleeve, but all the audience sees is magic! What I love most about working in After Effects is that there are a thousand ways to achieve a desired result, so there is no "wrong" or "right" approach. It all boils down to the needs of each shot and making sure the hero product or character can shine without any distractions.
A few illustrations from Sabrina Chaney.
Mack Garrison:
What are some things everyone should think about when they're compositing animations?
Sabrina Chaney:
Compositing encompasses a lot of different techniques, including green-screening, rotoscoping/masking, special effects, motion graphics, color correction, and rendering. Each of those skills could be its own visual effects discipline with its own specialized software. I tend to keep everything as simplified as possible to avoid getting overwhelmed, and I find this practice also makes it easier if I need to pass off a shot to somebody else. By simplified I mean things like keeping my project folders organized, using only the most necessary layers in my timeline, and frequently reducing my project to trim down on unnecessary files inside of my .aep. I find that these small acts of tidying up help me stay focused on the compositing work that really matters instead of getting caught up in the weeds, overcomplicating things, and then causing trouble for myself later in a project when I can't make heads or tails of my project file.
Mack Garrison:
Your work and Might Oak's has a very hand-crafted feel. I'm curious what your thoughts are around the development of A.I. Are you worried about what it could do to the industry? And how do you think it will affect the stop motion space?
Sabrina Chaney:
Honestly, I'm very ambivalent and non-threatened by A.I. People have already been creating 3D animation that looks like claymation for years, and projects like The Lego Movie directly reference stop-motion animation techniques. Technically stop-motion has already been made obsolete. People simply love it too much to let it die! If A.I does have a place in the process of creating stop-motion animation, then it'll probably occupy a space much like rapid prototyping technology, which allowed Laika to make characters more expressive using 3D animated faces in Coraline and is now an industry standard practice.
Mack Garrison:
Any advice you'd give to the next generation of creatives?
Sabrina Chaney:
I grew up Extremely Online from middle school through college, migrating from deviantART to Tumblr to Twitter and Instagram in an effort to post and share my work. I never had much of an audience, and I found it more draining than energizing. At the end of the day, I'm not sure how much good it did when it came to actually getting work. By far the best networking connections I've made were from reaching out to people directly via email, using the Internet to do my own industry research, and meeting people face to face at in-person events. Your portfolio speaks for itself. If you feel pressured by social media, I recommend deleting your apps for a temporary period and dedicating the time towards things that inspire you without any plans to share what you've done. Maintaining some semblance of privacy can be intensely freeing, because you're allowed to make mistakes, learn, and experiment without subscribing to trends or comparing yourself to others.
Mack Garrison:
Anything else you'd like to add?
Sabrina Chaney:
I want to place a special shoutout to Panimation NYC! Panimation meetups were how I met many of my current friends and peers right after I moved to New York City when I didn't know a soul. Coming out of the pandemic, I learned how easy it can be to become isolated. It helps to get involved with a community of like-minded people who support each other.
Takeover Tuesday with dina Amin
Q&A with dina Amin, a Stop Motion Artist and Maker from Cairo, Egypt.
Q&A with dina Amin
Read time: 5min
Adult Swim Stop Motion ID | Client: Adult Swim, Animation: dina Amin
Madison Caprara:
Hey, dina! How’re you doing? Could you give us a little insight into you and your work?
dina Amin:
I am doing great thanks!
My name is dina Amin, I am a Stop Motion Artist and Maker from Cairo, Egypt.
Madison Caprara:
Now, I see that your BA is actually in industrial design, what prompted you to pivot away from that?
dina Amin:
It was a very unintended shift. After studying industrial design in Malaysia and coming back to Egypt, it was difficult to find opportunities. For a few years, I took on many different jobs, after a while, however, I began to feel lost. I loved industrial design, but hated a big part of the industry; most of the things we design end up being thrown away. So one day I decided to do the thing I loved the most.
There were many worries: “Is it a ‘real’ job?” “Where would it lead professionally?” “Will I be able to make money from it?” At the time, I didn’t have the answers, but I convinced myself that my true calling was to take products apart. I started doing so every weekend, until one day I decided to animate these parts using something I had learned about: stop motion. I was immediately hooked. For a year and a half, I would take apart a broken product and animate it coming together in new ways. This is how I taught myself animation.
Madison Caprara:
Wow, that takes an insane amount of self-discipline.
So what exactly is stop motion? How does it differ from other forms of animation?
dina Amin:
Stop motion is a form of handmade animation. Every component is real and is physically moved by the animator. You take a series of photos of an object and in each photo, you move the object slightly. When all these photos are played back-to-back, it appears as if the object is moving on its own.
What makes stop motion very different from other types of animation, is that it is a merging of two practices: animation and photography.
Madison Caprara:
What initially drew you to stop motion as opposed to other animating techniques?
dina Amin:
Stop motion is magical. I basically am constructing an illusion. We trick you into seeing something that isn’t real but looks as if it is. With stop motion, I can make any wild imagination into a fascinating reality.
Madison Caprara:
Do you see any intersection between the two: industrial design and stop motion?
dina Amin:
YES! I have learned that many industrial designers actually make the switch to stop motion. A large part of stop motion involves fabrication—whether it’s making the sets or fabricating the inner skeletons of a puppet. There is a lot of product design and engineering knowledge utilized. Knowing a lot about different materials is helpful as well. We are constantly problem-solving.
Madison Caprara:
And what steps did you take in pursuing it professionally? You mentioned that initially, you were self-taught.
dina Amin:
I am self-taught and mainly learned with consistent practice. Eventually, I started learning more skills like animation principles, cinematography, how to use lighting, video editing, and fabrication. Stop motion really is under the umbrella of many different fields, but with time and discipline, anyone can teach themselves.
Madison Caprara:
Do you have any resource or tutorial recommendations for those who may be interested in learning?
dina Amin:
Of course:
The Animator’s Survival Kit, by Richard Williams
My Skillshare course, Stop Motion for Beginners
My free printable and tutorial on how to make a certain character using stop motion
Kevin Parry’s intermediate course on stop motion
Edu Puertas’ Youtube
Guldies’ Patreon
My Patreon
AdeenaGrub’s Patreon
Terry Ibele’s, Animation Industry Podcast.
Madison Caprara:
Now having experienced both sides of the coin—formal education and self-teaching—where do you stand on the debate for/against pursuing a college degree? Is it essential for success in your opinion?
dina Amin:
There isn’t one option that’s better than the other. Even if you do pursue a degree, you’ll still be teaching yourself a lot of the skills. There is a lot of information out there, you can’t expect to get it from a single source or person. I see the term “self-teaching” as you WANTING to teach yourself, but not necessarily the same as you being your sole teacher. There is a difference.
When you are “self-taught” you are still learning from others who have put the information out there. Whether they know it or not, they were your teachers. So, the drive has to be there, even in college. Is a college degree essential to success? Absolutely not. It’s the desire-to-learn attitude that is essential. But one thing that college makes easier, if the student makes use of it, is the early network building and ease of establishing connections.
Madison Caprara:
Couldn’t agree with you more on that one.
Moulid Doll | Client: Zest, Animation: dina Amin
Madison Caprara:
Speaking on establishing connections, how did you go about cultivating and creating a community in an industry that was completely new to you?
dina Amin:
Completely new and almost nonexistent in Egypt! The short answer is...the internet. I met a lot of interesting people through my Instagram and made sure to spread my work on online blogs and editorials. Consequently, I started getting opportunities to speak at conferences and began meeting up with so many incredible creatives. My community kept growing and growing from there!
Madison Caprara:
On the flip side, what about creating client relationships?
dina Amin:
Very important! Client relations are the key to sustaining your work as a freelancer, or even if you are running your own studio. I prefer to work with clients I relate to. The work is “easy” and more fun if I love what they do or what they are creating. Everyone is working towards the same goal, that goal being to make the best deliverable for their product/service rather than “finishing another job.” Two completely different mentalities. These types of clients are easy to grow a relationship with, everyone is happy with the process and outcome, and they usually remember you for their next project.
Madison Caprara:
For curiosity’s sake, who was your first client or project?
dina Amin:
My first project was for BBC Arabic. They had interviewed me for a tv report and thought that I could make an intro for the show being that I knew both Arabic and English!
Madison Caprara:
Do you have a favorite stop motion work or artist?
dina Amin:
There are too many good ones, Guldies is my favorite, he has the best timing in his animations. The movements are so smooth and I like his imagination.
Madison Caprara:
Well, it’s been really great speaking with you, dina! I’ll admit, I didn’t know much about the stop motion side before this conversation.
Before we wrap it up, is there anything would like to end on?
dina Amin:
I’d advise anyone who would like to start learning stop motion to just go for it! Just do it. Don’t wait for the “right” tools or the “right” course. Take out your phone, download any stop motion app, and start moving things.