Freelancing 101 with Ryan Summers
Relationship building, mental health, and the art of negotiating; just three of the many topics we discussed with Ryan Summers. Ryan has worked with the likes of Guillermo Del Toro and JJ Abrams and is currently a Creative Director at School of Motion.
Q&A with Ryan Summers
Read time: 20 min
Ryan Summers:
It's hard.
It was less hard for me this time because when I was at BK Kitchen, the last year I was working by myself in two separate rooms. I had two big projects I bounced back and forth from. But when I went from working at Royale to freelancing from home for Odd Fellows, it drove me nuts. The culture was so awesome at Royale. We were playing music all the time. We were playing video games and helping each other with projects. Then all of a sudden, it was just silence. It didn’t take very long for me to be like, this is crazy. This is not normal.
Mack Garrison:
I'm trying to keep the same regimen that I had at the office. Waking up, working out, getting my coffee. Trying to keep some daily structure to it. It's such a slippery slope. Even this morning I woke up, I was like, well I'm working from home, I don't have to work out. I could just sleep a little bit longer. And that's when you start getting dangerous, man.
Ryan Summers:
You need a space that's just for work if you can. Even if it's just a desk to separate work mode. And then, you need a routine. Routine is the biggest thing.
Mack Garrison:
No, that's a really good point.
Thinking about the dash bash; about the demographics that are going to be there. I think there are a lot of people that are either just getting into freelance, rising in the freelance game, or on the precipice of starting their studio. What are some things that folks should be thinking about when they're going off on their own? I’m thinking about how it can catch you off guard when you find yourself in this lonely situation that you hadn't been in before. What are some struggles you think people should be preparing for as they go into the freelance game?
Ryan Summers:
I've been in that position, granted, not in this kind of specifically-geared environment. But the first thing is always runaway and capital. If you have to worry about having enough money in two weeks, you're not going to be your best artist or your best business person going forward. So as much as possible, I try and have that runaway figured out so that there's a safety net. But as much as the financial stuff is important, I think the psychological enemies are difficult no matter what. There are so many factors of, “I've got to learn stuff, I've got to network, I've got to decide if I want to just be a great animator or move into art directing.”
But then when you compile that with freelance or trying to get into a place and then chasing bookings and payment, that's going to be more complicated right now. I think that the best thing I can tell people is to try to create an ad hoc mastermind group for themselves. I know there are lots of buzzwords going around, but if there's a way to try to create some sense of community, even while you're working at home; a shared group of people like you would have in an office where you build relationships...I hate the word networking, but building relationships in this day and age is so important. So that every morning you have somebody to spot check and be like, "Dude, are you a red light right now, or are you a green light? Are you feeling good? Awful?"
Ryan Summers:
What happens is, you'll talk to people online and you lose tone. People right now want to put a good spin on everything and be positive. But if you start seeing people every day or every two days, just visually looking at each other, you know when someone says something but there's something else behind what they’re saying. It's really important to start building those relationships now as freelancers.
You might be stressed out and not even realize it, but if you have somebody else who can be like, "dude, something's up. What's going on?" They can kind of push. Whereas, when you're just sitting at home in your room trying to go down and trying to get work done, it's easy to push way too fast, way too far.
Mack Garrison:
That's a really good point. I remember before starting dash, I worked for an agency for about four and a half years here in North Carolina. I don't think you realize how isolated you become. It's really interesting talking about finding that group of people and just having someone to check in on you to make sure that you're doing okay. That you're not pulling your hair out every day, because you start to lose track of time, and things blend. You're working all the time because the work is right there at home. It's a slippery slope that can get dangerous quickly if you're not cognizant of that.
I also remember some of the pains that go with freelance. What you alluded to earlier was chasing money and trying to get paid. I don't know why this industry is so challenging with that, it's still an issue. Part of it is also, as people get older, we're more cognizant of that. Making sure I don’t forget where I was as a freelancer and how frustrating it was to get paid, so not doing the same thing that other folks did to me.
Mack Garrison:
As far as just tips and tricks, what’s something that may be useful, whether it is for a studio or a freelancer when it comes to getting paid? If the client's not paying you, do you have a protocol?
Ryan Summers:
I end up using this word too much because it means different things for different scenarios. But, it's going back to that relationship. I do open office hours where people can come in to talk. A lot of times we just talk about demo reels or freelance life. I'm always surprised by how many people don’t establish relationships. For example, your first interaction with a client. When you’d walk up to someone - before COVID - you'd shake their hand. That first meeting sets the tone for the relationship going forward. I'm shocked by how many people don't have contracts or deal memos with a list of working requirements. They’ll establish the relationship almost as if they're doing a favor for a buddy versus entering into a work agreement.
So, when you start a relationship - let's say somebody wants to work at dash - you’d say, "Hey, dash wants to bring you in for freelance." The person should immediately reply with, "well, here's my deal memo. My understanding is that you're booking me for two weeks with the option of holding me for two more weeks. This is my daily rate. This is my after-hours overtime rate," with the definition of what is considered overtime. If you don't have your full understanding and expectations set up at the beginning, it's really hard to circle back and say “okay, will you promise me you are going to do this?” I'm shocked by how many people fumble the ball for themselves. Whether they're new to it, they're naive, they're intimidated, or it's a big client that they don't want to start on a bad relationship with. Treat your first interaction with anyone you may be working for or working with as a business relationship. Then, everything else is easier.
Style frame from “GOOGLE: Meet Data.” Animated by Ryan Summers.
Mack Garrison:
So, I think back to when we started dash as partners, Cory and I. We were best friends going into it. We had known each other for four and a half years and were so excited. We still went to a lawyer and got an operational agreement done. Everything was great then, but introducing a business when you're going off together in a partnership can have so many wildcards. Luckily we haven't had anything happen, but having that contract upfront is preparing you should things go south. Of course, the expectation is that it won't, but it gives you something to lean on.
Another thing, I remember being shocked that contracts were negotiable. One time our lawyer was like, "Hey, you could push back on this." And I was like, "really? I just assumed that it was boilerplate, when someone sends you the contract it is what it is."
Ryan Summers:
Absolutely. I'm so glad you say that coming from the studio-side because I think that's rare to hear. I tell people all the time, whether you're negotiating for freelance or negotiating for a staff position, 1.) Everything's negotiable, and 2.) There are a lot of things to consider; you have so many more arrows in your quiver than you realize. It's not just your day rate or your yearly salary. There are other things and tools you have at your advantage so that you're not being leveraged up. Right off the bat, in your contract, you can state that if this project doesn't work out, I would love it if you would try to book me on another job, but if you can’t find anything, release me with my kill fee. Or, it's just you let go of me immediately, so I could go find another booking.
I find so few people run into those situations, I know people who don't use the hold system. You may not get as many offers for bookings, but I know talented freelance illustrators and motion designers that would say, “book me or not, I don't want to play the hold game.” On the flip side, I know others that are like, “man, I've got three holds and none of them booked and now I'm looking at nothing on Monday. I'm going to have to eat this week. Trying to find more work.”
Mack Garrison:
That's a really good comment that you brought there. One of the things that I’d recognized when we initially started hiring freelancers outside of our internal staff, particularly down here in the South, people were just wanting to get hired or not. There wasn't a hold system. We only encountered that when we started getting involved with New York, LA, Chicago. Do you feel it’s more common in smaller or bigger markets?
Ryan Summers:
There are positives and negatives to the hold system. The big thing you have to remember as a freelancer is that you are entering into partnerships with companies that need temporary work. As much as everyone's pushing the freelance manifesto, that it is the one true way to work. It gives you so much more leverage being in temporary work-for-hire situations. When that goes away, they're never indebted to you. In my experiences, the hold system is different if you're talking about the three markets; the Midwest - Chicago for example - New York, and LA. They all have slightly different variations of the system. However, every shop seems to lightly honor it, which is again, completely informal, non-legally binding, and arbitrary.
It’s really confusing and, unfortunately, aimed more towards the person doing the hiring versus the hiree. But as I said, you don't have to follow that. If a company needs style frames done and you're an amazing artist or a great illustrator, they can book you. And maybe they only book you for two days to kind of "hold you." But they have the money to do that. They have the means. It's neat that you said you’ve never encountered it until you started pulling people.
“motionographer awards and ceremonies are not just about highlighting who is the best. they’re to show people that our work exists beyond being used as marketing material for a client.”
Mack Garrison:
Exactly. It's like it's the disparity, and the system itself highlights how broken it is. When there's no consistency and no one's operating in the same sort of game or playing field, it sheds light on the fact that it's not great. The thing that I don't like about it, which you also alluded to, is that it benefits the studio.
That's terrible, there should be more repercussions for a studio if they’re just willy-nilly throwing around someone else's schedule like that. Which is one of the reasons when we first started that we didn't operate on holds a lot. We’d just approach people when we were ready to book. Now, we come into problems with that too. If you're reaching out to someone to book them a week and a half out from when they're supposed to start, a lot of top talent will already be booked up. But the good news is, at least we started to hopefully build a reputation that when we do reach out, we’re serious about the work, it wasn't something frivolous. I think it'd be better if the whole industry started operating like that.
Style frame from “Detroiters - Main Titles.” Animated by Ryan Summers.
Ryan Summers:
As I said, these are all relationships, they need to be built around trust. As long as someone has a relationship with you and they trust you, you can accept the hold system for what it might be. But when you start dealing with a situation where a studio starts spam holding multiple people for a job that may not come because they're pitching, then there's this epidemic of getting held and released with no penalty. For the freelancers, however, there are.
The leverage is in the artist's hands. They just don't realize it. It doesn't take freelancers that much to get a hold of the client they may be working with. And we're all working with the same software, we're all working with the same hardware. If you're working in CG, you're probably putting your stuff up on the same rendering service. Now there's no real magic into how this stuff gets done anymore, other than the people. So, it's a dangerous time for studios that abuse a hold system or believe freelancers are just interchangeable cogs in the machine because the shops are going to be perceived that way pretty soon once it’s realized that the people drive it all.
Mack Garrison:
That’s a great point. And it's something that we've been having internal conversations about as well. If you look at the industry as the whole, it's pinching, right? On the top end, you have the clients that would typically go to agencies for full turnkey creative help; website, branding, motion, whatever. But now those in-house teams are getting better. They're starting to hire motion designers, ultimately they just don't need as much work. What that means is that instead of going to the agency for everything, they're going to go directly to the studio for the motion work. All of a sudden, you find studios like Dash that are now competing with smaller agencies for the same type of work.
But then as you alluded to on the bottom end, freelancers are also getting better. So now, some of the bottom projects that we still take on are being taken by freelancers. So, you're getting this tension in the industry. And to your point, I think it's okay NOW because there's plenty of work going around, but it makes you wonder what the future of this industry is going to look like. Is it the smaller studio shops and freelancers that are going to flourish? Is there a world where the bigger agencies still exist? I don't know. What are your thoughts when you think about the future of motion design?
Ryan Summers:
I'm super excited about it. I know that's a weird thing to say right now, but I think there's one additional factor to what we're talking about. A traditional, large motion design shop, especially the agencies, is not only getting attacks from the top and the bottom, but they're also getting stretched out in the middle. Because as an agency, they're full service; they do everything short of ad buying, which is kind of like the mystery box of our world. But as you said, a studio has a team full of people so that they don't have to go out to a large motion shop. They don't trust the large agencies as much as they used to, but the agencies themselves are getting gutted out from the inside. We know where peoples’ eyeballs are and we know how to attract their eyeballs in terms of commercials or whatever you may be doing. However, they don't understand social media. The landscape is changing so fast. Agencies don’t understand advertising.
Ryan Summers:
Because of the eyeball shift to streaming and social media, every six months there's a new service. TikTok is it now, it used to be YouTube. Agencies can't see bumpers, so they're losing their authority. They're getting their lunch handed to them on what used to be an easy way to make money because they don't know where to go to even advertise.
It's a really scary time for them, but it's a huge opportunity for us because we speak that language. There are a lot more people working in motion design that are closer to the target audiences and know what to make for them. So, there's an incredible opportunity to create trust now from the people making it to the people who need it. At the same time, the amount - I don't call them screens anymore - but the number of canvases available to us, is big and only getting bigger. It's going to skyrocket in the next four to five years. Places that our work is going to live and need our kind of agency, our understanding is going to just skyrocket. So I think it's an awesome, but difficult, time while we're trying to figure it out. The opportunities are huge.
“this is the one creative arts industry that I can think of where we put so much time into the work, but the amount of time that the work exists is negligible.”
Mack Garrison:
You bring a really good point on the medium and how motion design lives in the world. I think for a while it's been relatively consistent on what the programs you need to know are to generate the content. Whether it's Maya, Cinema 4D, After Effects, whatever. But we're on the precipice of all this new technology. There’s this perpetual learning that you need to do. A lot of people have preached about being good at one specific thing while the jack of all trades-type person, the generalist, is kind of dying. But I see that coming back because of all the new technology that's coming out. I think the success of a future motion designer is someone that is flexible and can be an avid, nimble learner when trying to adapt to these new things.
“there are just enough people now who've been in our industry that are either desperate for a community or they’re looking for the next step. people want to see their work recognized.”
Ryan Summers:
I agree. Motion design used to mean it was the umbrella for anything that moved, right? So it meant photography, it meant still frame, it meant videography. It meant knowing typography. It meant knowing hand skills, collage, 2D animation, 3D animation. And no one ever expected anyone to know all of those things. That's why teams were so interesting, and that's why each studio had a specific signature. You would go to Digital Kitchen because they had this very cinematographic style, but it wasn't very graphics-oriented, it was editorial. Or you’d go to Imaginary Forces for another look. Then there might be two or three studios that did high-end 3D, but they wouldn't be the people you'd go to for 2D animation. Now, everything has solidified around, “it's going to be done in After Effects, it's going to be done in Cinema 4D if it's character animation, there are two styles of character animation if it's CG, it's going to look like it came out of Red Ship.”
Having constricted to a really specific definition of animation, to now exploding back into what it used to be; where motion design is the overarching umbrella, where you can do anything to make anything move. The tools that were inaccessible in the 90s and the early 2000s now everyone has access to. Not just software, but access to cameras in a way we never had access to before. You can work with editors in a way you never used to be able to before. That's why I always talk about voice and vision being as important as your established relationships and the hardware or software that you use. That being said, I do think there's going to be a demand for people who have a specific way of seeing things or a specific way of making things look.
Mack Garrison:
That's a really good point. I've even been guilty of it myself. You get that project request that comes in and it's a certain type of client. For us, we deal with a lot of IT stuff. So it's like, okay, here are some examples of other videos that have been made, that probably fall into exactly what this should be. Right? And it's a safe play. I think what ends up happening is a cycle effect where someone comes up with a style. That style gets recycled around by everyone in the industry. People like it, so we keep pushing it forward. It's safe.
What ends up happening is when we're looking for inspiration, we tend to look only at what other videos are being made. What the top people are making right now. So limiting, right? So, there's not that much diversity in the variety of work that’s being made. Whereas I felt like to your point in the 90s when people were still experimenting, there wasn't a right way because there was so much still left to figure out. Work was constantly being evolved. That's what I am excited about with this technology growth. Hopefully, it will break us away from this reuse cycle.
Style frame from “Pokemon — BREAKTHROUGH.” Animated by Ryan Summers.
Mack Garrison:
What advice would you give for someone trying to push away from having a set style? What are some things folks should be doing to try to push that innovation?
Ryan Summers:
I think the bottom line is just allowing yourself to do it. Maybe this is me being too personal, but actively allowing yourself to realize that in this career, it's okay to be a capital-A artist. I don't think there are a lot of people who feel like they've been permitted to say that. Some people are like, "Oh, I work in cinema," or, "I'm an after effects animator." But I don't think most spend their days thinking about, "Oh, I want to say this about the world," or "I'm interested in this look that I found from this photographer from the 60s, how can I take that and work with that methodology in Redshift, or 3D?"
For example, most people in 3D right now over-light everything. It's the same thing that used to happen in early CD animation for feature films where people were like, “I have to build all this stuff, then I have to texture everything, and then I have to light it so that when I light it I need to show everything that I made, because otherwise, why would I ever have made all that stuff?” And it wasn't until someone like Roger Deacon came into feature animation and asked why everything is over-lighted? If you're doing this in a feature film, you would only put the light where you want people to look. You had only used lighting to make people feel a certain way. All of a sudden with "How To Train Your Dragon" and "Wally" and the many films after that, by bringing in real-world cinematographers, people started using the tools in a way that allowed them to portray the emotions that they wanted to express.
Ryan Summers:
That's just one example, but it was because people who were looking for software-based solutions finally allowed the art to creep back in. That's the first step to all of it, right? You talked about the echo chamber, and the inspiration paralysis right now. There's so much going on and we're all responding to the same thing. For example, I’ll ask another designer who they like, and if somebody says, "Oh man, I love Ash Thorp." I'm like, "Okay, cool. Do you know why Ash Thorp is Ash Thorp? Go back and look at the three people he was inspired by and find out who those people were working with."
Ash Thorp loves Katsuhiro Otomo, the guy who created Akira. So go find other people that inspired Otomo. He loved Stanley Kubrick. Find out who Stanley Kubrick's cinematographer was and find out who those people started with and look back. Being able to present full references that no one else has, that's liberating. That's exciting. And it gives you an advantage.
Mack Garrison:
You're touching on something that has become a bit lost; the whole research side of things. It's a constant balance between art and design. We design something for someone for a purpose...to get them to like it. At the same time, the art is an evolution of what we would like. It has been a mix of different styles, with different periods over the years. I think, as opposed to some traditional mediums where people would study various periods and have that art history knowledge to build off of, a lot of what we do is being condensed to a week, a few days, or a 24-hour period to come up with an idea for a piece.
Rather than looking back in a nontraditional way of research for what could be done or looking back at periods that can echo a client’s sentiment for something, we go to Vimeo and we look at what's on there. One of the things that we should advocate for now is more education in some of the art periods themselves. Look back in history to what you're talking about. Who are other people inspired by, what was their history, what were they inspired by about that history?
Ryan Summers:
And that's why I think, allowing yourself to say, “I'm an artist,” means that even if you did...let's say Dash gets some call tomorrow from Marvel for their next movie, like "Black Panther 2."
Mack Garrison:
Yeah, sign me up.
Ryan Summers:
Sure. Right? But the problem is you have to have the pitch in by Friday. Or, let's say Monday because we have a weekend. If you aren't thinking like an artist and you don't have interests outside of motion design, the only thing you can do in that amount of time is two things. Either A, "What do I know that the software can give me right now and solve for that?" Or B, "What do I know everybody else is doing that I know somebody else has made so I can figure out how to do it? And let's do a variant of that.”
Ryan Summers:
But if you’re thinking as an artist, the time that you've spent to create a pitch, the time needed to show what you're inspired by, isn't based on the time you're given when initially assigned the project. It's based on how long you’ve spent thinking for the last seven years about things that interest you; things that you love, things that you don't know anything about but catch your eye. So if you think as an artist, you're always thinking about these things. Even if you are only given a two-day turnaround, the artist who was like, "You know what, I love macro photography, but I also love textiles and fashion. And you know what else? There's something interesting about AR in terms of how people interact with technology."
So, all of a sudden when a client says, "We need a teacher that looks like it's influenced by alien technology and we need it in two days," you have a wealth of ideas to pull from. Allow yourself to be an artist. All commercial artists still have personal projects that they want to do, and that's what feeds into the work they do when hired by others. Then, the for-hire work hopefully gives them enough money and time to be able to go and reinvest that back into a personal project. We've been so detached from that. People are being taught that deeming yourself an artist or saying that you have personal projects, is like a dirty word. You're being selfish or you're taking money away from your company and I believe that couldn't be further from the truth.
“the bottom line is just allowing yourself to do it...actively allowing yourself to realize that in this career, it's okay to be a capital-A artist.”
Mack Garrison:
Oh, I love it. That's a great description. I think we've lost a little bit of that art form. Or it's been commercialized to the point where you're just doing internal art projects that look good for the brand. So you're starting to cater your art to the masses as opposed to just experimenting and trying new things. All the while building that library of knowledge in the back of your head.
To change the subject, one of the things we talked about in the very beginning was moving into freelance, the importance of community, and finding a group of people. With you doing School of Motion, I know you will echo the sentiment on how great and connected our industry is. We're both fortunate to have found ourselves in an industry that's so welcoming and helpful. Do you think that's one of the reasons why festivals have started?
Ryan Summers:
I think it's a direct reaction to all the stuff we've talked about. This has been a nascent industry that is finally starting to grow up. I asked at Camp MoGraph, "Who feels like an impostor?" Everyone raised their hand and I said, "That's cool. That's a good thing because none of us have made it through an entire career arc yet. We're all imposters. We're all trying to figure it out." There are just enough people now who've been in our industry that are either desperate for a community or they’re looking for the next step. People want to see their work recognized, right?
This is the one creative arts industry that I can think of where we put so much time into the work, but the amount of time that the work exists is negligible. We make stuff that is so difficult to make in such a short amount of time, in really inventive ways, yet we throw the pipeline away and start all over again on the next one. It's sad to think about. And every other creative arts industry recognizes the work being done in such a special way.
Ryan Summers:
Motionographer awards and ceremonies, for me, are not just about highlighting who is the best. They’re to show people that our work exists beyond being used as marketing material for a client. The systemic nature of our work causes a lot of the awful psychological problems we've started to see. People are burnt out, scared. People don't know what to do next. They’re leaving the industry because they don't feel fulfilled. I think having award shows and the awards themselves aren't that important, but the byproduct of them is. Even more important is the festivals, where people are getting together and we're not talking about software or how to make the next hot look. We're talking about what it's like to be in an industry working together as artists. That's what's awesome.
Mack Garrison:
You hit it on the head there. When we had the idea of doing the dash bash, a lot of that originated from those early conferences we went to and how enjoyable it was to meet people in the industry that are exactly like you. Blend did their first conference about a month after we started Dash. When we went, there were all these superstars that we looked up to. For us, man, these were our heroes, these were the people we wanted to be like. All of a sudden we got to recognize that they're just people like ourselves. You can go up and have these great conversations.
That's the biggest thing that I tell people. When they go to these conferences, whether it's the Dash Bash or anything else, don't go in there and just be handing out business cards. Get to know people, become their friends. Ultimately, people want to work with who they like, right? So if you have these great friendships, then naturally the work is going to come from them. Take the time to just hang out and connect in what can sometimes be a very solitary industry.
Ryan Summers:
I always say I hate the phrase networking because I don't think it’s accurate. When you go to those things, you're making friends; you're finding community. Like-minded people. Maybe you're looking for a mentor? And that's what I love about Dash. It reminds me of when I hear stories from the people who went to the first couple of Comic-Cons for the comic book industry when it was just in a basement of a hotel somewhere. It was so cool to sit and just talk to other people who settled in at a drawing table. Right? Just slaving away at comic book pages.
Mack Garrison:
We're all just in it together. Trying to figure it out. I love it. That's a really good point to end on. Let me ask you this. Have you given any more thought to the workshop itself? Anything you want to tease the public with?
Ryan Summers:
Absolutely. I get asked all the time by people about what their next steps should be, and a lot of times people think they want to be an art director, or they ask how to become a creative director. A lot of times it's surprising what that job entails. It can be very divorced from all the work you've done up until the point you asked that question. Just because you're an amazing animator, it seems like people get pushed into the direction of an art director. But you don't end up animating all that much. I hope to be able to create some type of environment where people can start to understand what it means to be an art or creative director; an interactive slice-of-life insight. So that's my tea.
Style frame from “Jump the Line - Starbucks.” Animated by Ryan Summers.
Mack Garrison:
Awesome, man. I'm excited about it. I'm going to be in attendance with my notepad out taking notes.
Ryan Summers:
Awesome. It's very cool. Very cool.
Mack Garrison:
Thank you so much for taking the time. I know with everything going on, everyone working from home, I appreciate it. This has just been a blast, just catching up a little. We’ve got to do this more often.
“...there's no real magic into how this stuff gets done anymore, other than the people.”
Ryan Summers:
Definitely, man. Thanks so much for reaching out. And I'm super excited. All this stuff will get itself figured out by September, for sure. I think it's going to get a little worse than it is right now, and it's going to be a little weird because we're not used to it. But if everybody's taking it as seriously as it seems like it is, I think we'll be okay.
Mack Garrison:
I know man. I feel the same way. Be smart right now so it's not a problem later on.
Ryan Summers:
Will do. I appreciate it. Thanks for calling.
Mack Garrison:
Yeah, absolutely, Ryan. Talk soon, man. Stay safe. Don't touch anything.
Ryan Summers:
Yeah. You too. Take it easy. Bye.
Takeover Tuesday with Angelica Baini
Q&A with Angelica Baini, a Multidisciplinary Designer and Art Director working in Los Angeles.
Q&A with Angelica Baini.
Read time: 10min
Madison Caprara:
Hey, Angelica! Can you give us a little introduction to who you are and what work you do?
Angelica Baini:
I am a Designer, Motion Designer, and Art Director, currently living in Los Angeles. I moved here in 2017 from the 305 - Miami. When I was in Miami, I was working at Univision for their explainer department at Fusion.tv. I started as an intern, eventually moving my way up to overseeing many of the works that came from there. Then, I got an opportunity to work at BuzzFeed LA, after which I went to work in social media advertisement, but finally decided it was time for me to go freelance.
Madison Caprara:
Miami! Tell us about your upbringing. When did you start gravitating to the art and design industry?
Angelica Baini:
Originally, I was born in a small town in Italy and came to Miami when I was four years old. My mom is Nicaraguan, so there are many influences in my personal art that stem from both cultures: Classical and Contemporary, Magical Surrealism, and then of course Art Deco which is huge in Miami. I think I was drawn to art because I was a lonely child. I was always occupying my mind with drawing and creating.
Growing up in Miami, I got into design after being exposed to the graffiti that I would see on highways and overpasses. When I was about 12 years old, I would try to replicate those letterforms and make custom drawings for my friends' binders in school. That eventually led me to the art of Graphic Design. There’s a book called Fadings: Graffiti to Design, Illustration, and More. It really changed my life. I went to New World School of the Arts for Graphic Design but ended up double majoring in Motion Design after discovering Vimeo and Art of the Title.
Madison Caprara:
Now, looking at your personal style, it seems that you lean into 3D typography work. What attracted you to it?
Angelica Baini:
When I work with typography, I see a whole story developing in my head revolving around type. I think about mood, time period, and feeling. In terms of pushing my typography in a 3D direction, I have always loved experimenting and have been using Cinema 4D for quite some time. It just felt natural to create these stories in a new medium. Recently, I’ve been messing around with the Oculus Rift so pretty soon maybe you all will see me push towards a virtual reality direction….that’s if I stop playing a million rounds of Beat Saber, of course.
Madison Caprara:
I have to ask, do you hate Helvetica?
Angelica Baini:
I actually quite enjoy the font, I think I lean more towards Neue Helvetica Pro 93 Extended Black. It’s bold and I like it! The font I hate the most is Myriad Pro, when it just shows up on my screen screaming that a font is missing, it feels like it’s mocking me.
Madison Caprara:
Century Gothic or Verdana are my go-to’s. I’m not sure what that says about me.
Is there anything in particular that stands out as instrumental to your education and growth as a type designer? Maybe a person, course, or another resource?
Angelica Baini:
As a Type Designer, I was mostly self-taught when creating fonts. I picked up this book called Designing Type which had very good fundamentals on what to do and what not to do for type. From there I started learning Glyphs App which had a lot of great tutorials on the site. It led me to create my first font, MARINA.
Madison Caprara:
It’s still really hard for me to wrap my head around the fact that people such as yourself create completely new typefaces.
Let’s pivot over into your art direction! What has been one of the most challenging things you’ve experienced as an Art Director?
Angelica Baini:
I have always valued quality over quantity, but with social media, quantity often is the priority. It doesn’t leave a lot of space for experimentation or solving things in effective, beautiful ways. Also, I think art direction has a different meaning to different people. Some people view it as pitching and copywriting, but for me, it’s all about concepting visually. That’s where I prefer to put my effort!
Madison Caprara:
Speaking on visual conception, tell us a bit about your creative process. How long does it usually take to create and execute once you have an idea?
Angelica Baini:
In my personal work, once I have an idea I love gathering a lot of reference images. I go all out with the Pinterest boards! If I am building a simple 3D scene it can take a couple of days, but if I decide to make a full animation, it can take a week or longer because of rendering, etc. Octane is a huge helper. For making custom fonts, the longest I’ve taken is six months. That might sound long, but large font families can take years! I get obsessive with the kerning, spacing, and adding extra glyphs. Because I’m now freelancing, sometimes I’m booked on shorter projects. For those projects, I have to think a lot more quickly.
Madison Caprara:
And do you primarily work solo? Have you had any collaborative projects?
Angelica Baini:
Unfortunately because of the pandemic, I am working mostly on my own but I definitely love collaboration. I think in the past when I was working on explainers, it was very collaborative; working back and forth with scriptwriters, design, and animation. With my freelance work, the projects are mostly bigger productions, so they require a lot of collaboration.
In terms of personal projects, I love to collaborate with friends and other artists. I have an amazing group of art school friends, and we’ve done a few short films and comics. Lately, since being stuck at home, I balance a lot of different ideas with my partner who does motion and art direction as well. It’s been helpful to get a quick second opinion.
Madison Caprara:
It’s always great when you have that support system of like-minded people backing you up.
What do you love most about your field of work?
Angelica Baini:
What I love is that I’ve been able to jump on a variety of different projects throughout different industries. I’ve been able to work in news, social, gaming, etc. Along the way, I have met so many great people who have inspired me.
Madison Caprara:
On the flip side, are there are any negative traits or attitudes within the industry that you would like to see change?
Angelica Baini:
Yeah, the industry is still very much male-dominated. I hope to see a better balance. I definitely think there should be more opportunities given to BIPOC, Women, Queer, Gender-expansive people! We need to hear different stories and learn from other leaders.
Also, 3D in general is a field that is very tough to get into because of the expenses of the programs and equipment. It’s very costly. I would like to see it be more accessible and easier for others to break into.
Madison Caprara:
So, accessibility and inclusion!
From your vantage point, where do you see the future of this industry heading?
Angelica Baini:
Ultimately, I see art and design heading in the direction of creating with compassion and empathy in mind. Designing for good, and better causes. Working for companies that have the same values as you do.
Madison Caprara:
I love that for us!
Pivoting back to your creating process, where do you usually go for inspiration?
Angelica Baini:
As much as I love going to the internet to browse for hours - mood boarding - I think the best inspiration I get is when I take a break and go outside for a walk or just do something else. Lately, I’ve been really interested in making my own textures for some of my 3D pieces. I’ve been going out and photographing things. When I am outside, I start to notice so many details that I don’t usually notice when my vision is being consumed by the computer.
Madison Caprara:
And is there anything special we can look forward to seeing from you in the near future?
Angelica Baini:
Definitely! I am thinking about working in Substance Painter and expanding what I learned there into a short film soon. I’m really looking forward to collaborating with others on this!
Madison Caprara:
It was great getting to know you, Angelica! Wrapping up, do you have any closing advice or statements you’d like to share with the readers?
Angelica Baini:
From experience, anxiety would always hold me back from jumping into things that made me uncomfortable. It is in that discomfort where I have found growth. Moving to LA was very tough the first couple of years, I’m not going to lie. Here, finding a reasonably priced apartment with a parking spot and AC is a luxury! If you all choose to dive into something, it can be hard in the beginning, but things will work out. It’s also important to try to build your community of artists because ultimately they will help support you to continually learn, grow, and push yourself.
Q&A with Dash Bash Speaker, Jorge Canedo
dash’s, Mack Garrison, had a chat with Ordinary Folk’s owner and creative director, Jorge Rolando Canedo Estrada. Read on to get his take on starting a studio, portfolio vs. paying projects, and the importance of industry camaraderie.
Q&A with Jorge Canedo
Read time: 15min
Mack Garrison:
So maybe a good place to start would be, how did you get into Ordinary Folk? Where did Ordinary Folk originate from? Were you always thinking about wanting to start a studio?
Jorge Canedo:
I had the idea before I went to school. I had this bug in me that it would be cool to start something from the ground up. It never became real until after having had the experience of working at different studios. I worked at Buck, and then Giant Ant. Afterward, I decided that I was going to go freelance and got the chance to work with a bunch of other studios. Those experiences solidified my desire to start my own.
I didn't have a name for us for a long time. Then, I was reading a book and the last chapter talked about our role in the world. It talked about how people try to make it feel like making designs is going to change the world when in reality they won’t. At the end of the day, it's what you do, how you do it, and who you do it with that matters. Then, he quoted Gandalf. Something to the effect of, “it's the small deeds of ordinary folk that make a real difference.”
Jorge Canedo:
I was working as an Ordinary Folk incorporation for some time, but it was just me. Then we had a big project come in and I was like, "Oh, I could use some help." So I brought Victor in on a six-month contract. That six-month contract became a year contract. The year contract became a year and a half contract, but I still hadn't hired him because I was just so scared. Around that time, a lot of things fell into place. One person that I had worked with on other projects as a client said, "Hey if you ever need help producing, let me know." That was Stefan.
Shortly after, his department got dissolved so he was looking for a job. His last day was on a Friday, and his first day with us was the next Monday. Around the same time, Greg decided to come and visit out of nowhere. We had started talking seriously about hiring more people, so we hired Greg, hired Victor finally, and then decided to launch the studio.
Mack Garrison:
Wow, it sounds like it all happened pretty quickly. There was planning and thought, but it sort of was like, “all right, now's the time.” Do you feel like that's accurate? That it just came together?
Jorge Canedo:
I think so. It was stewing in my brain for a couple of years. Then in six months, we were doing the thing.
Mack Garrison:
How do you feel all of your past experiences have influenced what you're currently doing at the studio?
Jorge Canedo:
If I hadn't had the opportunity, if Jay wasn't as open as he was when allowing me into the core team of Giant Ant; seeing behind the scenes, and even being a part of more executive decisions. Without that experience, I wouldn't have felt as comfortable as I was to go on my own.
Ordinary Folk’s, “School of Motion: Manifesto.”
Mack Garrison:
When you started Ordinary Folk, how much of a plan was there around your work culture? Was that something you were cognizant of as you were starting to build it with the team that you wanted to bring in there? Or, did it naturally happen?
Jorge Canedo:
I was very, very conscious about it. Mostly because at the time I started Ordinary Folk, we had just had our second child. I knew that I wanted it to be a place where I could drop my kids off at school, come to work, and then be home for dinner-type thing. A place where if we wanted to do personal projects, we could just carve some time during the eight-hour day and make it happen.
A lot of times we will say no to projects because we know that they’re going to eat our souls. Or sometimes as a team, we will do these projects, but after we're going to do a whole bunch of other fun things or we'll close the studio for a week so that everyone can make up the time with their families. We do try to be family-oriented, and that doesn't just apply to our own, but also to us treating each other as a family. We're in it together. I try to keep it as close as possible. So in many ways, that dictates the people that we work with.
Mack Garrison:
One of the things that constantly surprises me is just how many new things pop up that I would never have accounted for in running a studio. You think you have a general idea of what's coming and what to plan for, but then there's always something unexpected. Is there anything that sticks out to you on your anniversary of Ordinary Folk that was surprising?
Jorge Canedo:
Yeah, the part that sometimes is hidden is dealing with people. Each person has a different way of taking feedback, responding to a brief, or solving a problem. All those things are so individual-specific. Being a good creative director at A studio doesn't necessarily mean that I'm going to be a good creative director at ANY studio. It's knowing how to properly direct a specific person on your team. Learning how different it is with each person, each individual, and each personality is probably one of the biggest surprises I'd say in the work-sphere.
Mack Garrison:
That's interesting.
Jorge Canedo:
Another thing has been trying to understand our holes and how to go about filling them smartly. There's been a temptation for us to bring in a bunch of animators for a single project. That struggle to keep the culture, keep the team small, and not to get too much into the new, shiny thing is always an effort.
Mack Garrison:
Definitely. For us it’s been, how do you scale your creative without losing the "it" factor? How much do you balance? Do you guys find yourself saying no to a lot of projects? Or, if the client is the right fit with the right budget, do you guys make it work?
Jorge Canedo:
We do say no a lot. Honestly, most no’s have been because of timelines. We try to keep a healthy work-life balance. If they ask us, "can you do it in three weeks," we'll try to push to do it in five weeks. Sometimes that happens, sometimes it doesn't, which means that we're fairly booked for one to two months in advance. Unless it's something incredible that we all want to do, generally the timeline doesn't work so we have to say, no.
That being said, I think I try to involve everybody as much as possible before we say yes to a project. Is it creatively fulfilling? Is it something everybody believes in? Does it benefit us financially? If we say, "okay, this project is going to be terrible, but we're going to be done with it in two weeks and it's going to be really, really profitable." And by terrible, I mean boring.
“it's the small deeds of ordinary folk that make a real difference.”
Mack Garrison:
...bad?
Jorge Canedo:
Just, very simple stuff that we could do in our sleep-type thing. When everybody seems to be on board with it, then we do it. On the other hand, this project came in and it was a pitch. We generally have a rule of no pitching. The team seemed to be okay with doing it and they were willing to sacrifice the extra time. But I wasn't. There were a lot of red flags that the team maybe couldn't see, from a production point of view. For example, the way they were managing communication.
I was like, "You know what? Even though this could be really cool, I think the safe bet is to stick to the projects we have and try to protect the team from this and ourselves." So, we ended up passing on it, and I'm not going to lie, it hurts. I feel like it could've been awesome, but you have to make the right choices. The hard choices.
Mack Garrison:
I find that one of the lessons that I've learned in the four years of doing dash is that I felt so obliged to say, yes, in the very beginning. As we've grown, I felt more comfortable saying, no. It's a hard thing to do, we still struggle. We have those same things you're talking about where it's like, “this is a cool project, but is it pressing our timelines? Is it pressing our process and how we go about stuff?” But, even when you say, no, to those things, it's still in the back of your mind.
You brought up something that I think is interesting; the balance of projects that pay the bills and keep the lights on for the studio versus the projects that are great portfolio pieces. Do you feel like you have a good grasp on the percentage of the work you're taking on throughout the year that just keeps the lights on, as opposed to the percentage of work that you feel like is portfolio-worthy?
“Epic;” partnership with Stephen McCaskell.
Jorge Canedo:
That's a great question. Because we've intentionally kept it small, we've been able to be picky. It's a blessing that we can say no to projects. A privilege that I don't take for granted, and it's a privilege that I feel like we may not always have. But because of that, I feel like we're still in the honeymoon phase. If there’s been a piece that we haven't been able to show, it's because the client hasn't let us. But everything else has pretty much made it into our portfolio.
Mack Garrison:
That’s great.
Jorge Canedo:
The only thing that we haven't shown is NDA stuff. This was for Google, or whoever. It can only live once, and once it's viewed it needs to be burned after reading. It's a shame because we were really happy with them. But other than that, I would say about 90% of our pieces have made it into a portfolio.
Mack Garrison:
That's fantastic.
You've brought up something I think is interesting. It's something I know I’ve struggled with in certain moments: when you're working with a big client and they have certain stipulations where they don't want you to show the project. Do you guys add a fee to that? Have you gotten any advice on how to handle a project when it's like that?
“being a creative director at A studio doesn't necessarily mean that I'm going to be a good creative director at ANY studio.”
Jorge Canedo:
Yeah, we're trying to set up a system for that, because more and more have been. We have a list of questions that we send before saying yes to any project. Are we going to be able to say that we did it? If not, then there's a conversation that it's going to cost you X more. We don't have a percentage necessarily because it's very much case-by-case. But even if we can't show it, we're going to put all of our efforts into it. In the end, we're making it for you.
Mack Garrison:
It's such a shame because our industry is so visual, and a lot of our work comes from what people are able to see in our portfolios. For the most part, clients only hire for what they can see, which is always a struggle.
But that's an interesting point. Let's pivot the conversation a little bit. Coming off of Blend Fest, I felt like you went from the talk of the town on where you wanted to go, and inspired us of course to do the dash bash. But I'm also seeing Camp MoGraph popping up, you have Half Rez in Chicago, I think I may have even seen that F5 is coming back. Why do you think there's such a resurgence in the popularity of these motion festivals? What do you think it is that gets people so excited?
Jorge Canedo:
That's an excellent question. I've talked with people in different industries; the film industry, the editing industry, even the gaming industry. There's something special about the motion design industry, in which it started with such a basic entry-level. You can watch a video tutorial and start moving stuff. It makes people connected online and it builds the foundation of a community that I dare to say is unlike any other; where people are very open, and willing to help each other out, answering questions, sharing things, and complimenting each other. That's what we saw on Vimeo. It’s how everybody got to know each other and see each other's work. So, it's just a natural consequence.
The way I see it, we're hanging out online. We might as well do it in real life. It's a reminder of why we do it, to get people excited again about what got them interested in motion design in the first place. All these various things. There's Mouvo, there's NodeFest, and there's so many more happening all over the world. It's great to see now. This is not just a Blend thing, this is a community mentality because we want to get together and see people's work. I don't think that's going to go away.
Mack Garrison:
I love it. Honestly, for us at least, dash started, let's see, what year was the first Blend Fest?
Jorge Canedo:
2005. No, 2015.
“there's something special about the motion design industry...you can watch a video tutorial and start moving stuff. it makes people connected online and builds the foundation of a community that I dare to say is unlike any other.”
Mack Garrison:
It was like September 2015 right? So, dash started in October of 2015. We were one month in when we went to Blend Fest. I remember as an upcoming studio in the middle of Raleigh, North Carolina, the middle of nowhere for most folks, it was so important to me to be able to go somewhere and connect with all these people that I'd known online but had no idea what they looked like. To be able to get their advice.
It was an incredibly helpful thing for an up-and-coming studio. Which is, of course, one of the reasons why we wanted to put this on. To give back to the community. As a final question before we can let you get out of here, after putting on Blend Fest for the last five years or so, what advice would you give for the dash bash that we should consider as we're finishing up our planning?
Jorge Canedo:
Just one?
Mack Garrison:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or, maybe a couple of key takes. Highlights, not to scare us.
Jorge Canedo:
I think that one thing that we keep remembering is that ultimately it's not really about networking. It's not about your speakers. Don’t get me wrong, those are important things. In some ways, those are your selling points. But, at the end of the day when you're there, it's about the people; making the people feel special. Be worried about the experience of someone coming in. How do they feel? How do they feel they’re being treated, like we're happy that they're there? Think of it as a party and you're the host, more so than you’re creating this networking event where you're going to come out with free contacts and merch.
Focus on the people. Like the way you speak of your studio; the culture, being a people-center. Bring that to the festival. That is one of the main things that Teresa, who is the other brain behind Blend, always cared about. Of course it's also one of the things that Claudio and Sander focus on, the four of us always tried to make the festival one we would love to attend. Another thing I keep going back to again and again is to make sure people remember the inspiring talks. Unfortunately, that's not the first thing people talk about when they experience Blend. They're talking about, "dude we had waffles and there was a band at the end!"
Mack Garrison:
Right!
Ordinary Folk’s, “Keep Looking,” for client, Desiring God.
Jorge Canedo:
Little things like that make people feel special, and I think that's one thing that I would say is very important. Be a good host.
Mack Garrison:
That's a good takeaway. We're excited about what's going to come this September. I’m looking forward to hanging out with you and everyone else who descends on Raleigh. Man, it's going to be a lot of fun. Well, Jorge, I can't thank you enough for hopping on a quick call with us for the interview.
Jorge Canedo:
It's worth it, man. I'm excited. I think you guys will do an awesome job, and I'm very excited for you guys.
Mack Garrison:
Awesome, thanks so much, Jorge. Say hey to the studio for us.
Jorge Canedo:
Will do. Bye.
Mack Garrison:
All right. See you, buddy. Bye.
A collection of some of Ordinary Folk’s favorite moments from their favorite projects thus far. Original music by Ambrose Yu
Things To Do In Raleigh, Part Two
We hear that good things come in pairs. You’ll have an entire weekend to romp around our city this September, make sure you do it like a true Raleigh local.
Find our first list here.
A list of cool Raleigh to do’s.
Read time: 10min
(1) Grab a bite…
Address:
413 Glenwood Ave, Raleigh, NC 27603
Details:
“The Cortez is a fresh seafood and small plates experience with a freshly kept selection of tropical cocktails that draw on their food memories travels through the years and Mexican-American heritage.”
Address:
428 S McDowell St, Raleigh, NC 27601
Details:
“Poole'side Pies specializes in Neapolitan-style pizza. Cooked in their 6,000-pound, Marra Forni wood-fired oven, every Poole'side pizza is crafted using local flour, house-made mozzarella, and organic Bianco DiNapoli tomatoes. Yet while they're pretty serious about their pizza technique, their decor is all about the laid-back vacation vibes-an airy, swimming pool-themed space marked by sky blue banquettes and a 52-foot skylight. Pair it all with a refreshing spritz, or a pour from the Italian-heavy wine list.”
Address:
603 W Morgan St, Raleigh, NC 27603
Details:
“A contemporary, stylish eatery featuring easy-going international dishes, cocktails, and a relaxed vibe..”
Address:
222 S Blount St, Raleigh, NC 27601
Details:
“Bida Manda is a thoughtful gathering place celebrating the diverse food traditions and culture of Laos. The Sanskrit ceremonial term for father and mother, Bida Manda, was created out of the deep love and appreciation of food and its power to bring people together.”
Address:
411 W Morgan St, Raleigh, NC 27603
Details:
“Morgan Street Food Hall is a new lifestyle dining concept; not to be confused with a food court. It features local eateries and restaurants as well as local food retailers. Morgan Street Food Hall introduces the concept of cross meal ordering, where different meals are enjoyed in a shared seating area.”
Address:
315 Blake St, Raleigh, NC 27601
Details:
“A lively, new Japanese restaurant and sushi bar putting modern spins on Japanese classics. Stop in for creative sushi rolls, bento boxes, and other Japanese eats in modern surrounds.”
(2) Buy a round (or two)…
Address:
319 W Davie St, Raleigh, NC 27601
Details:
“Focusing on craft beer and cultivating an active lifestyle in the community, Crank Arm Brewing is a locally owned brewery in downtown Raleigh, NC.”
Address:
201 W Martin St, Raleigh, NC 27601
Details:
“A chef's barroom and restaurant. One part Whiskey bar, one part world-class Southern kitchen born in downtown Raleigh, NC.”
Address:
222 Glenwood Ave, Raleigh, NC 27603
Details:
“A place where you can find farm-to-table creations with the Latin American roots of their chef’s, mind-blowing cocktails. Their menu is designed to share, providing a unique and affordable experience full of good memorable moments.”
Address:
330 West Davie Street, Raleigh, NC 27601
Details:
“Located in Raleigh’s famous downtown Warehouse District, this bar and arcade is home to hundreds of arcade-style games, including 70+ classic and modern arcade cabinets, over a dozen pinball machines, and 175+ console games. They have a full liquor bar with 24 rotating craft drafts.
Address:
614 Glenwood Ave, Raleigh, NC 27603
Details:
“A rustic-chic bar offering 350+ beers on tap and modern comfort fare in a bi-level space with a patio. Fun Fact: they’re in the Guinness World Records for having the largest selection of draft beers available in a single restaurant.”
Address:
616 St Marys St, Raleigh, NC 27605
Details:
“Cocktails, hookah, and apps. Enough said.”
(3) Have a sweet tooth..?
Address:
327 W Davie St, Raleigh, NC 27601
Details:
“An artisan chocolatier offering self-guided tours, plus a cafe for chocolate bars, bonbons, and espresso.”
Address:
104 Glenwood Ave, Raleigh, NC 27603
Details:
“A cozy, stylish bakery whipping up bespoke cakes, cupcakes, pastries, and espresso drinks.
Address:
2261 New Hope Church Rd, Raleigh, NC 27604
Details:
“La Horchateria was created to bring traditional Latin sweets with an American twist to the city of Raleigh. We recommend the mini concha ice cream sandwich and the churro sundae.”
Address:
3801 Hillsborough St, Raleigh, NC 27607
Details:
“A hip coffeehouse with baked goods, local art exhibits, and open-mike nights.”
Address:
500 E Davie St STE 107, Raleigh, NC 27601
Details:
“Benchwarmers Bagels makes great bagels using fresh-milled, pre-fermented heirloom grains, extended fermentation, and a wood-fired oven. Their spiced honey cream cheese is both literally and figuratively FIRE.”
(4) Get out there…
Address:
4601 Avent Ferry Rd, Raleigh, NC 27606
Details:
“Lake Johnson is a recreation area with 5.4 miles of trails around a lake, along with boat rentals, picnic areas, and fishing hubs.”
Address:
223 S West St, Raleigh, NC 27601
Details:
“A hidden gem in Raleigh, known for the best skyline views! Not only is it free to visit the Dillion, but you can also bring your own food and drinks (as long as no event is going on). Find the entrance right next to Barcelona Wine Bar’s patio. Take the elevator up to the 9th floor, walk through the public lobby, and enjoy the views.
Address:
8801 Glenwood Ave, Raleigh, NC 27617
Details:
“A state park that covers 5,599 acres nestled between the cities of Raleigh, Cary, and Durham. If you’re a hiker, trail runner, bicyclist, or equestrian, this is your place.”
Explore Downtown Raleigh
Details:
“Downtown Raleigh has tons of free things to do and see! This includes murals, museums, a free tour at the Capital, and Glenwood Sout.
If you’re looking for a good place to take a souvenir flick, some of our favorite city murals are:
407 Glenwood Ave, Raleigh, NC 27601
201 E Davie St, Raleigh, NC 27601
428 S McDowell St, Raleigh, NC 27601
310 S Harrington St, Raleigh, NC 27601
Find the full list of public art spots here.
Address:
126 E. Cabarrus St. Raleigh, NC
Details:
“If variety is the spice of life, then the Lincoln Theatre is serving up a lot of spice. This music venue hosts everything from local artists to cover bands. The tiered space guarantees you’ll be able to see the stage while having plenty of room to dance.”
(5) Shop local…
Address:
2402 Clark Ave, Raleigh, NC 27607
Details:
“Minimalist gold and brass jewelry, handmade by Sophie Wiseman-Floyd in Raleigh, NC.”
Address:
501 E Davie St, Raleigh, NC 27601
Details:
“North Carolina’s First Cocktail Bitters Company, established in 2012. Their cocktail bitters and shrub syrup concentrates are hand-crafted in small batches from 100% maceration in organic, non-GMO alcohol, with no glycerin, chemicals, or dyes. Glass pots or wood barrels are used exclusively in the storage and aging of their products.”
Address:
719 N Person St, Raleigh, NC 27604
Details:
“A small, independent bookstore in downtown Raleigh.”
Address:
18 Glenwood Ave, Raleigh, NC 27603
Details:
“Raleigh Vintage specializes in quality vintage clothing, home goods, and natural apothecary. They offer vintage for a modern, sustainable lifestyle.”
Address:
14 Glenwood Ave, Raleigh, NC 27603
Details:
“If you're dipping your toe in the vinyl pool or looking to complete your collection, this is the place for you. Sound Off carries a large stock of 12" LPs, 7" singles, and an always-changing selection of vintage receivers, amps, speakers, and turntables.”
Address:
1818 Oberlin Rd #103, Raleigh, NC 27608
Details:
“Cap the day off with a cap’. Idle Hour is a boutique coffee shop serving delicious coffee and sandwiches.”
Takeover Tuesday with Megan Pelto
Q&A with Megan Pelto, a freelance illustrator in Portland, Oregon.
Q&A with Megan Pelto.
Read time: 5min
Madison Caprara:
Hi, Megan! Thank you for taking the time to speak with me! Why don’t you tell us a little bit about yourself? How did you find yourself getting into the illustration game?
Megan Pelto:
Hi! I am a freelance illustrator, originally from Massachusetts but have moved around a lot while working on my career. I love hiking and getting outside, so if I am not drawing I’m usually somewhere outdoors. I have loved drawing my whole life and spent a lot of time, from elementary school through high school, creating art. I really gravitated towards illustration as I loved the storytelling aspect combined with drawing. I ended up majoring in Illustration at SCAD, but when I first chose that major I was still learning what I wanted to do with it.
Madison Caprara:
For those who may not be familiar, how would you go about describing your personal style?
Megan Pelto:
My style is pretty fun and combines simple shapes with chosen details. I like using different textured brushes and limited colors. Focusing on the outdoors and cozy scenes within my work is pretty standard for me, but I also feel like my style is constantly growing and changing! I used to work only traditionally, a lot of pencil drawings and paintings, so when I started to work mainly digitally at the end of college, my work shifted too.
Madison Caprara:
As technology continues to expand, do you believe there is still room in the game for those hand-drawn, or in your words, “traditional” illustrations, or is it all about the digital designs now?
Megan Pelto:
I think there will always be room for hand-drawn work. I am not sure how much so in the motion design industry, as a lot of projects do need things to be easier to animate and thus digital, but I know many artists who still do hand-drawn or a mixture of the two. That will always remain even if a lot of careers in animation or advertising tend to lean more towards the digital.
Madison Caprara:
I think I would have to agree with you, Megan.
Pivoting back to the topic of style, how important do you think it is to have a strong, recognizable aesthetic?
Megan Pelto:
I believe it can be a benefit but it is not a requirement. I have worked with amazing artists with a large range of styles. Some are super-specific, while others are skilled in a variety of areas. Being able to do both is a good skill to have, it takes a lot to have your own style but it also takes a lot to be able to jump into new styles for different projects! In my personal work, I have an overall style, in my client work, however, I work in a wide range of styles.
Madison Caprara:
It’s all about that adaptability!
Where are you based right now? Are you still in Massachusetts? Either way, what is the industry like there?
Megan Pelto:
I am based in Portland, OR, but I just relocated here from LA in March of this year. I had moved to Los Angeles to be able to work in the motion design industry. It was the necessary step to be able to work with all of the studios I admired. Now that I am in Portland, there is still a strong industry here but on a much smaller scale when compared to LA. I work remotely for the most part and hope to continue to do so moving forward so that I can work with studios both in Portland and beyond!
Madison Caprara:
You work primarily freelance now, correct? What has been your overall experience? Good? Bad?
Megan Pelto:
I have been working fully freelance since the summer of 2019. My experience has been really good, but it did take a lot of time and work to build up to that point. Prior to this, I did freelance for two years after graduating from SCAD in 2015. From 2017-2019 I was on staff at BUCK in LA for two years before transitioning back to freelance. I think freelancing in motion design is awesome, but I know it is also different than freelancing in other creative fields.
Madison Caprara:
From the two-plus years of experience you now have, do you think working as a freelancer is a suitable career path for a graduate just beginning their career, or would you suggest working for a larger company or agency first?
Megan Pelto:
I really think it can depend. When I graduated I wanted to try freelance right away, but that was hard to do. Though I had majored in Illustration, I took a motion design elective class my senior year and fell in love with that work. Prior to that, motion design had never been talked about or mentioned as a career path for illustrators and wasn’t well-known in my department. That may have changed since I graduated, however. I spent the majority of my time working on personal projects, while consistently contacting new people and researching opportunities.
After graduation, I had moved to Chicago and was looking for opportunities there. I ended up interning at Digital Kitchen for seven months which really helped me get some studio experience. It’s there that I learned from people what freelancing in motion design was like. I began freelancing after that but it was tough getting enough consistent work to feel comfortable, especially when having to afford to live in a large city.
Megan Pelto:
I had been freelancing for two years, hoping to break into the motion design industry. While I had had bookings with studios, things changed when I received a two-week freelance opportunity at BUCK LA. After that, I decided that I would move to Los Angeles to freelance and really pursue working with all of my dream studios. Shortly before my move I heard from BUCK and was offered an internship which led to being staff a few months after arriving in LA. Being on-staff at BUCK is what truly helped me take that next step, so I do strongly believe that working at a studio can ultimately help your freelance career. By having to illustrate every single day, I really saw self-improvement. I was working with amazing designers and ADs who helped my work grow. Also, it was pretty invaluable to meet people in person and form connections, which I find to be harder when working remotely or even when freelancing at a new place each week.
Madison Caprara:
Great advice all around. Do you have any other tidbits you would give to those just beginning their career?
Megan Pelto:
It’s not fun to hear, but I really encourage just giving it time. Be patient! Even though it was tough for two years before moving to LA, I was still able to freelance full time as an illustrator by being careful with money. Also, don’t hesitate to reach out to people in the field, most people are really nice and want to help! I have connected artists with studio internships and freelance work in the past and always strive to help, whether it be through advice or passing along an email. Always keep trying, I probably applied for jobs at BUCK at least four times before ever hearing back about a freelance job with them, so it's always worth it to keep pursuing even when you feel like you aren’t getting anywhere.
Madison Caprara:
In my experience, some of the best advice is the hardest to swallow.
So you went from studying at SCAD to working at BUCK, to now doing freelance work in 2021. With how crazy this past year has been, how does the external affect your art?
Megan Pelto:
It definitely affected my passion for creating personal work. I am really thankful that freelance work stayed just as busy, but the year certainly took a toll on my motivation. It was healthier for me to take a step back from personal work. I really value getting outside, so feeling a bit stuck in my hot LA apartment far away from any family was a hard year. Remember to take some pressure off of yourself. I let myself take more breaks and just focused on getting through. It was difficult, but I am grateful for being able to work and stay safe when many could not. My personal work hasn’t really picked up again yet but I think as things continue to improve, I’ll continue building motivation. Right now, all I want to do is be outside and I’m okay with that!
Madison Caprara:
And when you find that motivation hitting, where do you go for inspiration?
Megan Pelto:
Outside! Nature is my biggest inspiration. I love to draw the things I enjoy, like trees and cozy cups of coffee. Also, I am often inspired by other artists' work. I truly just love to draw, so sometimes that entails trying to come up with an idea just to have something to work on.
Madison Caprara:
Outside…I should’ve known!
Do you have a top three favorite illustrators list?
Megan Pelto:
I definitely don’t have a top three. I love so many illustrators' work and so many different genres. Often I tend to have favorite illustrations versus a single artist. I have all kinds of stuff saved on my phone and it’s made up of so many different types of creatives. My favorite work does usually come from motion design, be it the studios or individuals that work in the field, so much amazing work is made in this industry and I will always be grateful to be part of it.
Madison Caprara:
Looking forward, what does the rest of 2021 look like for you? Is there anything special we should be looking out for?
Megan Pelto:
I am keeping 2021 very open! I have worked on some really fun projects with places like oddfellows, BIEN, BUCK, Facebook, and SodaStream. I never know what work I will be able to share, so I am just excited for the fun projects I have had and will continue to work on this year. I am not making long-term work plans as I am leaving more free time to finally get to travel to see my family in Massachusetts.
I plan to head to the East Coast in July and then backpack with some of my family in the North Cascades in WA in August. I also am still super new to Portland so I am excited to continue to meet people here and explore all of it and try new hikes each month. Work is still important and I love what I do, but after last year, other things are my priority for 2021!
Madison Caprara:
Yes! I’ve noticed that the balance of work and life is a little skewed within this industry. More priority needs to be placed on the mental health upkeep of all you creatives out there.
Well, we’re reaching the end of our time, Megan. Do you have any closing points or statements you would like to share?
Megan Pelto:
Whenever possible, strive for a healthy work/life balance! Motion design is often 10a-7p which can be late hours compared to most jobs, so make sure to take time off or take a long walk on slower workdays. It’s good to put a lot into your work but put equal parts of that energy into your personal life as well.
Discussing the Evolution of the Animation Industry with TJ Kearney
We sat down with TJ Kearney, Global Director of Content at Work & Co. and former founding partner of oddfellows, to speak on the debate of being a generalist vs specialist, the growing importance of social media, and more!
Q&A with TJ Kearney
Read time: 20min
Mack Garrison:
I advise others, but I also need to listen to it myself. I was talking to someone the other day, a student, about how whatever you put up on your website is what people will ultimately hire you for. Advertise what it is you want to do. dash has done a really good job of defining a style that we're good at; colorful vector, snappy, bubbly-type animation. The problem is, we've started to notice that that's the only recurring work we're getting from people, but we can do a lot more.
So, one of our goals this year is to push into creating stuff that feels different than what's already on our portfolio. To try to say, "Hey look, yeah, we can knock this explainer video out of the park for you, but here are some other things that we can do as well."
TJ Kearney:
You and I were talking about this the other day. It doesn't matter how talented your studio is, even if you have crazy stuff on your reel that brought the client to you in the first place. They can still reach a point where they say, "Well, have you done this exact thing? Have you done animated food?" And you're like, "Of course I can do that, but I don't have it in my reel." That can be a deal-breaker. Sometimes people want to see that one exact thing.
As you said, you have this one style, so clients are only seeing that one style. We ran into that when I had a studio. We started only doing 3D, eventually, we started hiring cel animators. Suddenly, we couldn't win any 3D work because we had nothing to show. It’s something important to think about as you're curating; what you're putting out into the world. Make sure it's leading to the next thing, rather than just showing what you've already done in the past.
Mack Garrison:
How'd y'all get out of that? Was it just that emphasis and focus on creating new work that showed you could do a more diverse style?
TJ Kearney:
It was a mixture. In the beginning, we’d sneak it in wherever we could, even if it wasn't a part of what the client asked for. Then, a lot of it came down to personal projects and putting up work that aligned with what we wanted to do. I also think it was a result of how we built our staff.
We were 3D heavy in the beginning, but as we grew our staff, we started adding people that augmented that team and added to it. As a result, our aesthetic changed, and the work we started putting out reflected that. But then we almost went too far in the other direction where it's like, "Okay, well now we haven't touched 3D in six months plus, so now it's harder for us to sell in 3D." That's fine if you don't want to be doing that, but if you want to have a diverse range, then you have to be continually updating the work while making sure that you have a consistent flow of multiple types of work so that people can see what you’re capable of.
“it’s something important to think about as you're curating: what you're putting out into the world. make sure it's leading to the next thing, rather than just showing what you've already done in the past.”
Mack Garrison:
I've been surprised how much social media has started to influence our projects and the work we're landing. You mentioned posting little personal pieces or side projects to show what you're capable of doing. I feel we've been focused on just putting a lot of stuff out on social media for exposure within our communities so that people know who we are. It's impacted a lot of the clientele that follow us.
I can't tell you how many times I've gotten calls that have been like, "Oh, I saw this post that you guys put out the other day. It looks like it's the perfect fit for this project that we're working on. You want to talk about it?" I never thought that social media would have pivoted to a point where it has such a direct impact on our work.
TJ Kearney:
I try to keep in mind that the people who’re hiring you more often than not are the art and design directors. They're always pulling you for reference, and not necessarily just you, but also pulling from socials. Years ago, your only options were to go to a rep and see what the rep presented to you. Go to Motionographer. Go to Stash. Go to these places that were highlighting a select few. Now, the middleman has been cut out of that whole scenario. Art directors are looking at Instagram just as much as anybody else, and they're the target.
The trap there and the thing I get worried about is the pressure to constantly update your socials. What ends up happening is you put out a bunch of work more frequently, and it's not as high a caliber as it used to be. However, I lean more towards consistently updating while not feeling the pressure that you have to put something on every day or even every week. Once or twice a quarter is fine. Make sure you have a presence out there, but also make sure what you're putting out is differentiating you because of its higher quality.
Mack Garrison:
I feel the same trap of assimilating into a particular style. Things get saturated, as far as where people are trying to find inspiration. Work starts to look similar. You have a couple of big players that come out with something that looks relatively unique, then, all of a sudden, you get a million copycats that push in that direction. As an industry, that's one area that we can improve; pushing new avenues. Though, I do feel motion design is one of the few areas bridging this gap between all of the different fields. You have new technology coming out; people coming into it who have a background in code, graphic design, illustrators, designers. It's a hodgepodge of people that get into this field.
TJ Kearney:
That ties back to the social media posting everyone’s pulling from. You've got two or three different routes; you’ve got direct-to-client work, working with an agency involved as a middleman between you, or, you're working with a studio that you're running everything for them. You run into issues less with that third one. The other two have art directors that have been selling through to the client. Even if they're internal, they’ve been selling an aesthetic before you even get to the table. They've had weeks or months worth of conversations to get the budget unlocked. Usually, they’ve been pulling the same work that everybody else is. By that time, their higher-ups are already expecting something to look a certain way and it becomes that much harder for you to push.
Unfortunately, some of that gets taken out of your hands at the studio. A lot falls on your client relations; getting yourself up the food chain so that you're having that conversation early on before things are locked in. I think that this is where it gets interesting. Right? You've got studios - Golden Wolf is a great example - where they have an aesthetic and a theme. You know what you're buying into. Then, you have some more diverse studios. That's where you’ll get a broader spectrum to get hired. At the same time, they may come to you with a very clear direction before you even get your chance to put your stamp on it.
“25th Anniversary” — Cartoon Network
Mack Garrison:
100%. Even just saying, "Golden Wolf," everyone reading will picture exactly what that style of work is. I'm sure it's the same deal for the clients who want to hire them. It's like, "Well, we know we can get diversity in what we want our final project to be, but, in general, we want it to be in this style. So let's go to the best of the best who does that."
On the flip side, if you're more of a generalist, you might not be the go-to studio to do that. Ultimately, it depends on how you want to position yourself in the market. I'm curious about your take on this as well. Now’s the time if you’re a specialist. Be good at something, get hired for being the best at that. But, if you're looking for more long-term security in the industry, I think being a generalist makes more sense. It gives you ultimate flexibility while allowing you to pivot with new trends and technology. Do you have a thought on which is better?
TJ Kearney:
I think better is an interesting term. It comes down to your individual goals, whether at a studio or as a freelancer. Either is a gamble. If you're a generalist, you're probably not going to make as much due to your wide spectrum. The good thing is that you're going to get volume, so you'll have more opportunities come to you. But I wouldn't be surprised if the budgets go up. Right?
Instead, when you start to see the budgets go up, that’s when you have a hyper-focused type of team or individual. You especially see this in illustration where you’ll have an illustrator who's popular and has a distinct style. They could be three times the price of any other illustrator, but the client wants that one style. So, they're going to invest in the more expensive person. The problem is, you're waiting for clients who want that one thing or that one look. The phone will ring a little less frequently when you're that specialized, but you can charge a premium for it. That's all well and good when times are really good…
Mack Garrison:
...when that style's really in.
TJ Kearney:
That's the thing, it has a time limit. That style's not going to be in for the entirety of anyone's career. For that reason, I think being a generalist is safer. For freelancers, it comes down to where you want to work. If you just want to make sure you're making a paycheck, or you want to work at agencies, being a generalist makes a lot of sense. They’re going to have you work on tons of different types of work. If you want to work at a studio, most studios are looking for hyper-focused individuals. They have a need. They're trying to augment or add to their team. So many animators that are coming out of school right now, if you want to get into a studio, you have to differentiate yourself. It comes down to the individual's goals; depending on what you want, where you want to end up, and consistency versus quality. Those are the decision-makers for where you put your energy.
“it comes down to the individual's goals; depending on what you want, where you want to end up, and consistency versus quality. those are the decision-makers for where you put your energy.”
Mack Garrison:
That's a really interesting take on it. Using them as a continued example, I think about Golden Wolf. The type of person that would go there is very specific. On the other hand, I think about all of the random projects that come in the door. For some, it's more beneficial to have people with a multitude of skill sets. We may have someone working in pre-production who’ll then be animating the next day. Or, maybe they're conceptualizing some stuff. Having people that are versatile and can hop around is helpful, but maybe you don’t necessarily need to be versatile in a bunch of different styles, but versatile on how you take that style and apply it to different areas of the process. Whereas, in an agency, you may be more involved in all different areas, a studio you might be more specific.
Let me ask you this, TJ, let's say you're starting a studio. You open it up. ‘TJ Kearney R Us,’ or whatever it's called. How do you think you would approach it? Would you do anything differently? Would you be hyper-focused? More of a generalist?
TJ Kearney:
A few things, I would not hire based on skill set, but based on personalities. I’d build a team that works well together with skills that benefit one another. Then, I would learn to sell around that. What I've learned throughout my career is people buy into hyper-focused and well-running machines. Anyone, any client can go hire an animator. They do all the time. So, why do they need you?
You've built a unit, a team, that works so well together that they pump out work at a higher caliber than any freelancers or group they could bring in. That's the difference. When I first started, there were really big egos and a lot of assholes in the industry, to be honest. People could get away with that because they were buying into the fact that there were only a handful of people that could do the work. So, there were a few people that made a ton of money. They could treat their assistants like crap and get away with it because they were the only ones that could do it.
“Great Sleep” — Casper
TJ Kearney:
Let's be honest, we have an oversaturated market of talent. There are so many kids graduating, young talent coming out that's affordable. But, that only gets you so far. It's the teams that work well together and are going to make something better than any thrown together team can.
What I've learned the most out of all the companies I've worked with, is the importance of finding what you're good at, focusing on it, and becoming a leader in it. That means, for the most part, that you don't pivot, but when you do, you go all in. Those are the biggest things; team personality and makeup, finding what you're good at, making sure you stand out, and even if you take on and you are diverse within the walls of your studio don't sell yourself as a bunch of different things.
Mack Garrison:
I love where this conversation is going. Sometimes with direct to client projects, a lot of the clients are used to working with agencies. They're used to working with groups that have more capabilities than what a studio might offer. But the industry is shifting and some of these bigger companies are gaining in-house teams. Despite that, clients don't necessarily have the need for a big turnkey agency. They want to go to a studio for their animation needs, however, they're still wanting more of what they've gotten from an agency. Of course, it's just like a cheaper price because you're coming to a studio.
It's really important not to water down your focus and to be good at one thing, you know? As soon as you start to become too broad - you start doing media buys or try to become the motion studio that transitions into an agency - you’ll start falling short on promises and what you do well. Off that same line, aside from bringing in creative roles, what are some other roles you think are crucial that motion studios out there might overlook?
TJ Kearney:
I'm going to be biased to producers. I'm a producer.
Mack Garrison:
Right.
TJ Kearney:
There are a lot of studios that started with just creative, that's the biggest mistake. You need a strong producer that can handle tough conversations with clients, lawyers, and accountants. Especially when you're a small company. The reality is, you're not going to have an HR department. So they've got to fill in as HR and office management as well. They wear all these different hats. That's step one.
Step two...having a partner. You don't necessarily need to hire in-house accountants or anything like that, but having a financial partner that can guide you is something that's often overlooked. Also, lawyers are really important partners to have on hand. Then when it comes to augmenting your staff, I would focus on writers and developers. Having developer partners is going to open up the doors for a lot of where the industry's headed next. When I was starting, everything was television. TV and cinema then started evolving into digital and the web. We’ve had this golden period of making a bunch of online how-to and intro videos, but we're seeing those budgets get cut in half. Right? Now, we're trying to figure out how to get scrappy. But rather than fighting each other over the scraps at the end, why don't we focus on what's next?
Mack Garrison:
That’s a good point.
“what I've learned the most out of all the companies I've worked with is the importance of finding what you're good at. focusing on it, and becoming a leader in it.”
TJ Kearney:
That and media buying have been my focus. Most studios don't, but I think it is really important. Here at Work & Co, I have a content team, development team, and our design team. Also, a company that we purchased, called AKDM that does all the media planning and buying.
Mack Garrison:
You know, I think there's tension in the industry. Bigger agencies are getting smaller. You have freelancers who are becoming more capable. Kids are coming out of school who are doing phenomenal stuff. So, the industry is kind of pitching. What used to be brought into work for the studio is now getting taken away by freelancers and some of the top-tier studios are now taking work away from some of those agencies. There's going to be a lot more partnerships starting to happen. Because branding is going to be a really important element of this, but so is systemizing the motion.
We had a piece we worked on with a brand agency called New Kine, they needed us to come in and help with the video. So, it became like a partnership, we were brought into the conversations. It was all transparent, and in the end, we went our separate ways. They were able to deliver on a client's needs without having to take on the overhead or manage something that was out of their wheelhouse. I think there's going to be a lot more of that, particularly as shops become smaller while trying to be a little more nimble.
TJ Kearney:
I think you hit something important there. A partnership has to be a partnership, not a vendor relationship. When that branding studio brought you to the table, it was about both going to conversations together. When you're building these relationships, I wouldn't wait until the need arises. Then, you're scrambling. Instead, I would get ahead of it and build those relations now so that when the opportunity comes up, you're already fluid. You're used to working together and you know how it's going to work.
Mack Garrison:
That's a great analogy. That preparedness, thinking ahead is the biggest thing. It's easy to get caught up, especially when you're busy with projects that you're hyper-focused on. One of the things that I've learned from running the studio is that you have to be looking ahead; what projects are coming in, your revenue stream, is there going to be slower months? All are imperative and are examples of why having good management is so important.
What might be a good thing to speak on is the producer role. For myself, my role is pretty blended. I'm a producer, a creative director, an accountant, and I'm also writing company. It's all over the place, but a true producer role. What are the expectations of a producer?
TJ Kearney:
The true role of a producer varies by their level and specific title, right? You have junior producers, studio producers, broadcast producers, and digital producers. You also have senior and finally executive producers. Everybody has their different title. At a junior producer level, you're learning on the job. My expectations are you’re taking notes in the meetings, you’re checking in and making sure the shots are getting done on time while also reporting back. This will vary depending on the size of the company.
Standard producers can handle one to two projects by themselves. They escalate things to the executive producer and are the bad guys when needed. They're always going to have their scopes vetted by a senior or an executive producer before they go out. But I’d expect to be able to hand them a project and run the day to day and make sure it gets done.
TJ Kearney:
Senior producers are going to do all that, plus be able to handle multiple projects at a time at a full load. All the while, mentoring the younger producers. Finally, you've got your executive producers. In my mind, they’re the parents of the studio or team. Their job is to build that team to deal with inner conflict, make sure to find opportunities to grow staff members, and ultimately looking ahead to ensure there's work every day for that team; planning for the next quarter, making sure the work that's going out is leading to the company goal and creating opportunities that lead to the type of work that the studio wants to stand for. They're the ones that are going to be having the tough financial conversation. They're the ones that are going to have to deal with someone getting let go. All of those heavier situations.
“29 Rooms” — Refinery29
Mack Garrison:
There's not always a right answer for something. Sometimes a new request comes in that you’ve never dealt with one before. When you get situations like that, what's your solution strategy? For unprecedented situations, how would you advise some younger producers?
TJ Kearney:
When I started, I was frustrated. I was always told this industry is about who you know, and I didn't know anybody. I worried about breaking and making those connections. The hardest part when you're a young producer is realizing that producing comes with time. There's nothing you can do about it. You have to work your way through a bunch of different projects to start understanding what's needed, what unforeseen things to anticipate. That knowledge only comes with repetition and experience.
Another thing, every team you work with is different. A lot of times you'll see a producer who's like, “well, I had this team that was able to do this in two weeks.” Your new staff may take four weeks to do the same task. So, it's about knowing who your team is, what they can do, and how well they can do it.
Mack Garrison:
When you're a producer, you're talking about experience and how you need to build experience to make decisions. For someone who's up and coming, particularly maybe if you're the sole producer at a studio full of creatives, you may not have a mentor. How do you make tough decisions when you feel like there's nothing that you can back it up against? Is there a methodology you do in this situation?
TJ Kearney:
Getting back to what I was saying before about not knowing anyone, build a network that you can bounce ideas off of. They don't have to work at your studio. We all are guessing. It's the Wild West. Everyone's just making it up. The rate of what something costs is whatever you can get away with at the end of the day. So, it's tough to say, “here's the set of rules to use for producing,” because they don't exist. My whole career, I haven't had to deal with print. So, when I have a print ask, I have producers I can reach out to with that background. They help guide me. The misnomer that a producer should know everything isn’t possible.
Mack Garrison:
It's great to hear you say that. I think about when I was first getting into animation and motion design, I was a junior animator. As you get older, you gain more experience and realize that, to your point, no one in the game knows what they're doing. Everyone's just figuring it out. Once you conclude, it gives you the confidence to handle difficult situations consistently. The biggest thing that I've learned is whatever decision you make, make it, learn from it and be consistent with how you approach that in the future.
TJ Kearney:
Exactly. The difference between a junior producer and somebody seasoned, is a junior producer tends to fake it till they make it, pretend like they have all the answers when they don't know what they're talking about and do it as tight of a budget as they think they can get away with; all the things that bite you in the ass. Every one of them.
When you're a seasoned producer, you've got nothing to lose. Your job is pretty secure because you're a very senior person in this industry. So when you're at that level, you're able to say like, I don't fucking know and that's okay. I’ve made a fool of myself several times by just pretending I knew what I was talking about. When you're more senior, you don't sweat it. You say I need more time. You say I need to ask some questions first. I'll get back to you. You pad your budgets because you know that whatever you think it's going to take, it's going to take more than that.
“a partnership has to be a partnership. not a vendor relationship.”
Mack Garrison:
That's so accurate. It’s all about learning from experiences, which might be a good segue to a question for you. Are there any key moments of mistakes that have stuck with you?
TJ Kearney:
There are a few. At my very first job as a producer, I was working in visual effects and finishing house. We were finishing spots, big national broadcast spots, and stuff. We had to get ISCI codes so that we could play everything. ISCI codes are becoming rare, but at the time I had no idea what the fuck ISCI code was. I was too embarrassed to ask anyone though. Then, I did a Google search for ISCI and saw some definition of it as a password. I just went in, really confidently, to the client. I was like, "Yeah, let's set that password." They were like, "What are you talking about? That's not what an ISCI..." The client had to teach me what was in the room. You’re better off asking upfront, than being embarrassed after the fact.
Also, early on, my scopes were light, especially in assumptions. Remember, just because a client may have had animated thoughts before, doesn't mean they know what it takes to do what we do. I’d say, "We'll deliver you a spot, it'll be 60 seconds." That's about it. What I didn't build in back then was, "This is the style that we're locking in on." Or, "This is the round of reviews." A costly one for me was a really big tech job early on. We were supposed to run, around eight to ten weeks. In the end, it ran for eight months.
Mack Garrison:
Oh, wow.
TJ Kearney:
The client was frustrated, they felt the scope was deliverable space and we hadn't delivered against what they were requesting. I felt it was time and material space, but the scope was too loose to prove either of us right. Just made this uncomfortable situation. Do all the tough conversations before you get started. Make sure your contract is buttoned up. Make sure you've thought of every possible left turn that's going to come along the way, that it's written into your scope so that when it comes, no one's caught off guard, which happens a lot.
Mack Garrison:
That has to be a universal mistake. I'm cringing a bit because I look at what our SOWs were when we first started. What we send now is drastically different. I was guilty of the one line, "Here's the price, here are some references." I'll break things out line by line, to even storyboard style frames, keyframes, animatics to show the process, and what we're building into that. Laying out review times, because even with the best intentions, something always comes up. You just want to make sure that when there is an issue, you have a roadmap on how to handle it.
TJ Kearney:
It's brutal. Important things that get left out there are about breaking things down for granular. For me, I set out the ideal review cadence that I'm anticipating for the whole project within the contract itself, including how many hours the client has to respond with feedback before the change order kicks in. What I get asked a lot by younger producers is, "We're still only doing the number of reviews that we agreed to in our contract, but the client's taking a week to get back to us every round, and we're losing all this time." If you haven't built that into your contract, you screwed yourself.
Mack Garrison:
Right. Particularly on those event-driven deadlines, it's contingent on them responding. That's lost production.
When we first started the company, I remember reading books. Gino Whitman had this book, “Traction.” It spoke about systems and organization, as a creative, I didn’t think it was for us. I turned an eye towards having stock prices or systems for how we quote things out. But, the more I've grown in my position, the more that I've learned to like systems. They create an efficient machine. What are your thoughts on systemizing? Is it good or does it take away from the quality?
TJ Kearney:
I see two sides of that coin. I can tell you what I do now. I have boilerplate signs that are four different tiers of projects. If we need to turn out something quickly, we already have a keynote built that says, "Here are some examples of that style. Here are the deliverables that typically come with that style." Then, I give ranges. I won't get granular at that point, it's more like, "Okay well, that type of project typically costs $xx." Whatever it ended up being, you should anticipate the project will be between $xx and $xx. That's a variance in price there, comes down to music, video licensing types of things, or how intricate we get with the animation. We have a range there, to where we can scale back if this budget's the issue, or we can scale up if quality is the goal. From there, I try to use those to present what their feedback is and what they're reacting to. But, you don't want to pigeonhole yourself; presenting references the same, limiting your team. You could just fall into a pattern of repetition which is problematic in itself. By keeping everything a little more bespoke, you leave the door open to other styles and opportunities.
The other benefit to systematizing is consistency. The last agency I was at, every bid that went out was wildly different. The rates were different. Even if the ask was the same, depending on which team you were working with, or which producer happened to do that scope, you would get back different rates. That isn't so much a concern when you're a small studio, but as you get bigger, that's problematic. You don't want one client coming to you multiple times with the same ask and getting three completely different rates, it makes you look unprofessional.
“Video Awareness” — Twitter
TJ Kearney:
By systematizing things, as you grow and you add producers to your team, you're ensuring everything that comes out of your studio is consistent.
Mack Garrison:
That’s accurate. I think back to what we were charging when we first started, we're four times those rates now. Partly because, initially, you're like, "I don't want to go under." But being confident to say "No" to projects that you know aren't the right fit, that was hard. Knowing you had the time to take on the project, but it just wasn't quite enough money. One thing we found helpful was to have a baseline retainer. That was a pivoting point, maybe a year or two, where I started to think we could start to push to do what we wanted to do. Do you feel the same way? Does every studio or agency need some sort of retainer model? It seems like a good safety net to have.
TJ Kearney:
Yeah. Like anything else, there are pros and cons. The trap with the downside to a retainer system is the perception, "The client owns you," at that point, right? I’ve seen where the expectation on the client's side is like, "Well, you're part of our staff now. If our staff works overtime, you better be ready to turn on, work nights and weekends for us." I would be very hesitant to fall into that trap, but that said, your company is going to be far more stable with retainers than it is without them because you can start to plan out the year.
I see this all the time, where a studio ramps up when they're busy, then all of a sudden they've got a bunch of people sitting around with nothing to put them on. I think that retainers are scary to a lot of people because they have no idea how they're structured or how to negotiate them. It starts to be a more viable option, as you become established and build a rapport with a specific client.
“The Junebugs” — Produced by TJ Kearney
Mack Garrison:
Well, that's a really good point.
I'm looking forward to having you down here in October. You’ll love my hometown, we’ll be getting y'all some barbecue.
TJ Kearney:
I'm excited, man. Thanks a lot.
Mack Garrison:
Great catching up, and enjoy the weekend, dude. I'll talk to you soon.
An Open Letter to Dash Bash Attendees
dash: from two to twelve and everything in between.
Let’s roll back the clock to 2015. The Supreme Court affirmed same-sex marriages. We found water on Mars. Australians FINALLY gained access to Netflix. And with all of the other life-changing milestones…dash was born.
It was an unseasonably cool summer evening when dash was first conceived. A few beers led to an honest conversation about motion design and the direction that co-founders, Mack Garrison and Cory Livengood, wanted to take with their lives. They had met five years prior while working at a content marketing agency in Raleigh, NC--an agency they had both just left.
Cory, a Senior Animator, is self-taught and proud of it. His background in stage and film production at North Carolina State University gave him a knack for solving problems. This, along with his easy-going and charismatic personality, makes him a great fit for a motion design company that demands critical thinking and a cool head.
Mack, a Raleigh native, is an optimist and dreamer. He found his creative direction studying at North Carolina State University’s College of Design where he fell in love with animation and motion graphics. As an Animator and Creative Director, he has been exposed to a myriad of concepts—this allows him the ability to clearly articulate direction for a wide range of clients and creatives alike.
Cory Livengood and Mack Garrison
The Bash to end all bashes.
So, what were two (recently) freelance creatives to do? Hop on a plane to NYC and attend their very first Motion Design conference, of course! These conferences highlight some of the most unique and interesting work being created within the industry, but it wasn’t the recognizable names or the incredible projects being exhibited that struck them. It was how welcoming everyone was; Big wigs of the creative world chatting it up with two “Average Joes” from Raleigh--lending advice and genuinely wanting to hear their story. The positive experiences really stuck with them. It had made an industry that had once felt so massive a little less intimidating and more familial.
Fast forward again to 2021. Mack and Cory have now surrounded themselves with a team of passionate, hardworking folks who are dedicated to sharing their creations. This October 15th will mark dash’s sixth birthday, and we’ll be celebrating in style at The Dash Bash on September 23rd and 24th. Why a Motion Design festival you may ask? The studio would not have been half as successful without the connections and wisdom gained from hangout opportunities such as F5, OFF fest, and Blend. It’s now our time to give back to the community that has given so much to us.
Offering the festival in an atypical environment is a nod to the city that we love so much. Because let’s not beat around the bush, Raleigh isn’t exactly an LA or a Chicago. What it is, however, is a perfect example of one of the many changes happening within our industry. Modern technology is beginning to break down many of the barriers of the Motion Design world. It’s no longer a requirement to live within those larger markets to make a name for yourself.
Dylan Carrow, Mack Garrison, Cory Livengood, Meg Snyder, and Meryn Hayes
Continuing on.
Our intentions for this fall’s festival are not only to take the long-overdue time to reconnect with the community that we have been isolated from this past year and a half but also to raise our group consciousness. We spoke of change. Change is good. Change is growth. Change is constant. This industry has begun to change for the better, but we would be remiss to not acknowledge why it has been made necessary in the first place.
Present-day Motion Design is a multi-directional world of possibilities. Rising students today have the unique opportunity to choose from a number of career paths: 3D motion graphics, publications, UX, branding, sometimes work that completely resists definition or categorization. So yes, this field has an incredibly diverse range of professional foci, but the industry itself has historically (and presently) not been as inclusive when it comes to who is doing the creating. Motion Design as a profession cannot survive if it doesn’t represent the audience it’s meant to target. With Black Lives Matter, the Me Too Movement, and other social justice initiatives, it’s time we self-assess our own industry to acknowledge both the good and bad happenstances. While things are steadily changing, it’s time we recognize that as a whole, Motion Design has been lacking in diversity. Particularly when it comes to leadership positions. As a result, the Dash Bash is prioritizing a diverse range of speakers and topics to be discussed. It’s time we diverge from the traditional vision of what it means to be a leader in creative. It’s time to show exactly where this industry is heading. We’re excited, we hope you all are as well. See ya’ll in September!
The full dash crew
-the dashtronauts
Takeover Tuesday with Hend and Lamiaa
Q&A with Hend Esmat and Lamiaa Diab, a design & animation directing duo.
Q&A with Hend & Lamiaa.
Read time: 10min
Madison Caprara:
Hey guys! Why don’t you take a second to give us a bit of background on yourselves and your work?
Hend & Lamiaa:
Hello! We are Hend & Lamiaa, a design and animation directing duo. We are two friends who share a great passion for telling stories through colorful visuals and quirky characters, with a strong focus on projects with a social impact. We enjoy the vast range and power of animation in tackling diverse genres, from lighthearted topics to more serious ones, and are always up for the challenge with every project we embark on! We have directed and animated short films, explainers, and TV commercials as well as designed for children’s books and TV series.
Madison Caprara:
You both are originally from Egypt, correct? What is the animation scene like there? How radically does it differ from that in Bristol?
Hend & Lamiaa:
The animation scene in Egypt has been significantly growing in the past years. More specialized studios are forming, like Samaka and Giraffics, and some educational courses are being offered too. Something relatively new to our generation. The market is more driven towards advertising and post-production work though which can be quite limiting and competitive.
The biggest and most significant difference for us is the networking aspect, and being able to easily access a wider network of studios and potential clients. So consequently, we felt that being based in Bristol opened up more opportunities and diverse projects.
However, we have worked with clients from Egypt too while being based in Bristol and are still keen to continue doing so. We really hope to bridge the gap between the animation industry in Egypt with the international market and to help in linking talents across countries. It’s a milestone that we really hope to accomplish in our future plans.
Madison Caprara:
With how new the animation industry is in Egypt, how exactly did the two of you go about getting into the business together?
Hend & Lamiaa:
Back in 2009, we went to the same university in Cairo where we both were studying Media Design and Filmmaking. At some point, we realized that we had been going to the same school but did not know each other! There was only one animation course offered during the five-year BA program and we were both immediately drawn to animation from that point. We realized we shared the same passion in terms of style and interest, so we started working together on uni projects. Eventually, we began to take up freelancing jobs together.
It first started with small gigs from friends and family. Slowly we began to grow our network. In 2016 we both wanted to apply for Masters in Animation. We applied to several universities at the same time and luckily both received full scholarships to the same uni in Bristol, which immensely helped us in continuing to pave our path together! After our graduation in 2018, we applied for Launch Space, which provided us with support in growing our business and setting up a company in Bristol.
Madison Caprara:
It seems almost fated!
How do you go about allocating project tasks between the two of you?
Hend & Lamiaa:
We usually brainstorm together whenever there’s a brief or pitch. We like juggling ideas back and forth and scribbling down rough thumbnails. Once that part is set, we start dividing the work according to the schedule we have. Our roles usually cross over each other, and only recently have we tried to divide them a bit more to make sure we are more efficient and develop as a “business”.
So after brainstorming, usually Hend handles more of the scheduling, emailing, and production side, while Lamiaa takes care of the designs and pre-production work. Once production is ready, we either divide the animation shots between us or hire more people if the project needs it. What is really nice about working together though is that we can easily shift roles! If someone feels stuck with a certain task or feels that they got bored, we change roles to break the rhythm and get the project moving.
Madison Caprara:
So, divide and conquer, I like it.
When it comes to the types of projects or work you take on, is there always a dual, “yes”? If not, what’s usually the deciding factor?
Hend & Lamiaa:
We usually discuss together before we take on any new project. We both have to agree at the end on the decision. So, it is either we both have the same opinion from the beginning or if we don’t, we discuss together until someone convinces the other. The deciding factor is almost always budget and time. We get excited about most projects very easily, and are always enthusiastic to create more!
Unfortunately being our own bosses obliges us to try to be pragmatic and make sure we make enough income. So we try to find a balance between both passion and commercial work as much as possible. We still don’t have the optimum resolution but would highly recommend the book The Freelance Manifesto by Joey Korenman for anyone struggling with that.
Madison Caprara:
For a self-ascribed indecisive, that sounds like a nightmare, to be honest.
Do you ever see yourselves expanding your staff to more than just the two of you?
Hend & Lamiaa:
We are in desperate need of growing our team. The issue is always with the budget available. So we only hire freelancers whenever it allows us to, but are looking into hiring a full-time producer as a start and then hopefully have more people joining us!
Madison Caprara:
I truly don’t know where dash would be without our Producer, Meryn Hayes. She’s a rockstar.
Congrats on your Vimeo Staff Pick Badge for Flipped, by the way! Could you give us a little rundown on where the idea stemmed from and what the creative process was like?
Hend & Lamiaa:
Thank you so much! We were so happy to receive a staff pick for this film! We made it during our MA course in Bristol, where we were asked to pitch three different ideas for a short film. One of the concepts we came up with was “What if kids and adults switched roles?” After our presentation, we found ourselves very intrigued to keep thinking about that; imagining different situations and flipping roles from daily actions that take place in almost every house around the world! Whether it be eating, going to bed, taking a shower, etc.
We spent a few months working on the storyboard and animatic, puzzling around different situations until the whole structure was formed. After that, we worked on the designs and the technical process. This was the first time we ever got to animate this amount of characters, so we wanted to make sure our technical abilities allowed us to do so as we are not traditional frame-by-frame animators. After, we spent some time testing rigs with DUIK on after effects until we reached a look we were satisfied with. You can find more information about the process here and here.
Madison Caprara:
Well, it’s such a fun piece. I love the hand-drawn animation style. It really adds to the idea of children being the main target audience.
Pivoting from there, how integral do you believe social media is to be successful in this industry? Being that I’ve managed to make a career out of it, I’m a little bias. I love hearing others’ thoughts!
Hend & Lamiaa:
Being present on social media is very crucial, especially if you are not employed full-time at a studio or company. You have to keep posting, even if it’s just a work-in-progress. It makes it easier for potential recruiters to find you. However, we are both very bad at this job! Neither one of us is used to sharing quite often, even on our personal accounts. So, we do disappear from time to time, unfortunately.
Madison Caprara:
What would be your dream project or collaboration?
Hend & Lamiaa:
We have several dream projects we would love to work on. Basically, we’re just trying to divide them as milestones and focus on them step by step. For closer milestones, we would love to keep growing our network and eventually collaborate with different studios. We learn so much from working with different people. We especially love the thrill of meeting new people and exchanging knowledge.
Another milestone is working with more film and television show departments. We would love to work on title sequences to be more specific. Saul Bass’ title sequences were one of the main reasons we got into this whole industry, so we would love to work on such a project. A bigger dream is more educationally driven. We would love to contribute in linking communities worldwide as mentioned before by making animation more accessible, whether through work, opportunities, or sharing knowledge.
Madison Caprara:
And where do you go for inspiration?
Hend & Lamiaa:
Book stores to flip through different children’s books, we’ll go outside with a notebook and just observe the world around us, of course, Pinterest, Vimeo, and Instagram are amazing sources of inspiration as well. Also, before COVID, attending networking events and screenings.
Madison Caprara:
As the world begins to feel a little closer to “normal.” Maybe normal’s not the right word, closer to how it was before the COVID pandemic struck. That being said, what does the rest of 2021 look like for you? Is there anything special we can look forward to seeing from you?
Hend & Lamiaa:
This year is all about collaboration and exploring new opportunities for us. It was a bit hard to keep up with our initial plans with all that’s happening in the world, so we are trying to focus on more remote opportunities and whatever we can accomplish with more limited budgets.
A few months back, we collaborated with different animators from around the world in creating one film - in an exquisite corpse style - where each animator created a 15-second clip playing off of the previous clip from another creator. The film should be done by the end of the summer and we are very excited to see the outcome. Now, we are working on a commissioned project until the end of August where we are also collaborating with other extremely talented animators. So we’re really looking forward to releasing the films soon!
Madison Caprara:
Well, we’re reaching the end of this Q&A session. Do you have any closing points or statements you would like to end on?
Hend & Lamiaa:
Networking is very important in our industry. Don’t be afraid to reach out to people and ask any questions you have in mind. You’d be surprised! Everyone understands the struggle of trying to make it as a freelancer in this industry, so everyone is willing to help and share their experiences very openly.
Not sure if that’s relevant, but from what we went through in the past years, we realized how important it is to keep yourself motivated to keep going. It’s very normal to have some low points during the process, it’s ok to allow yourself to feel down for a few days, but make sure to remind yourself of your passions, to stay in focus, and to keep going!
Takeover Tuesday with Matea Lo
Q&A with Matea Lo, a freelance motion designer, illustrator, and AE animator.
Q&A with Matea Lo
Read time: 5min
Madison Caprara:
Hey, Matea! Why don’t you take a second to introduce yourself?
Matea Lo:
Hi! I’m a freelance designer, illustrator, and AE animator. I’ve been working in the Motion Design industry for around five years.
Madison Caprara:
So ‘Meat,’ huh? Where did that nickname stem from if you don’t mind me asking?
Matea Lo:
I was in a group chat and my buddy was struggling to type my name. “Matea” quickly autocorrected to “Meat” and it somehow stuck!
Madison Caprara:
So funny! Love a nickname with a story.
What did your journey into the industry look like?
Matea Lo:
I studied Art and Design in college without an understanding of what motion graphics really was. My school introduced their first mograph course my senior year and I instantly fell in love.
Madison Caprara:
From an outsider’s perspective, how would you describe your style of works?
Matea Lo:
While I try to push myself to explore different styles, I would say my aesthetic is warm and painterly.
Madison Caprara:
“Warm and painterly.” I like that a lot. Perfect description!
Was there anything in particular that really helped to solidify your look?
Matea Lo:
Early on I would spend hours of my day scouring galleries on Vimeo. You naturally pick up on different techniques after consuming a lot of content. I think what solidified my illustration style was creating heaps of artwork. Everything I drew was ugly compared to the artists I admired. It was extremely disheartening, but after a lot of trial and error, atrocious color palettes, and stray photoshop layers, I was finally proud of my work. Ira Glass’s “The Gap” perfectly describes this.
Madison Caprara:
I’m pretty sure I’ve read about this topic. The difference between having good taste and doing good work, yes? A majority of professional creatives get into their industry because they have pretty superior aesthetic taste, but that doesn’t mean they will be great at translating it in the beginning.
So, design, illustration, and animation. Quite the skillset! Which would you say is your favorite medium? Why?
Matea Lo:
This might be cheating, but it’s probably illustrative motion design. I loved puzzles as a kid and I think the process of animating a static scene requires a similar form of problem-solving. Working digitally also gives you a lot of room to experiment and make mistakes.
Madison Caprara:
No wrong answers here!
Digital work is a bit more forgiving, I imagine. I have a friend who is the most amazing painter; Huge, naturalistic-styled works. More than once I’ve seen her punch a hole through her canvas for one faulty brush stroke.
Madison Caprara:
You graduated from Pratt Institute, looking back on your college experience, what was the most important lesson you have learned?
Matea Lo:
I actually got my BFA at the University of Wisconsin- Madison. Because Madison’s Art Department was fine arts-focused, there weren't a lot of resources for design students. It taught me that you have to be a self-starter to thrive in a professional creative space. Later, I sought out a motion graphics certificate from Pratt because I wanted to learn more about animation.
Madison Caprara:
My mistake!
So, you’ve worked with many high-profile clients. In your experience, what is the essential ingredient to a successful ongoing client relationship?
Mateo Lo:
It’s important to be honest in communicating how much time a task will take. Luckily I’ve worked with a lot of great producers to help mediate that process. I think an essential ingredient in any relationship is to be kind and understanding. Everyone on the team is probably stressed. Being someone who is easy to work with really goes a long way!
Madison Caprara:
Who has been your absolute favorite client to work with?
Matea Lo:
My favorite client was Athletes Unlimited. I had the opportunity to lead the design and animation of their Every Moment Counts series. From storyboards to animatic to animation, it was the smoothest process I’ve experienced. It was also really fun to listen to the athletes’ stories and bring them to life.
Madison Caprara:
…and what has been one of your most challenging assignments?
Matea Lo:
One that stands out was a piece called Living Street Art. Our team of three was tasked to animate and composite a 40 foot, 42 screen mural for Google’s Chicago office. It was a huge undertaking but extremely satisfying to experience the final product in person. It taught me a lot about rigging, compositing, and painful render times.
Madison Caprara:
I’m getting very strong Where the Wild Things Are vibes from this one. Big fan!
Now, do you approach creating client work differently than the works you produce for your own personal projects?
Matea Lo:
I try to treat my personal projects like client work. I’ll set a loose timeline for myself and various goals to hit along the way. Having a deadline to post on social media gives me a sense of accountability.
Madison Caprara:
Where do you go for inspiration? I ask this in every Takeover Tuesday interview, it may be getting a little stale, but it’s my favorite. Everyone’s answer varies.
Matea Lo:
Besides the obvious Motionographer, Pinterest, Vimeo, and Instagram, I try to push myself to consume work outside of the industry too. I’ve found inspiration from museums, film, animal videos on Reddit, and random photos I’ve saved to my phone.
Madison Caprara:
What does the rest of 2021 look like for you? It’s hard to believe, but we’re already more than halfway through the year. Is there anything special we can look forward to seeing from you?
Matea Lo:
I’m leaving my staff job of three years to freelance full-time this summer. It’s a daunting transition but I’m excited for new challenges and creative opportunities!
Madison Caprara:
A congratulation is definitely in order! Good luck with your next chapter. That’s so exciting!
Well, we’re reaching the end here, Matea. Do you have any closing advice or statements you would like to share?
Matea Lo:
Yes! I know everyone says it, but create the work you want to do to get the jobs you want! Most are not glamorous but if you can find time to make art you’re passionate about, those opportunities will come along. If you light up when you’re talking about work you’re proud of, that excitement will be contagious.
Takeover Tuesday with Tomasz Czajka
Q&A with Tomasz Czajka, a freelance Motion Designer from Poland.
Q&A with Tomasz Czajka
Read time: 5min
Madison Caprara:
Hi, Tomasz! How’re you doing?
Could you give a brief introduction to yourself and your work? How would you describe your style for the readers?
Tomasz Czajka:
Hello! I’m Tomasz, and I am a freelance Motion Designer. I’m originally from Poland and am currently living here. I don’t feel like I have a well-defined style yet, though I‘m starting to notice that geometrical stylization, intense colors, and subtle textures appeal to me most. Even so, I’d say achieving different looks in After Effects is what excites me a lot.
Madison Caprara:
Taking style out of the equation, you have a pretty wide skillset: graphic design, illustration, motion design. Do you have a favorite focus?
Tomasz Czajka:
Thanks!
Currently, I enjoy motion design the most, specifically the animation part, though I wish I had more opportunities to design style frames. For a long time, I was very hesitant about what should be my specialisation. I’ve spent endless hours playing video games, so I was almost sure that I want to pursue a career in game development. Before that, I thought that web design was a reasonable choice. The idea of becoming a Motion Designer came to me quite late but allowed me to utilize everything I’ve learned so far. Our industry feels special to me because it combines so many fields.
Madison Caprara:
Definitely brings into mind the ongoing debate of specialism vs generalism.
What did your education journey look like? How did you go about landing your first gig after graduating?
Tomasz Czajka:
I started in a little different field, which was web design. When I was a kid, I was obsessed with computers, so my uncle gave me a book about HTML. I quickly began making multiple small websites, which taught me enough to design a page for my high school. Some people noticed and asked me if I could create something for them as well. That earned me my first income from creative work and motivated me to prepare a portfolio for design school. Eventually, I got into the graphic design program at the Polish-Japanese Academy of Technology. It was a very comprehensive course, but in the final year, I focused on 3D animation. While studying, I worked part-time at a local agency as a Graphic Designer, and soon after graduation, I got my first job as a Motion Designer at Studio Pigeon.
Madison Caprara:
You have gone freelance now, however, correct? How’s the independent life been treating you? Did you experience much of a change with the pandemic? Did it play a role in that decision?
Tomasz Czajka:
When the pandemic hit I was working full-time in Stockholm as a Motion Designer at Essen International. Soon after, my wife and I decided to move back to Poland (where we own an apartment), go freelance, and wait a bit until everything stabilized. I handed over my resignation, but my boss asked me if I would be interested in working with them daily. If the pandemic brought anything good, I think it would be the fact that people are more open to the possibility of remote work. Fortunately, I’m busier than ever, still working with Essen and taking some extra projects from time to time.
Madison Caprara:
I 100% agree with that point. The accessibility to remote work is one of the positive outcomes to come from this situation.
Pivoting a little bit away from your journey, would you say that professional pressures stem more from within yourself or external factors?
Tomasz Czajka:
Definitely from within. A few times in my life, I was lucky to be in a position when I had either a steady flow of freelance work or stable full-time employment. But after some time, I always ended up looking for new challenges. I’m still curious and eager to learn, and I hope it won’t change any soon.
Madison Caprara:
I’m not sure how often you work with U.S.-based clients, but how do they differ from those in Poland?
Tomasz Czajka:
To me, the significant differences are in communication and finances. Not even within budgets (which are definitely lower here), but I think that people in the U.S. are more comfortable talking about money. Whenever I was talking about picking up a larger project, I felt safer to ask for partial up-front or split payment, no matter whether it was direct client work or through the studio. When I was asking about the same things here, it could even mean the end of the conversation.
Madison Caprara:
Wow!
Other than the comfortability with talking money, are there any Polish practices that you wish American studios would adopt, or vice-versa?
Tomasz Czajka:
I’ve heard people in the industry saying that our Art Directors, or Eastern European ones in general, are straight to the point, addressing only the issues and rarely mentioning positive parts of the project. I can confirm that, and I think that when the deadlines are super tight, this approach can help to limit the vagueness and number of revisions. On the other hand, it can feel draining and confusing long-term. Ultimately making people insecure about their work. It would be great to add some American positiveness to the mix.
Madison Caprara:
What has been a career highlight for you?
Tomasz Czajka:
I’d say it was a period right after I released my most recent reel. It gathered very positive feedback and allowed me to work with amazing people. I had the opportunity to work with Moth Studio on the NASAxGoogle project, which is one of my favorites so far!
Madison Caprara:
Amazing!
When working on personal projects, where do you tend to go for inspiration?
Tomasz Czajka:
I go to popular places like Motionographer, Motion Gallery on Behance, or curated channels like Wine After Coffee for motion-related inspirations. Also, Motion Design Twitter is a fantastic community. Extremely talented people share their tricks and tips every day, fueling conversations that often lead to surprising solutions.
When I start a design project, I love to start by browsing through my books and albums. Recently I’m fascinated by graphic design and typography in Eastern Block from the Cold War era.
Madison Caprara:
I can definitely attest to the Motion Design Twitter community. It’s a bit addicting, really!
Before we wrap up, are there any closing advice or statements you would like to share?
Tomasz Czajka:
As a person who struggled a lot with picking up a career path, I could only say that all the experience and knowledge you’ll gather on your way will probably benefit you in the future. Saying ‘yes’ to opportunities can take you to unexpected places, even if you think at first that you are not qualified enough.
Takeover Tuesday with Tatiana Shchekina
Q&A with Tatiana Shchekina, a motion designer, animator, 3D artist, and storyteller with more than 10 years of experience.
Q&A with Tatiana Shchekina
Read time: 10min
Madison Caprara:
Hi Tatiana! Really excited to learn more about you. Could you give us a little overview of yourself and your work?
Tatiana Shchekina:
Hi Madison, I’m very excited about this takeover! I’m a Motion Designer and Art Director originally from a Russian city in the far east with an unpronounceable name. Over the past 15 years, I was fortunate to work as a Motion Designer in television, advertising agencies, as well as in-house at big companies like Microsoft, AT&T, and Amazon. I’m also constantly working on personal projects. I’ve been incredibly lucky to live in places like Seattle and New York City.
Madison Caprara:
So, how did you initially get into the industry?
Tatiana Shchekina:
I studied Architecture and Interior Design in college and I was making a lot of 3D stuff for my student projects. I became fascinated with Cinema 4D and how powerful and intuitive it was. Around 2005 or 2006, there were very few tutorials or resources online. I wanted to find a mentor who could help me learn C4D properly. By total accident, I found out that our local TV Network had a bunch of designers working in Cinema 4D.
I went there, showed them my ugly C4D renders, and asked if I could help with anything. They let me hang out at the office and I ended up picking up a lot of design and animation basics there. Since I was there almost every day, they would have me do small tasks, and eventually ended up hiring me as a full-time Designer while I was still in school. Only later I found out that I was actually working as a Motion Designer!
Madison Caprara:
From Architecture to Motion Design. That’s incredible!
You relocated pretty far. How difficult was it for you to go from working Motion Design in Russia to the U.S.? Were there any significant challenges?
Tatiana Shchekina:
It was relatively easy for me because I didn’t need a visa sponsorship. I am a lucky Diversity Visa Program winner. The program gives an opportunity to people from all over the world to get a Green Card by randomly selecting them. After winning, I could pick anywhere in the U.S. to live and to work. I picked Seattle as my destination, it wasn’t too big or too small, and had a decent amount of Motion Design jobs. Also, the winter is pretty mild there!
Fortunately for me, American Motion Designers use the same software as Russian Motion Designers (Ae and C4D). The work process is also very similar - from brainstorming to animation. I had eight years of experience working as a Designer in television by the time I moved to the United States, and I was lucky to find a full-time job in an advertising agency just a month after my move. One big challenge I had that is not connected with Motion Design is driving. In Russia, you don’t have to have a car if you live in the city. Most places are accessible by public transport. So I never learned how to drive before I got to the U.S. To get to my first job here in Seattle I had to get up at 5 AM and take three buses. But I was happy to do it because I was still able to do Motion Design on the other side of the world. It seemed like a miracle at the time.
Madison Caprara:
I’ve lived here my entire life and still can’t parallel park, so I 100% feel you.
What is your favorite part of the animation process: pre-production, production, or post-production? Why?
Tatiana Shchekina:
I enjoy the production process the most. When I have a fully defined idea and I know what I am trying to say, I have a lot of fun with the process of experimenting with different approaches and techniques.
Madison Caprara:
In your opinion, Is there any radical distinction between an Animator and a Director?
Tatiana Shchekina:
I usually direct and animate most of the things I work on, and I think of myself as an Art Director. Most creative people want to have input and direction within their work. Once you get more and more experience animating, it's a very organic process to become a director as well.
Madison Caprara:
Do you ever allow yourself to be picky when agreeing to work on a project? What is it that you look for? What boxes need to be checked for you to say, “yes?”
People usually have different answers to this question, and I love the variety I get when it’s asked.
Tatiana Shchekina:
I’m always excited to work with people who are very passionate about Motion Design. I look for opportunities, where I can work with talented people and learn from them, or projects where I can take on new challenges and grow as an artist. I’m also a huge metalhead, and if Metallica ever reaches out with any project, I will absolutely say “Yes!” One time I met a Graphic Designer who worked with them on one of their tour posters, and the only direction that they gave him was to have skulls in that poster. I think that’s the most awesome brief ever!
Madison Caprara:
Going from the ‘potential future’ to the ‘now’, what excites you most about the work you’re doing? Is there anything in particular we should be looking out for?
Tatiana Shchekina:
I love working on personal projects whenever I have a chance. Working on my own stuff gives me complete creative freedom and helps to push the boundaries of my work, and to try out new things. I’m currently working on my new showreel. I want to update an opening for it, and it’s actually one of the hardest things to do because creating a brand for yourself is not easy. I’m very excited about this process though. I’m also working on a few other short animations that I can hopefully publish soon. At my full-time gig at Amazon, I’m excited to drive and define new visual styles and build out a creative team.
Madison Caprara:
Sweet! Well, we will definitely be on the lookout.
Who would you cite as your artistic influence(s)?
Tatiana Shchekina:
There are so many! From Rene Magritte, Frida Kahlo, Pieter Bruegel the Elder, and Antoni Gaudi to Nidia Dias, Peter Tarka, Luke Doyle, Johana Kroft, Handel Eugene, Jonas Mosesson, Justin Lawes, César Pelizer...This list is really really long! My mom used to collect art magazines and postcards with different artworks from all over the world. I loved going through her collection as a kid, and it definitely influenced me as an artist.
Madison Caprara:
That’s quite the roster!
Right now, how would you define success in your life? And in the future, how would you determine if you’ve reached that success point?
Tatiana Shchekina:
For me, success is the balance in life. The balance is when I can work on something that I’m very passionate about, keep growing as an artist, and also have enough time to enjoy life and to live in different places around the world.
Madison Caprara:
I would have to agree.
So, I know we went over what individuals inspire you, but which hubs or communities do you go to for inspiration?
Tatiana Shchekina:
I get inspiration from lots of different things. I really enjoy traveling and getting inspired by architecture and art. I loved living in Manhattan because I was always surrounded by beautiful buildings and could go to a new museum every week. I tried to walk around every day during lunch or after work to discover new parts of New York City.
Different Motion Design conferences are incredibly inspiring too! You go there and meet a lot of talented designers, listen to talks from the best people in the industry. I was full of new ideas after Blend 2019. It was an amazing event! I’m also keeping up with motion design trends on Instagram, Behance, and Pinterest. There is always so much new work being made!
Madison Caprara:
BIG Behance fan right here!
Well, we’re wrapping it up, Tatiana. Do you have any closing advice or statements you would like to share?
Daniel Moreno Cordero:
Being a Motion Designer is not easy. People that get into Motion Design need to really love the process and be willing to constantly learn and try things out. I have been a Motion Designer for a long time, I’m still learning something new every day and I will never stop learning. The consistent process of growing as an artist can be hard. Don’t let self-doubt and procrastination stop you from making art. Just keep going, and you will see the result!
Takeover Tuesday with Daniel Moreno Cordero
Q&A with Daniel Moreno Cordero, a designer and animator from Cadiz, Spain who now lives and works in Toronto.
Q&A with Daniel Moreno Cordero
Read time: 10min
Madison Caprara:
Hi, Daniel! To begin, could you give us a brief bio of who you are and how you got into the industry, please?
Daniel Moreno Cordero:
My full name is Daniel Moreno Cordero. As you may know, Spaniards have two last names that are sometimes pretty long, although mine’s not that bad! Forty years ago, I was born in the south of Spain in a city called Cadiz. I’m old, I know. It’s a very interesting place. Cadiz is surrounded by white sand beaches and it’s one of the oldest cities in Western Europe (it was founded 3000 years ago). You can find Phoenician, Greek, Roman, and Moorish ruins and art everywhere because of that.
Being surrounded by history, I started paying attention to art very early on. I believe I was around eight years old. I would be constantly drawing everywhere, it’s all I would do in high school. My teachers were a bit sick of it as a matter of fact! I hoped to become a comic book author. Motion Design wasn’t a thing yet, but I was very interested in digital painting and Photoshop. So, I would draw on the computer from very early on, in fact, I even got a digital pen in the late 90s (they weren’t as advanced as a Wacom today, unfortunately). I was also very interested in movies and would make short films with friends. In the beginning, I would edit directly on tape which was rather hard and not very precise.
Two years before University, I joined a famous local painter’s studio. He tutored me in classic art and oil painting. It was great and I learned a lot about the technique. Despite all my efforts and hard work, I failed my exam to access art school. It was a practical exam where we had to draw a greek classical statue live, with hundreds of other applicants. I had been training for a couple of years and was pretty confident. However, I later learned that there was this kind of “mafia” in the University at the time where the only alumni getting in were people attending private tutoring from the same teachers in the University. So anyway, I went on to study History of Art at the University of Granada. I loved the degree and even considered becoming a history of art investigator or professor. But then a design school opened its doors in Granada and I decided to attend after completing my program.
Daniel Moreno Cordero:
So there I went and pursued a three-year degree in Design and Multimedia Production. It was an amazing experience and I learned all the basics of design, color, techniques, etc. In my last year there I discovered the world of Motion Design and it was love at first sight. It had everything I cherished: illustration, animation, film, design, art...it was just perfect for me. So I decided to become a Motion Designer.
Madison Caprara:
Wow! That’s quite a journey to get to where you are today.
For readers who may not be familiar, how would you describe your current style?
Daniel Moreno Cordero:
That’s a good question! I think I would describe my style as inspired by Pablo Picasso’s ideas while applied to Motion. Picasso is my favorite artist. I try to pursue a child-like aesthetic; spontaneous and fun. I enjoy playing with the abstract to some degree and thinking about the symbolism of the varying shapes and forms, even if that symbolism is not apparent all the time. I focus a lot on color and how it affects the human psyche. I like being bold with the tones, so the pieces end up being cheerful and hopeful. I love classic art, but also African and Pre-Hispanic periods. Early 20th-century vanguard (Dadaism, Cubism, Expressionists, Abstracts, Concept Art, Pop-Art, etc.), and 60’s illustrations and designs as well. I would say my style is a mix of all of that in some way.
Madison Caprara:
That’s probably one of the most intensive descriptions I’ve gotten to date! Gustav Klimt is one of my favorite artists, so we share that affinity for figurative painters.
So you spoke a bit about your hometown of Cadiz, Spain. I see that you are currently living in Toronto, though! What was that relocation like for you? Did work play any sort of role in the move?
Daniel Moreno Cordero:
In the late 2000s, the Motion Design scene in Southern Spain was minuscule. Not a lot of people were working in it and there was not a lot of interest from clients either. After some time working as a design teacher and hustling on the side with some clients making Motion pieces here and there, I decided it was time to go somewhere else, somewhere bigger where I could work in a studio. My wife and I packed our bags with our two daughters and we moved to Bogota, Colombia in 2012. There, I joined a very nice studio called LaPost. It was such a great experience. I met wonderful people there and learned so much!
After a year working in-house, I decided to go freelance full-time in the last months of 2013. At that time, it was a bit harder to work with people overseas. Luckily, I got quite a lot of clients from the U.S., so I was able to be constantly working on projects I liked from home. From there, it grew, I even got two Vimeo Staff Picks with two animations I did for Dreambear studio in NYC. In 2015, Polyester Studio in Toronto contacted me for a couple of projects. The projects were crazy in regard to the amount of work and time they gave me, but they were also super interesting and I enjoyed working with them a lot. Because it went so well, they offered me full-time employment. In the beginning, I worked from Colombia. Eventually, they were kind enough to aid with all of the paperwork so that I was able to go to Toronto to work in-house. I first came in April 2016 to check out the city and stayed for a month. I fell in love with the place instantly. In October 2016 my family and I packed our bags again. We left everything behind for a second time and moved over to Canada. It has been a great experience so far and we love the country. In 2020 I decided to go full-time freelance again, and here I am!
Madison Caprara:
You have quite the roster, what has been your most memorable piece or experience thus far?
Daniel Moreno Cordero:
My favorite animation is my personal project Art is Theft. It’s a very dear piece to me. Some others I really enjoyed were Line Meets Shape, an abstract piece I co-directed for Polyester Studio, visuals I did for reggaeton singer Bad Bunny, an animation I directed for Yoplait, another mixed media project I did talking about the American Dollar, and a very beautiful explainer I designed and helped animate for Polyester Studio.
However, I have to say my absolute favorites are two pieces I’m working on right now that will come out later in the year. One is for Google, talking about a trans actress called Michaella Jay. Another one is my new personal project called Everybody Loves Salsa. That last one may be my all-time favorite project piece. It’s my most personal and the one I’ve had the most fun with!
Madison Caprara:
Speaking of, your film, Art is Theft, won the Toronto Independent Film Festival award for best animated short in 2017. Congratulations! What can you tell us about your creative process for it? How did you come up with the concept and where did it go from that initial conception?
Daniel Moreno Cordero:
Thank you! That was such a rewarding experience! I was able to go to the festival with my family and see the animation on the big screen. It felt great! The idea for this project came from a presentation I did in 2011 when I was still a design teacher in Granada. I gave an hour-long presentation titled Art Is Theft that spoke about how Pablo Picasso took from so many sources to create his Magnus Opus, Les Demoiselles d’Avignon, in 1907. This was the first art piece in the style of Cubism ever and the process behind it is just fascinating and super intense. Loving this concept so much, I always considered how important the use of references in projects was. I wanted to talk about the difference between simply copying something and stealing the soul of a style, which has to do more with understanding what that style is about and applying it in your own way. Since I had spent five years studying History of Art at the university, I thought it was an important part of my life and wanted to speak about something related to it.
So, being a history of art nerd, I looked for several quotes from different artists throughout history about art and creation. I put all of them together and edited them so it would make sense as a script. After that, I experimented with the visuals and I came out with the style you can see now on that piece. I talk a lot about the development of the visual style here. The sound part was also super interesting. I really wanted the narrator to sound old and experienced, as if Picasso himself was the one speaking, so I looked for a voice talent that would be older than you would usually find in a Motion Design piece. I think it sounds wonderful. The cherry on top was the amazing sound designer. Ambrose Yu was so kind.
Global Dollar | Daniel Moreno Cordero
Madison Caprara:
Well, it’s a beautiful piece. Before even knowing the background, I could see Picasso’s influence.
Having spent some time in the education world, what’s one piece of advice that you would give to current students?
Daniel Moreno Cordero:
First, don’t be intimidated by all of the great work that is being produced at the moment. I know it can be overwhelming to scroll through Instagram and see masterpiece after masterpiece, but this is actually good! It means the Motion Design industry has come a long way in the last 10 years, there’s an overflow of talent and excitement everywhere. Learn from that, but don’t copy or “steal,” simply get inspired by what you see.
I would advise looking for references outside of the Motion world as well. Sometimes it can be a bit circular, you see the same elements over and over. Go to the classic and modern art influences. There is so much to discover and see and those artists went through the same phases Motion Design is going through now. Get inspiration from your hobbies, the world around you, museums, music...you’ll have more fun and it will be more rewarding and thought-provoking. Also, don’t hesitate to contact your favorite artists and animators. They’re usually pretty cool and will be more than happy to give you advice, wisdom, and kind words. At least, that’s my experience!
Another one. If you go to a studio as a newbie, learn as much as you can from the senior animators there. Don’t try to be a smart ass. The experience they can give is going to be invaluable for you.
Madison Caprara:
In my opinion, self-growth should never end. No matter how talented or successful you are. Do you have any career goals or skills you would still like to achieve?
Daniel Moreno Cordero:
I’m starting to direct more now, and I really enjoy that. Coordinating a large team is challenging but I find it super rewarding and it allows you the opportunity to learn from the team. This is something I’m focusing more on little by little. Also, I am trying to be more selective about the projects I work on. It’s something I struggle with because I fear I might run out of work, even though I haven’t stopped since 2012! I guess it’s the human condition of survival. So that’s something I have to learn to manage better and trust more in myself. I am really looking forward to developing more personal projects, one of them is on the way later on this year (fingers crossed)!
Madison Caprara:
We’ll keep an eye out for it!
How do you believe the industry has changed since you first started your career?
Daniel Moreno Cordero:
Oh boy, it has changed so much! My first Motion Design work with a client began in 2009, so over the last 12 years, things have really evolved. I would say there’s more interest in Animation than there was before. There are more interesting projects and more opportunities. More artists are making incredible work as well, everyone raises the bar so much. Back in the day, speaking as the old man I am now, if you knew how to use After Effects you were pretty much set. Now you have to be a good ARTIST. It’s not only the programs but also the technique and skill behind them.
There are a lot of studios now with top-quality work, so it’s easier to get in with them and make really good pieces with a talented team. Ten years ago, there were only a handful of studios that were genuinely above the rest making the top work. So, more opportunities all around I would say. It’s more demanding though. Now you have to know your design and art essentials better and you have to push yourself a lot. Motion Designers learn more and more programs and techniques now (2d, 3d, vector style, what have you). So definitely more demanding!
Madison Caprara:
Where do you go for inspiration?
Yoplait OUI | Daniel Moreno Cordero
Daniel Moreno Cordero:
Well, Wine After Coffee, Instagram, and Motionographer are big ones for sure. But I try to go to other places that are not related to the motion industry. Museums are a big part of me. I miss them so much with this pandemic! Also, traveling once we can do that again. It’s going to boost your views and inspiration a lot more than simply scrolling Instagram, that’s for sure. I have learned the most from the places, cities, and countries I have visited, and the people I have met there!
Madison Caprara:
Well, awesome, Daniel! This has been a great chat, but we’re going to start wrapping up. Do you have any closing advice or statements you would like to share with our readers?
Daniel Moreno Cordero:
Motion Design is very demanding mentally. I sometimes try to rush and find myself depressed because I’m not doing top-quality work all the time. But we are here for a life-long path (hopefully), so there is time for everything. Keep that in mind. Take things easy. Enjoy the ride and the animations and designs will come out better and in a more rewarding way. Sometimes, you see so many great pieces on social media that you feel as if you are missing out or that you are not working or creating great pieces fast enough. Try to manage that. Keep in mind this is a marathon, not a sprint.
Learn from the history of art. You would be surprised by how similar the stages and shifts in styles we are going through right now are to those the artists from the first half of the 20th century went through. You can learn a lot from it and potentially be ahead of the game. Also, sometimes this industry is too focused on North American and Northern European culture. That’s normal because most of the larger studios are in those areas, but if you go to different cultures, Asian, African, and South American for example, you will find a lot more inspiration and different ways of thinking and approaching your art. Try to look around a bit more. Not everything has to be in the Swiss-style design. There’re more valid ways of creating art and design outside of that mentality.
Industry Perspectives: The Importance of Hiring for Diversity with Bhakti Patel
Mack Garrison and Meryn Hayes sat down with Bhakti Patel to speak on her experiences. Bhakti is a talented Art Director and 3D Motion Designer. She has worked with over a dozen studios including Imaginary Forces, Sarofsky, Cause + Effect, Perception NYC, and Current Studios.
Q&A with Bhakti Patel
Read time: 20min
“when you hire somebody and consider their diverse background, you're considering that they can tell stories in a very different way, and that's what we are at the end of the day. storytellers.”
Mack Garrison:
We appreciate you hopping on the call with us. This is Mack Garrison. I'm one of the founders of dash, we've also got Meryn Hayes, one of our producers here as well. First off, do you want to give us a bit of background? How did you discover motion design?
Bhakti Patel:
So, when I was in school, I initially was going the graphic design route. I found it a bit limiting. You can't go beyond a page or a billboard, at least that was my understanding at the time. I started to look into motion design, and a lot of that was discovered through finding a couple of studios like Imaginary Forces, Sarofsky, Elastic, and just looking at their body of work. I thought it was way more interesting. It also included graphic design, so your options become limitless. That's how I started to get interested. So, I ended up studying 3D animation. On the side, I would teach myself Cinema 4D because we were learning 3Ds Max in school.
Mack Garrison:
Oh, cool.
Bhakti Patel:
Yeah. Whatever I learned how to do in 3ds Max in the day, I'd go home and try to do it in C4D. AfterEffects and stuff were already things I'd been playing around with back in high school, but never really went far into. I started to get a little bit more into that, making little projects for myself. By junior year, I landed an internship at Sarofsky for the summer. Sarofsky - which is based in Chicago - had become a big thing because they had just finished the “Captain America: Winter Soldier” titles. Everybody in my class thought I was nuts to turn down an internship at Nickelodeon for a studio they didn't know about. But my biggest thing was that I wanted to work somewhere I would have the opportunity to work on bigger projects early on, in comparison to just a couple of keyframes at a huge studio. Also, Nickelodeon is more story-based, TV-based, while Sarofsky was more motion design-based.
The moment that I realized I was going to go full-on into motion design and away from TV and film, was when I went to SIGGRAPH as a student volunteer. I met a guy who told me a story about how he worked on Lord of the Rings. He was a crowd simulation artist, who had worked on this massive scene. He had worked on the scene for five months which is insane. I was like, "I'm so sorry, but I don't remember the scene," and he was like, "oh, it got cut." And, that was it. I did not want to go into film. The fact that you could work on something for so long and it could get cut. What I wanted to do was work on a lot of things, really quickly. Just constantly be experimenting, trying something new. Motion design was the realm to do that. So that was my big attraction towards the industry.
Mack Garrison:
That's so cool. It's one of the reasons that I got into it as well. I'm so ADD, with graphic design being a little limiting, and how static it is, I felt the same way. I was getting bored of my compositions, so it was like animation, motion, graphics. When we make something, I'll just animate it away. I'll start on something new. I love how quickly we move and hop around.
Do you think that your initial graphic design education helped shape the motion side when you were self-teaching with the Cinema 4D? I know we're in an interesting time right now where there's a lot of online classes. There are more tutorials, it’s more self-taught. Is there validation in getting some prerequisites of design fundamentals before getting into that stuff, or do you think it's easier now more than ever?
Bhakti Patel:
It depends on what you want to do with your career. If you want to grow into a creative director, art director, or motion designer, you need to be all those things. You have to have that fundamental background. If you just want to focus on animating, such as a keyframe movie, or taking somebody else's design and animating that, then I think you can get away with only focusing on that part. It depends on how you want to shape your career, but there's nothing wrong with going either way. It really depends on what you want for yourself.
Meryn Hayes:
Looking at all of the amazing work in your reel and on your website, how do you get connected to get a job, say on Black Panther? Maybe their goal isn't to get on a Marvel movie title, but they have a dream client or project. What's your advice on how to set your goal on something like that?
Bhakti Patel:
My first dream was to get into Imaginary Forces. When I was in college, around senior year, I had landed my job after graduation with Sarofsky as a junior designer for three months. A lot of my peers hadn't, they didn't have the connections. I was part of the animation department representation, so I had connections through the Career Development office. I asked them if I could take 10 students with me to New York for two days during our spring break. We could just go tour around a bunch of studios and make connections that way.
So, I set up one-hour sessions at a few studios; BUCK, Imaginary Forces, Hornet. As I was leaving Imaginary Forces, I asked Avan, "Hey, I love your guys' work. It's a huge inspiration for my thesis film. Do you mind if I send you guys a link once it's completed?" They said yes. From that thesis film, I ended up landing a junior designer position with them for the fall. So, after I'd done Sarofsky in Chicago, I went
Bhakti Patel:
Honestly, it's about the little things. For example, not being so in their face; being kind and respectful of their time. When I got to Imaginary Forces, it was me with a couple of interns, and there were certain things...little tasks that most people just didn’t want to do. I went the extra mile and that was enough to get noticed. Every job that I've had, I haven't applied for, which is crazy. I was always recommended.
When I was at Pepsi, it was a friend of a director at Imaginary Forces that connected me. Perception saw an article from the TV show titles that I worked on for Vinyl. At Facebook, I worked under Audrey Davis, who was this amazing director at The Mill, she was also at Imaginary Forces. We never worked directly together, but she saw the working relationship I had with Alan Williams and decided to take me with her. I've just been lucky that people have been pulling me around in this way. It's all about building really good, strong relationships and you end up getting recommended, or people will pull you along.
Meryn Hayes:
That’s amazing, it points to how the motion community is. It's very large in some ways, but also very small in others. It’s about making valuable connections, to your point, not getting in people's faces, but being genuine. It's also a right place, right time kind of thing. You happen to email somebody who thinks of you for a project.
Mack Garrison:
It just made me think of one interesting tidbit that I took away from that. Bhakti, speaking on that early hustle; reaching out, making connections, there's some hesitation when you're younger. That rejection or thinking you're bothering someone by asking them, "Hey, would you take a look at this," pushes you into not reaching out. I know myself, you, and Meryn too, we were all those young people first coming out, not knowing what we were doing. So, I'm always happy to help and reach out. It sounds like the advice you're saying is, make connections when you're first getting going. You have to be talented to get the work of course, but getting your foot in the door comes with meeting the right people and having people know who you are.
Super Bowl 51 , Halftime Show — Animation by Bhakti Patel.
Bhakti Patel:
Definitely, and honestly I'm a complete introvert. It’s funny how things have worked out. But just putting yourself out there. It never hurts to step out of the box a little.
Mack Garrison:
How did you break that despite feeling uncomfortable? I'm sure there will be a lot of introverts who are reading through this blog post. Were there any steps or processes when you were doing all that stuff early on, coming out of school?
Bhakti Patel:
There was a little bit of extra drive to land somewhere, it was partially the fear of not landing a job. When you're early on, the struggles are tougher. I mean, in my first few years, I was working two to three freelance jobs at a time. You work and try a lot harder because there's that fear of the next one not coming. Everybody always tells you there's going to be a lull, that month that nothing comes. That used to scare the hell out of me. So I'd be like, "Okay, just in case, I'll take two this month." Then somewhere along the line, I realized I had just worked the whole year, two jobs, without ever taking time off. I desperately needed to slow down.
That's why I started going full-time, as an opportunity to force myself to take vacations and breaks. I think our generation has a little bit of that fear that’s built into us, given how we grew up with the economy, with student loans, and everything. It pushes us harder to get out of our comfort zones.
Mack Garrison:
I've been there myself, particularly before we started to dash. I was freelancing some and had that same issue where I was taking on more work. I didn't know where it was going to come from next. The same goes for the studio. When stuff comes in, we try to take on as much as we can.
I'll transition us a little bit back to what you were doing and then where you're going. You've had so much experience working on a variety of projects. I'm looking at your website, everything from Fox IDs, to Black Panther, to Vinyl. I know as you progressed in your career, you've probably been able to be more selective with the work that you take on. Looking back from when you first got into the field, are there certain types of projects that you like to do more than others? Have you found that you've become more niche in what you try to take on? Or, are you still at a point where you like to experiment and try new endeavors given they sound interesting and it's the right group of people to be working with?
“if you have the core skills and you know how to adapt to any medium, people pay attention.”
Bhakti Patel:
It's more of the latter. I like to be able to experiment, play around, and try new things. Anything that's piqued my interest will get some attention for sure. I like projects that have something I've never done before. When I was working on the American Horror Story teasers with Kenny Kegley, he asked me, "Have you ever animated a snake before?" I hadn’t but I promised I would figure it out.
If you have the core skills and you know how to adapt to any medium, people pay attention. When I was at Pepsi, I was doing global brand experience; the Super Bowl Halftime shows, social media campaigns, UEFA Champions League Opening Ceremony. Had I done anything even related to brand experience before? No. Not in the slightest, but they took a chance on me simply because the fundamentals were there. If you're honest about it, if you're telling them, "Hey, I know how to learn quickly," they'll give you a better chance than if you were just to walk in and be like, "I know everything, I can solve all your problems."
Mack Garrison:
I think that's so cool. As creators at heart, we always want to try something new and push our boundaries, but there's this fear that you're going to let someone down, or that you don't know fully how to do something. That reservation, unfortunately, will pull some creatives back from trying a project that’s in their wheelhouse. I think it's really good to echo your sentiment. Don't be cocky that you already know it, but be confident in your skillset and what you can learn.
Bhakti Patel:
You don't ever want to be confident in your ability to know everything, but your ability to learn. That's a good way to think about it. One is ego and one is a student mindset.
Black Panther — Design and Animation by Bhakti Patel
Meryn Hayes:
Knowing that you might not know everything when you're going into a job or project, and there may be a tight timeline, how do you practically set yourself up for success so that you don't over-commit and end up needing help? How do you balance not overpromising and under-delivering on something that you've never tried before?
Bhakti Patel:
There are some things I know for sure I can never learn. I won't try that stuff. For example, I can't do the 2D illustrative style. I know my limit, that's not my wheelhouse. But the things I know I could learn, for instance, there was a project that they wanted me to work on in Maya. I'm not a Maya artist, but it was pretty simple. It was being able to have that producer mindset. Thinking about how you're going to structure out, problem-solving, breaking it down into, “okay, I just need to learn how to model and texture.” I will watch one tutorial on modeling and another one on texturing or I will figure out how to model in C4D and bring it into Maya so that I can texture in there the way that they want it, so I can at least deliver the file that way.
It's trying to be more thoughtful in what you do and how you do it, rather than diving straight in. You don’t want to get knee-deep into something, and then you realize, "Oh, wait, wait, wait. I could have made this whole thing a lot more simple for myself." Having that producer mindset makes a huge difference. Another thing, realizing that you do have a motion community available to you. There's a tutorial on everything; GreyScaleGorilla, School of Motion, YouTube. There are a million resources that you can use. Being smart about knowing all these resources available to you early on, makes a big difference.
Mack Garrison:
That's fantastic. You're still bringing value to the table, even if it isn't with you; by your network and people you know. To your point, studios want to work with proactive people. Talking about just how small the industry is, and how important reputation is, it's crazy to me how everyone is connected to someone you know. Everyone is going to know someone. So to your point, work hard on every project, put in your best effort, don't ever throw in the towel on something just because you're not feeling it, because it gets around.
Bhakti Patel:
Definitely, and everyone hits a project or two where their reputation takes a little bit of a hit because either something personal came up or they made a stupid mistake. I know early on I got burnt out and I didn't give a project 100%. At that point, first, know that everybody messes up to some degree. Second, make sure you do something to make it right because it could stick with you. It could be a problem in the future. I learned early on that reputation sticks.
Mack Garrison:
One thing Meryn and I have been talking about is how male-oriented the industry is. It's refreshing to see this resurgence of more prominent female artists, designers, and animators that are pushing their way up to the echelons; to very elite levels, breaking through what traditionally had this glass ceiling. Have you run into any diversity in your career path when trying to grow? Any recommendations for other women and minorities in the industry? What can they do to position themselves in the best way possible as they move into the world?
“don't be cocky that you already know it, but be confident in your skillset and what you can learn.”
Bhakti Patel:
I did this talk on hiring for diversity, it's more so just talking about where you could take it, and what the benefit is of hiring for diversity. Have you guys noticed that everybody's telling the same stories, and all the work is becoming similar?
Everybody follows the same artists. They keep copying the same words; telling the same stories over and over again. The way to fix that is by hiring for diversity. If you have artists, designers, and creators on your team who think differently - they were raised differently, they grew up with a different culture, they have a female perspective instead of a male perspective - it can completely change how you do business. It can change how you create work, the kind of work you create, and could ultimately end up being better for you and the company in the long run. I don't think people realize that diversity is an asset. It's more than just a check box, you know?
Mack Garrison:
Right!
Bhakti Patel:
When you hire somebody and consider their diverse background, you're considering that they can tell stories in a very different way, and that's what we are at the end of the day. Storytellers.
“you don't ever want to be confident in your ability to know everything, but your ability to learn...one is ego and one is a student mindset.”
Mack Garrison:
It's a great conversation to have. I feel very lucky that, at dash, we're still in such a small studio. There's a lot of input from our entire staff. It's not just the executives or the leadership team making decisions on who to hire, it's everyone involved talking through it while being transparent. But you start thinking of bigger studios and agencies, all of a sudden, it's still a very select few that end up making the decisions about who to hire and why they're hiring. Would you give any advice, if there was a hiring director out there, reading this or listening to this? What are some things that people should be doing to be more proactive about diversity so it is not just a checkbox? How can they be proactive when bringing in that other side of design?
Bhakti Patel:
First is understanding what I just mentioned. Why is it important to hire with diversity in mind? The second is proactively reaching out to groups. There is Panimation, which is full of women of diverse backgrounds as well. There's a Facebook group, but they also have a website with a lot of different portfolios. Talk to your existing employees. Ask, "Hey, we would like to bring in more diverse thought into this company, do you have recommendations?" It's not necessarily about giving preference to female artists over male artists or anything of that sort, but leveling the playing field. There are so many extra steps that we have to take to just get a seat at the table, so it's making sure that we at least have a chance to get our foot in the door. That's what hiring for diversity looks like.
Mack Garrison:
That's great, Bhakti. And that's the proactive nature of what you were alluding to as well. Companies have to be active. They can't be passive when it comes to that.
Disneyland Shanghai, Pepsi — Bhakti Patel.
Bhakti Patel:
Also, it’s easy for there to be a bit of a bros club, at certain places. The people that you get along with the most are those you tend to recommend and hire. So if hiring managers get along with a lot of different male artists or male designers, they're more likely to only recommend men. They have something in common with them. Because of that, the entire culture of the motion design industry has become a bit of a bro's club. Instead of saying "Oh, will they fit into our culture," i.e. bro's club, we need more of, "Does our culture need to change, and will this person help round it out?" That's something that doesn't always get asked.
Meryn Hayes:
Yeah, this is a hard question to pose. It’s not just for you to figure out, but what are some practical ways that studios and freelancers - male or female - can take to chip away at that bro culture? As Mack mentioned, it's something that we're aware of. We want to make sure that we’re looking for a diverse group of people when we are hiring and not just, "Oh, we know so and so who might be someone that we know," it might be another white male. What do you think about how we as an industry can start to reshape that culture?
Bhakti Patel:
A lot of women tend to only get hired for junior positions. Then somehow, they disappear when it gets to the director level. They all get stopped somewhere. I know so many more female designers and artists that get to an intern level, and then that’s it for them. But a lot of their male counterparts end up leveling up. Even just thinking about proactively being invested in their careers makes a huge difference. Talk to them about how they can progress to an animator, art director, or creative director. Make sure that there aren't just women in the lower part of your company, but also in the more executive positions as well. That makes a huge difference. Especially if they can see that they can get to a creative director level. The company values; that thought and that leadership, make a huge difference. Making sure that there's some sort of opportunity or possibility for a mentorship.
Meryn Hayes:
Mentorship is huge. You don't know what's attainable in your career until you see someone else doing it. Being paired with one or trying to find someone that would be in a role that you would want, trying to learn from them and feed off of what they've done, that's so important. Our community is so welcoming and inviting, I know so many people who would be happy to reach out, give advice, and share their experiences just to help set the groundwork for other people; other minorities, or for women.
Mack Garrison:
It's systematic too. If you have these bro cultures, you foster this industry that's filled with white males. Then, all the bonds that form and mentorships created are catered for white men. The folks that get left behind are the women or minorities who are trying to move up to those leadership positions. They don't have the same opportunities that their peers do, and that’s another unfortunate layer of separation in the industry. It goes back to what you talked about earlier, Bhakti, about reaching out and being more proactive in trying to foster some connection with folks in the industry. Maybe even starting earlier on, and connecting with leadership positions who resemble where you want to be and what you want to do so you can have those mentorships.
Bhakti Patel:
For sure. Having more women involved helps change that culture as well. There's a company that I was at, it was all white men. They would always talk about sports, and I just didn't know enough about that, so I could never have any conversation with them that wasn’t design-related. It made it almost impossible, being the only person coming from a different background. So, there was nothing that I could bring to the conversation in any way. During lunch, they only talked about these two or three things, it was impossible to break into it.
“everyone is going to know someone…work hard on every project, put in your best effort, don't ever throw in the towel on something just because you're not feeling it because it gets around.”
Mack Garrison:
Absolutely, and was that a freelance position or full-time position that you were doing there? Did you stick around a long time or a short time because of it?
Bhakti Patel:
It was freelance. I didn't choose to stick around because of that reason. I left because I got a better opportunity somewhere else that paid more, along with other things. They also negotiated my rate down, I wish I stuck with my guns on that one, but I didn't. I was just two years out of school so I compromised, but I feel they never negotiated down for anybody else. They pushed and pushed down, and then added two more hours into the day as well.
Mack Garrison:
Wow, yeah. That's pretty negative. On a positive note, with the Me Too movement and other recent events, I see a progression. People are more cognizant of it than they have been over the last 10 years. I think back to when I first got into the industry, even compared to where we are now, it feels like we're making steps forward. I would be concerned if it was still the status quo. So, in the light of looking forward and thinking about where this industry is heading, where do you see motion design going?
Bhakti Patel:
There is a lot of potential in how bigger companies are approaching motion design in a branding form; thinking about motion design systems. Google has one, IBM has one, Facebook has developed one as well. There's a lot of potential with systemic thinking when designing for motion, and that's a huge conversation with so much potential. But, I don't know where all the motion designers are on this one, so we need you.
The second thing is regarding the AR and VR realms, mixed reality as well. There's potential there. The problem that you run into right now is more so that you have 3D artists with a lot of skill, but not enough design chops. Sometimes you'll have a lot of graphic designers or artists who have these amazing ideas and can design them well, but they don't have the skills to bring them into reality. Motion designers stand in the middle because they can do both. They have the design skills and the motion skills. They can bring these from 3D into AR and VR, so they have this unique opportunity that I don't know if everyone realizes that they can push into this realm. And, there's a lot of money to be made there.
Bhakti Patel:
In terms of advertising, it's interesting. I haven't done too much lately, but I think the projects have dried up a bit. It’s not because motion design is getting smaller by any means. If anything, it's expanding. Expanding beyond the 55 inch TV. If you think about it, AR/VR advertising happens a lot. When it comes to global brand experience as well. That's something that I noticed that Pepsi has done a lot of. They're more focused on building an entire experience around their brand, so instead of doing an ad during the Super Bowl, they'll have the entire Super Bowl Halftime Show to put their logo all over, in motion. Things like that are huge, and I think it's just breaking away from what we understand motion design to be, its application, and thinking about where else it could be applied.
Mack Garrison:
That's great. It's one of the things that is so nice about our industry. You talked about the background and how people get into motion design. You can have a graphic designer with motion skills that come into play. You could have a more traditional animator. Someone who knows code can come into it. You have this melting pot of different characters, personality traits, and skillsets. That creates a lot of opportunities. There are so many different avenues that people can place themselves in, which is really inspiring and very optimistic for folks who are in this industry.
One thing that I was interested in was your comment on systems. You talked about where the future's heading. Animation motion graphics is a great conduit for organizing information and distilling complex materials into something easily digestible. So, I think the systems side of it is really interesting. I was curious if you could talk about your thoughts towards the systems or when you say system design and what that means when it comes to motion.
Game of Thrones, Teaser - 2D Animation by Bhakti Patel.
Bhakti Patel:
When we talk about branding, we talk about logo design, we talk about color palettes, and things like that. How a brand moves is something that people don't fully get into, but it's just as important as what colors you choose. For instance, Google gets away with doing these very bouncy movements, and that's because their brand allows for it. It's more playful in that way. But when you talk about something that's more business-oriented, something that's a little bit more serious as a brand, how does that move differently than how Google might move? These are things that are more interesting to think about, and they’re more like problem-solving, brand directives kind of thinking. There's a lot of potential in that realm. Companies are starting to realize that the way they apply motion to aspects of their brand makes as much of a difference as what colors they use, what types they use, what layouts they use.
This is a huge area that we can get into. And the thing is, this is the one area I haven't seen outdated tutorials on. But in terms of an actual full brand, talking everything from advertising, all the way down to button clicks, that's the entire system. So thinking about how people see it on TV, all the way down to how they experience it.
Mack Garrison:
Especially if that ecosystem evolves and becomes more complex, has more deliverables. There are all these different channels, you have to think about that, right? How are people going to be interacting with your brand as motion becomes more popular, as far as the content that people digest? You need to think about, to your point, UX, button clicks, how is the interactive experience going to affect their brand? How is the video someone watches, Instagram fascinating?
Well, awesome! Bhakti, this was great. I know you've got to run so I'll let you go, but thank you so much for chatting with Meryn and I. I think this was incredibly informative.
Bhakti Patel:
Sounds great. All right, have a good one, guys.
Mack Garrison:
Thanks, Bhakti, talk to you soon.
Meryn Hayes:
Thanks, stay safe.
Takeover Tuesday with Laura Porat
Q&A with Laura Porat, a Los Angeles-based Motion Designer.
Q&A with Laura Porat
Read time: 10min
Madison Caprara:
Hey there, Laura!
Why don’t you give us a brief rundown on yourself? How did you get into the industry?
Laura Porat:
Hey everyone!
I’m Laura Porat and I’m a freelance motion designer living in Los Angeles, California. I’ve always been super into art and would make comic books back in elementary school. In college, I discovered After Effects and fell in love with motion graphics. After graduating, I moved back to LA and worked mostly in the entertainment industry. I shifted towards politics when I worked for Elizabeth Warren and Joe Biden’s campaigns!
Madison Caprara:
Wow, COMPLETE shift. We’ll touch on that a bit later.
How would you go about describing your style?
Laura Porat:
I would describe my style as meta, fun, bright, and cartoony with vaporwave elements in it.
Madison Caprara:
Is there a certain subject matter you tend to gravitate towards?
Laura Porat:
I like to draw from real life and my own personal experiences! I’m deaf so I’ve created several artworks featuring my cochlear implant. As a minority, I feel like it’s incredibly important to tell stories about people from underrepresented communities, so that’s a subject matter I’m most passionate about.
Madison Caprara:
Pivoting back to your work in politics, so you’ve worked with both the Biden and Warren campaigns! How did that come about?
Laura Porat:
After the 2016 election, I felt really helpless and wondered what I personally could do to make sure that we didn’t have the same result in 2020. In 2019, I’d been following along the Democratic primaries with interest and really gravitated towards Elizabeth Warren. I’d reached out to her campaign, initially asking if I could volunteer my skills, and found out that they were in need of a full-time motion designer!
It just happened to be perfect timing. I packed my bags and moved to Boston where I worked full-time for her campaign. After she dropped out, I felt like my work wasn’t quite done and joined Joe Biden’s campaign a few months afterward.
Madison Caprara:
That’s wild!
Could you tell us a bit about what it was like working for a political campaign? Did it differ much from the average studio job?
Laura Porat:
Working for a political campaign is absolutely nuts. It’s so different from working in a typical 9-5 studio because for campaigns, you have to be on call basically every day, 24/7. It’s incredibly fast-paced and the work you do is so dependent on what the trending news is because things can shift so quickly. You have to work incredibly quickly and efficiently.
The really nice thing about working in politics is how diverse it is! You have people from all sorts of different backgrounds working on it. Entertainment and motion graphics in LA is very white male-dominated and often I would be the only woman motion designer working at a studio. Sometimes I was the only woman in the whole company. So politics was a huge shift from the entertainment industry.
Madison Caprara:
Did your own beliefs align with the campaign you were working for? I imagine it would be difficult if they didn’t. How did it feel for you when Biden won the presidency?
Laura Porat:
Personally, my own political beliefs are more closely aligned with Elizabeth Warren’s, as she was my first choice pick to be the Democratic nominee. To be completely honest, at first, I wasn’t totally thrilled that Joe Biden ended up being the candidate but ultimately I wanted him to win and defeat Donald Trump. As I worked on his campaign, I discovered that he was running on a much more progressive campaign than I’d initially given him credit for. Through the course of working on his campaign, I began to see him in a new light and appreciated his background and experience.
I was incredibly ecstatic to find out that he won. I was living in New York City at the time and when the election results were finally announced, everyone was screaming in joy and cars were honking their horns. It was like the entire city was celebrating. It was an incredible day and an incredible feeling knowing that all my hard work had finally paid off.
Madison Caprara:
We were popping bottles in my 900 sq. ft. apartment, so I can’t even begin to imagine what it must’ve been like in the city that day.
Now you’re on the West Coast. What’s the Motion scene like in LA? Dash is a bit of an outlier in Raleigh, NC.
Laura Porat:
The motion scene in LA is huge! There are so many different studios and companies that need motion designers in all different fields. Entertainment, technology, health, experiential, etc. There’s a ton of freelance work available which is super awesome.
It’s hard to break into initially if you don’t have any connections because there’s such a talented pool of animators to choose from. However, once you’ve worked at a few studios and do a good job, word of mouth is really paramount. Producers at one studio are always moving over to different studios and if they like you, they’ll bring you to the next studio. So an important takeaway is 1.) Don’t be an asshole, 2.) Show up on time and do the work, 3.) Make friends! Luckily LA has a ton of motion graphics meetups that you can attend and meet other motion designers.
Madison Caprara:
Noted!
How long have you been freelance? What attracted you to it?
Laura Porat:
I’ve been freelance on and off since 2017. Initially, I was forced into freelancing since I found it incredibly difficult to get a full-time job after graduating from college. It took me 10 months after graduating to get my first full-time job at a creative agency in LA. I worked at that creative agency for a year and honed my skills. I learned what it was like to work with a team of animators which is a skill that freelancing can’t teach you.
After working at that agency for a year, I quit and went back to freelancing full-time. I love the flexibility freelancing brings and I love to travel so I can plan my schedule around that. Also, freelancing allows me to take on projects that I’m passionate about and turn down work that I morally don’t align with.
Madison Caprara:
Do you ever collaborate with other designers? If so, what do you like, or even dislike, about it?
Laura Porat:
I love collabing with other designers!
I’ve been running Motion Collabs for about three or four years. Motion Designers from all over the world have participated in it. There’s such a wide range of people who have joined in, from total beginners to seasoned veterans. We’ve done things like making a music video, a pandemic-related video, steampunk pixel art, walk cycles, and many more. It’s super fun working with people who have completely different styles.
The frustrating aspect is that you can run into language and technical barriers. Sometimes I feel like a mom who has to keep track of 30 different animators while running Motion Collabs and making sure everyone follows the prompt. You can check out all of our full-length videos here.
Madison Caprara:
Are there any misconceptions that you have experienced, that comes with being a designer?
Laura Porat:
Probably the biggest misconception is that there’s no money in design. That’s absolutely false. There is money but it’s just a matter of finding good clients who will pay you what you’re worth.
Madison Caprara:
That was always a thought that made zero sense to me. Why would there be such a large pool of talent if there was no money in the business?
Now you know I have to ask it...where do you go for inspiration?
Laura Porat:
I take a lot of inspiration from real life! I like to go to museums and interesting exhibits. Aside from that, I watch a lot of movies and I get artbooks from the animated films that I enjoy. I try to get inspiration from industries outside of motion graphics otherwise I feel like it gets too same-y.
Madison Caprara:
Agreed, work gets stale if everyone is pulling ideas from the exact same sources.
As we’re wrapping up, is there any closing advice or statements you would like to share?
Laura Porat:
A speech therapist once told my mom that I would never learn how to talk or amount to anything. Clearly, that speech therapist was wrong on both fronts! My point is that throughout life, there will always be people who don’t think you can accomplish your goals. My advice is just to follow your own path and don’t listen to what other people have to say.
Takeover Tuesday with Jordan McBarnett
Q&A with Jordan McBarnett: a Trini-American sophomore at Ringling College of Art and Design currently studying Motion Design.
Q&A with Jordan McBarnett
Read time: 5min
“Calvin Harris Poster” | Jordan McBarnett
Madison Caprara:
Hey, Jordan!
Why don’t you give us a little introduction to yourself and your work? How did you initially get into Motion Design?
Jordan McBarnett:
Yo, what’s up Dash? Thank you for having me be a part of this, I am super honored! Well, my name is Jordan and I am a rising junior studying Motion Design and minoring in Business of Art and Design. I love to challenge myself with learning new things and push myself to become the best designer and creative I can be.
I was a LEGO fanatic who was into design and photography in middle and high school. I created LEGO Stop Motion Animation Videos (aka Brickfilms) on my YouTube Channel since I was 13 years old. I actually discovered Motion Design through Joash Berkeley, who is now the Creative Director of Eido and one of my inspirations. My father and I reached out to him so that we could learn more about the medium when I was in high school. After talking to Joash, I was hooked and knew I wanted to get into the Motion Design industry. Thank you, Joash for everything!
Madison Caprara:
I see that you go to Ringling! Taking into account the ever-present debate of pursuing a formal education, how has your experience been?
Jordan McBarnett:
Oh trust me, I have debated myself going to an art school ever since high school. Studying at Ringling College has been pretty amazing and inspiring. The teachers here are all very dedicated to our improvement and success. My peers and Motion buds are so uplifting and talented as well. I believe that if I didn’t go to Ringling, I wouldn’t have known half as much as I know now about animation, design, professionalism, or even composition and storytelling; everything at Ringling is very useful. Because of simply attending Ringling, I have had a much better opportunity to communicate with outside professionals and successful alumni in the industry due to the “name” that Ringling has!
I truly believe that to be successful at any medium, you do not NEED to pursue a formal education. However, it is fantastic for connecting to people in the industry. You just have to take the initiative to make those connections become a reality.
Madison Caprara:
100% agree, sometimes interpersonal skills are more difficult to learn than technical skills.
Pivoting off of that, is there anything you feel that you have experienced or learned so far that you wouldn’t have been able to gain from anywhere other than Ringling, or a university in general?
Jordan McBarnett:
Hell ya!
Again, the connections were a huge part of Ringling I have experienced while attending the college. Also, I have definitely learned more about storytelling and pacing to properly communicate your idea! There’s this one class called Concept that has been super helpful that isn’t found at any other college except for Ringling. It has been very effective in turning my ideas into coherent designs and animations.
Madison Caprara:
The world has pretty much been flipped upside down with this pandemic. Out of all the communities that I feel have been impacted the most, students are definitely up there.
For me, consistency is key. What’s your daily routine looking like these days? In which part of the day do you feel most productive?
Jordan McBarnett:
I normally start off waking up at 8 AM and fix myself a light breakfast before my morning workout, usually followed by reading 10 pages of my book. After eating a high protein, whole grain lunch, I either work on freelance opportunities or my part-time job, depending on the day of the week. At night, I spend time with my family till about 8 PM and do more of my personal work till midnight. I find that I am most productive in the evenings and at night.
Madison Caprara:
Nice! I love hearing about other people’s productivity schedules. It’s always interesting to see how different our brains thrive.
Moving on, Is there a singular type of design or style you see yourself gravitating to most? If yes, why?
Jordan McBarnett:
I gravitate more towards 3D Design and Animation as of right now. I just love the ease of using Cinema 4D and the complexity of Redshift. I’m finding supplies to build my computer to optimize my ability to create more beautiful designs and animations in Cinema 4D.
Madison Caprara:
Aside from creating them for enjoyment, what are some benefits you feel you gain from personal projects outside of your client work?
Jordan McBarnett:
Although personal projects are super fun within themselves, doing a personal project helps me learn more about a certain program in general, and helps me develop and finesse my style overall!
Madison Caprara:
What has been one of your favorites?
Jordan McBarnett:
I normally don’t have a project that I gravitate towards. But to give you an answer, the project that I had the most fun with was my Mango piece. If you were to ask me what was the meaning behind this animation, I wouldn’t know the answer! I just wanted to create a piece that made me smile.
Madison Caprara:
What are some hobbies outside of design that you do to decompress?
Jordan McBarnett:
I am a gym addict and love to work out at least five times a week! I also love to eat healthily and take care of my mental health by meditating and reading inspiring books. Particularly ones where I can learn about finance, business, mental health, or human nature. On the weekends, I mess around with my guitar and spend time at the movies.
Madison Caprara:
Where do you go for inspiration?
Jordan McBarnett:
Inspiration can be found anywhere, even right under your nose. I try to not overthink my ideas and go with the one on top of my head. If I am in a mental rut, I’ll usually go on a run outside or meditate to calm my nerves.
“ODDCOL TITLES” | Jordan McBarnett
Madison Caprara:
Wrapping up, do you have any closing advice, points, or statements you would like to share?
Jordan McBarnett:
Yes! I believe that you should always get out of your comfort zone and try new things, mentally and physically, even if it seems very scary or uncertain at first. A life full of comfort is no way to live and can get very unfulfilling and boring; you only have so much time to spend, never waste a second away. Finally, never limit yourself and your views; when you grow and improve as a person, your work, ambitions, and relationships in life will also drastically improve.
Takeover Tuesday with Josh Edwards
Q&A with Josh Edwards: a motion graphics designer based along the Sunshine Coast in Australia.
Q&A with Josh Edwards
Read time: 10min
“Personal Branding” | Josh Edwards
Madison Caprara:
Hey, Josh!
Why don’t you start off by introducing yourself and giving us a bit of background on how you got into the MoGraph world.
Josh Edwards:
G’day, (I’ve got to say that right?) I’m Josh Edwards and I’m a freelance Motion Graphics Designer based along the Sunshine Coast in Australia. I'm also a husband and dad to three rad little humans.
My road into motion graphics I suppose was pretty typical. As a kid, I always loved to draw and in high school, my older sister told me about graphic design. She thought it would be right up my alley. So I checked it out at a university open day and knew right away that it was what I wanted to do. I didn't so much like the idea of being a struggling artist, so commercial art seemed perfect. I got to the end of my third year and had the thought that I was making all of these static designs and images, but how much cooler would it be if they moved? So I decided to teach myself After Effects for part of my final project. That then landed me my first job outside of Uni as a Junior Motion Graphics Designer.
Madison Caprara:
You definitely had to throw in the stereotypical g’day!
So, after University, at some point, you ended up as an Art Director at BUCK Sydney. I understand you’re no longer with them. How has the transition been from that to remote freelance work?
Josh Edwards:
Definitely a gradual one! I absolutely loved being an Art director at BUCK, they are seriously the most talented and awesome people. It’s the best job I’ve ever had. But between my wife and kids (I had two then, three now), and the cost of living combined with big hours in Sydney, it just wasn't sustainable for us, especially with no family close by. It was a really tough decision, but we decided to move up north to where my wife’s family is. BUCK was awesome about it and I stayed on staff for about a year, mostly working with the NY office on c4d jobs. I then naturally just shifted into freelancing, since I was already working remotely and working across multiple offices.
Madison Caprara:
Makes sense, it’s awesome they accommodated for a bit. You don’t see that very often.
Did the pandemic play any role in your decision to transition?
“Our Heroes Fight Monsters” | Josh Edwards
Josh Edwards:
For the most part, you hear stories of how much COVID has disrupted work/life. But for me honestly, not a whole lot changed. I’m very fortunate to live in a place where they managed to almost eliminate the spread, and I had already been working remotely for over a year. It just so happened that the pandemic shifted everyone else in the industry quickly over to what I was already doing. We did have a baby girl literally days before lockdown, being able to work from home and enjoy so much time with her has been a great gift.
Madison Caprara:
Congratulations! My sister also had a baby mid-pandemic. She VERY much valued the extra time in his early months.
So, freelance was a great move for you, is there anything you miss about being a part of a larger company though?
Josh Edwards:
Friends and community for sure. I’m a natural recluse, so I'm quite comfortable doing my thing on my own. But I also realize how incredibly beneficial it is to rub shoulders with such talented people today. I still get to do it a little, but with freelance work being mostly job-to-job, it takes out some of that consistent interaction.
Madison Caprara:
I definitely think we can all understand that feeling to a point. Even us self-ascribed introverts or home-bodies.
This industry has so many talented creatives. And now with the pandemic promoting remote working conditions, it’s even easier to collaborate with someone halfway across the world. How do you maintain that creative edge?
Josh Edwards:
The thing I love about design more than anything is that design is about problem-solving, and more often than not, that problem-solving is for someone else. I’ve always been interested in the ‘why’ of things. I was the kid that pulled cameras and toys apart to figure out how they worked and why they had been created the way that they were.
I find that it’s pretty easy to just accept things as they are, but almost always, there has been a lot of thought and reason put into something to arrive at the final result. I honestly just love the problem-solving aspect of design and being able to use processes from unrelated areas to come to an effective solution.
Madison Caprara:
Interesting, speaking more on that, in your opinion how does someone go about setting themselves apart?
Josh Edwards:
Haha, that’s a great question and to be honest, I'm not sure. I learned a long time ago, that I personally do my best work when I'm not the frontman. I’m way more productive and comfortable being a right-hand man, so I’d much rather blend in and get to work with all of those insanely talented people rather than compete against them for attention.
I know that some designers niche down and develop a ‘style’ to set themselves apart. But the reason I work in short form animation rather than film is that each project looks totally different from the last. I’d get so bored if everything I did looked the same, mostly because I feel like there are fewer design or animation problems to solve.
Madison Caprara:
A lot of creatives believe that a good motion designer should also be an excellent graphic designer. Would you agree?
Josh Edwards:
I think it definitely helps, but it's not essential. One of the things that I love about our industry is that almost everyone has a different way in, which adds so much more character and substance to what we make.
Design fundamentals are really helpful but also things like animation principles, life drawing, photography, storytelling, good transitions, sound design, and cinematography principles are all super helpful. For me, I've always loved making things, which is partly why some of my favorite jobs I've worked on are practical or mixed media. But that's not for everyone.
Madison Caprara:
Happy to get your take on that, Josh. When asked, I have been getting a wide variety of answers, but everyone always has a killer reasoning for backing it up.
If you had to choose one collaborator for a dream project, who would it be?
Josh Edwards:
It’s really hard to work out what a dream project would look like. If I think about the best jobs I've ever worked on, it’s all about the teams that I got to work with. I’ve managed to tick off working with almost all of my favorite studios. However, I would still love to line something up with Jorge R. Canedo Estrada at some point. I worked on the biggest story with him ages ago and we just haven't managed to make our schedules work.
Madison Caprara:
Sick! He’s actually one of our most anticipated speakers for The Dash Bash this fall. Jorge’s work is amazing!
I have to ask this next one of everyone, I usually find a new outlet for some inspo. Where do you go for inspiration?
Josh Edwards:
Probably the same places everyone else does, to be honest! Instagram, Pinterest, WINE after COFFEE, Stash Media. But I also like some alternative sources like leManoosh (for product design) or places like Colossal.
We are currently renovating a house that we bought at the end of last year, so I’m learning a whole lot more about building, architecture, interior design, and all the trades. Learning how to do all of it is super inspiring, and I'm sure it'll flow into my work in some way.
“Bridgespan - Narrowing The Crowd” | Josh Edwards
Madison Caprara:
Nice! Well, good luck with the house renovations! That’s always an exciting/stressful time.
To finish this off, do you have any closing advice or statements you would like to share, Josh?
Josh Edwards:
I’ve found the best thing that you can do is to solve other people's problems. Try to make the lives of the people around you easier, not more difficult. The amount of responsibility that the leaders in Motion Graphics companies carry is massive, so the more you can help them out the better everyone ends up. It's a team sport.
Madison Caprara:
Nice! So we’re reaching the end. Do you have any closing advice or statements you would like to share?
Josh Edwards:
I’ve found the best thing that you can do is to solve other people's problems. Try to make the lives of the people around you easier, not more difficult. The amount of responsibility that the leaders in Motion Graphics companies carry is massive, so the more you can help them out the better everyone ends up. It's a team sport.
Event Accommodations
We’ve been able to secure room blocks at multiple hotels within walking distance to our location. To book within the room block use the instructions below. Room blocks are limited and are first come first serve:
(1) Holiday Inn
Address:
320 Hillsborough Street, Raleigh, NC, 27603
Details:
Set in a 19-story rotunda, this modern hotel is 0.7 miles from the Raleigh Convention Center and 14.8 miles from the Raleigh-Durham International Airport.
Go online or call 855-914-1878 to book a room block (use Block ID: DAS) to book by phone. You will need to book by 8/22/2021 to get the discounted rate.
Address:
600 Glenwood Avenue, Raleigh NC, 27603
Details:
This modern hotel is 1 mile from live music at the Red Hat Amphitheater and the North Carolina Museum of Natural Sciences.
Go online or call (919) 825-4770 to book.
(3) Aloft
Address:
2100 Hillsborough Street, Raleigh, NC 27607
Details:
On a tree-lined boulevard across from North Carolina State University, this stylish hotel is a mile from the Contemporary Art Museum of Raleigh and 2 miles from the North Carolina State Capitol.
Visit the website or call (919) 828-9900 to book
(4) Longleaf
Address: 300 N Dawson St, Raleigh, NC 27603
Details:
An 8-minute walk from the North Carolina State Capitol, this chic hotel with a mid-century modern vibe is a 16-minute walk from both Raleigh Union train station and performances at the Red Hat Amphitheater.
Check out the website or call (919) 867-5770 to book
Here are a few other places we’d recommend that do not currently have a room block:
(5) The Guest House
Address: 420 S Bloodworth Street, Raleigh, NC 27601
Details:
Set on a tree-lined street Downtown, this genteel adults-only boutique hotel in a 19th-century Victorian home is a 14-minute walk from the North Carolina Museum of History and a 12-minute walk from the North Carolina State Capitol. It's a mile from Raleigh Union Station.
919-533-3052.
Address: 421 S Salisbury St, Raleigh, NC 2760
Details:
This sophisticated hotel is a 2-minute walk from the Raleigh Convention Center and a 5-minute walk from the Duke Energy Center for the Performing Arts.
(919) 834-9900.
Address: 603 W Morgan St, Raleigh, NC 27603
Details:
In the vibrant Warehouse District, this upmarket hotel is a 7-minute walk from contemporary art exhibits at CAM Raleigh and an 8-minute walk from Raleigh Union Station. The North Carolina State Capitol is less than a mile away.
(984)275-2220.
Takeover Tuesday with Victoria Blair
Q&A with Victoria Blair: a motion designer & illustrator based in D.C.
Q&A with Victoria Blair
Read time: 10min
Madison Caprara:
What’s up, Victoria?
Could you give us a little intro to yourself and your work? Some background if you will?
Victoria Blair:
Hey, I’m Victoria!
I’m a freelance motion designer & illustrator currently living in Washington D.C. I’m originally from Pennsylvania (the Philly/Wawa side) and I’ve been a doodler since my early days in diapers. Lately, I’ve been experimenting with a lot of collage-style motion work, as well as experimenting with lighting in my illustrations.
Madison Caprara:
Nice!
Building off of that, how did you get into motion design and illustration? When did you know that this was something you wanted to pursue? Did you have any support in your decision?
“lately, I’ve found my best art comes from allowing myself to just create what I want, and how I want it while ignoring all the rules and trending styles.”
Victoria Blair:
I’m really lucky that my parents have always supported my creative side. I studied film production in college, and during my time I loved learning about cinematography, directing, and editing, but I struggled to find that motivating spark with anything production-related. Towards the end of my senior year, I saw a few computer science majors working on a kinetic type project in After Effects for one of their classes, and I thought that was the COOLEST thing. I think that very night I downloaded the program and started to play around with it while sorting through every tutorial on YouTube.
After graduation, I worked a few odd jobs in arts marketing & editing. I told my managers at the time that I was interested in learning motion design, and they encouraged me to incorporate it into the work that I did. Those projects were very simple, but looking back I appreciate how supportive my teammates were. I eventually discovered School of Motion, and after taking Animation Bootcamp, was able to land my first gig in the industry. I’ve been working ever since!
Madison Caprara:
So, I’ve noticed that some of your most recent pieces are collage works. Your reel looks amazing, by the way! What’s been one of the most challenging styles for you to get into or learn?
Frames of Fear 2020, Unkempt Beast - By Victoria Blair
Victoria Blair:
Thank you so much!
I feel as though I’m still in this exploratory phase of my career. I know what I love to do and what I want to learn (which lately seems like everything). But I don’t have a ton of experience in a variety of styles. One of the first real projects I ever worked on was a collage-style animation, and I think that helped me get hired for projects requiring that particular style. I’d love to learn more traditional frame-by-frame animation, as well as character work.
Madison Caprara:
What about one of your favorite styles?
Victoria Blair:
I love those styles that are a hybrid of 2D & 3D, to the point where I have no idea how it was accomplished but I desperately want to dissect it and try to create something similar. I love the look of 2D illustrations, so when that gets placed in an environment that plays on perspective giving it a 3D feel, I think that looks incredible!
Madison Caprara:
So, in your opinion, what are - if any - some visual trends right now to focus on?
“be proud of the work you do! not every project will be a masterpiece, but you’re always learning and will continue to improve, and that is a beautiful thing to experience.”
Victoria Blair:
Hard to say!
I feel as though there are a lot of visual styles I see frequently. I’m drawn to the weird and outrageous, where the characters are odd and almost ugly looking, but in a really beautiful way, you know? At the same time, I also admire the pieces that can accomplish the story with simple abstract visuals and geometric shapes.
Madison Caprara:
I tend to gravitate more towards the “weird” and abstract pieces too!
How do you personally stay relevant in this industry when there are so many talented creatives?
Victoria Blair:
Lately, I’ve found my best art comes from allowing myself to just create what I want, and how I want it while ignoring all the rules and trending styles. I feel really lucky to be a creative, but it can be a funny thing when you make that your career. Most of my professional work tends to fit a standard or commercial style, and sometimes I let that creep into my personal work.
My brain sometimes thinks my personal work isn’t good because it doesn’t fit a trending style, or isn’t presented in a way to fit a fancy algorithm. As a kid, I was always creating something without a care for other people’s opinions, so I try to maintain that kind of attitude and enjoy each piece I create.
Madison Caprara:
That imposter syndrome. It’s a b. We’ve spoken about it a lot recently. It seems like everyone battles with it in some aspect.
Being a woman in this industry, you’re a bit of a minority, have there been any particularly hard hurdles to overcome?
Victoria Blair:
Definitely. There were some difficult moments in college, especially in my major where I was one of only three women in my class. At the time I was just a quiet kid with no clear direction of where I wanted to go, so I struggled to speak up and advocate for myself and my skills. There was always someone with a louder voice or a bigger ego in the room, so I just kept my ideas to myself and helped everyone else out as best as I could. Even though that approach gave me a lot of experience, I left college without a real project that I was proud of and could call my own.
Breaking into the industry wasn’t super smooth either. I like to think I’m a very easy-going person, so when I was hired on a long term contract with a boss that turned out to be extremely sexist, condescending, and ultimately cultivating a toxic work environment, I had no idea how to handle it and failed to stand up for myself. I left that contract early for a multitude of reasons, but the biggest takeaway from that was learning the importance of self-worth and the power of confidence.
Madison Caprara:
Self-confidence is game-changing, but EXTREMELY hard to put into practice. I’m a big fan of the fake it ‘til you make it mindset.
Do you have any advice for young women just beginning their own journeys?
Victoria Blair:
Talk to others, experiment and fail, and enjoy the ride! It can be really really really difficult when you are just starting out. Know that you aren’t alone and that teammates, managers, or other animators in the industry you admire are incredibly helpful and important in developing your career. Ask them questions, share your struggles, and chat through your goals. In school, it was drilled into my brain that success in the industry is “all about who you know.” Strong professional relationships will pave the way for opportunities in the future.
Madison Caprara:
Who is your absolute FAVORITE artist or work?
Victoria Blair:
Impossible to pick just one because I have so many favorites! For illustration, I’ll always have a soft spot for Edward Gorey’s work. His illustrations inspired me to continue drawing in college during my free time (and during lectures…). I love his creatures and characters, specifically the ones from The Gashlycrumb Tinies.
School of Motion Holiday Card - Victoria Blair
Madison Caprara:
So pivoting from there, where do you go for inspiration?
Victoria Blair:
Everywhere! Cinematography in films, artwork in museums, old crumbling architecture, weird creatures in nature, and especially music with how lyrics and instrumentals paint their own visuals in my mind. When I hit a creative block, I know that’s when I need to leave my computer and go to my sources of inspiration to find that next idea.
Madison Caprara:
Nice! So we’re reaching the end. Do you have any closing advice or statements you would like to share?
Victoria Blair:
Something I’ve been trying to preach to myself lately is to be mindful in the moment, admire the progress I’m making, and all the people that have shaped me into being who I am now. It’s so easy to dismiss and doubt your work when you only compare it with what you see on social media. Be proud of the work you do! Not every project will be a masterpiece, but you’re always learning and will continue to improve, and that is a beautiful thing to experience.
Madison Caprara:
Great speaking to you, Victoria!
We’ll catch up again this Friday on our Mograph Lunch podcast!
Takeover Tuesday with Stephen Ong
Q&A with Stephen Ong: an animation director with a penchant for crafting loops and short films
Q&A with Stephen Ong
Read time: 5min
Madison Caprara:
Hey there, Stephen! Tell us a bit about yourself. How would you describe your current work and what did it take to get you where you are now?
Stephen Ong:
I’m Stephen Ong, I’m an animator & director from the UK.
My current work often involves short looping animations, featuring bouncy playful objects, scenes, and deconstructed characters. I also create short films and work on commercial animation projects.
Madison Caprara:
Nice!
What was it about this field that initially attracted you?
Created by Stephen Ong
Stephen Ong:
I believe play is so important in life, even as an adult. For me, working in animation feels like a big toy box to keep exploring and having fun with. You can create a different world every day without rules or restrictions. This was the main reason I chose to study animation and illustration.
Madison Caprara:
I love that outlook on life. That’s probably one of the most interesting ways I’ve heard animation described yet.
So, you had started your studio, Make It Move, with your partner, Mark Fuller, correct? How exactly did that come about? What was that dynamic like?
Stellar - Directed by Stephen Ong & Mark Fuller, Sound Design by Drew Simmons, Produced by Make it Move Productions
Stephen Ong:
Our studio is no longer operating. Mark and I are both independently working now and we are repped by the lovely people at MATHS in the U.S. for commercial work.
Having the studio was fun, but it made me realize that I don’t want to run full-service production. I found working too much with the client-side took some of my love out of animating, fortunately, I have a good balance now.
Madison Caprara:
That’s great to hear! Finding that balance is always a bit of a journey.
Speaking on balance, we’re in the midst of an extraordinarily challenging time, especially for professional creatives. What gives you hope these days? How’re you keeping your mental health intact?
Stephen Ong:
I’m an introvert so initially, I really enjoyed the isolation. I was creating a lot of animations to keep my mind busy. However, a lot of our inspiration comes from being in the world; culture, meeting people, and experiences. It takes more than just looking at things on a screen. So winter this year was hard, the main thing that keeps me going is to make plans for when we can do things again.
Madison Caprara:
I tend to lean a little towards introversion too, I was really surprised by how difficult it was to adjust to not being able to just hang around people socially.
Pivoting over to the professional world, has the pandemic radically affected your access to work, or maybe even, your creative process in its entirety?
Created by Stephen Ong
Stephen Ong:
I have mainly been making shorter pieces of animation during the pandemic, animated loops have really helped me get things finished. My work in 2020 feels like a lot of studies, exploring how I make work, testing out ideas and techniques. It’s felt very explorative, which has been fun.
Madison Caprara:
I see that you are pretty active on your social media - particularly Instagram. How important do you think these digital outlets are for the success of professional creatives?
Stephen Ong:
This came about from wanting to explore and find out if something, a particular style or subject, worked. I like seeing how an audience responds to things, and it helped me to find a direction and curate things. I’m not good at curating my own work, so social media has helped a bit.
The importance of social media is outside of what you see on the feeds though. I’ve had conversations and connections with people in DM’s or on Discord/Slack that have led to opportunities and me making new friends in the industry. I guess that is the cool part about it, everyone is so connected and people are just up for talking and sharing experiences and support.
Madison Caprara:
That’s the biggest thing I love about social media, the ability to connect. It’s partly why I’ve made it into a career, but there can be some downsides. Are there any cons that you personally perceive?
Stephen Ong:
Just looking at your phone too much, look up at the real stuff!
Madison Caprara:
Fair, very fair!
So then, where do you find yourself going for inspiration? Any advice to those stuck in a creative rut?
Stephen Ong:
Ha! This follows the last question well. Just being in the world, exploring and experiences. Not Google Images or social media, all my ideas come from life.
Madison Caprara:
What is one of your favorite pieces that you’ve worked on? What about one of your favorite pieces in general - can be from someone you admire!
Stephen Ong:
I did a really fun piece for RSA last year, but it’s been so delayed due to COVID...it’s not even published yet. My favorite short film I’ve worked on is probably Stellar which is about a space-traveling eyeball. I made it a few years ago. It was just such a simple production, I storyboarded it and animated it in two weeks. Visually it’s simplistic but I like the story.
Work that I admire…I really like music videos, most of the stuff directed by Canada or Michel Gondry. Or any Ok Go videos, I don't think you can NOT like them. I also love Geoff McFetridge's paintings.
Created by Stephen Ong
Madison Caprara:
Is there anything in particular you try, or would like to try, to address or explore through the animations you create?
Stephen Ong:
I’d love to try painting on a large scale. There are quite a few legal walls where I live, so I would love to paint some sort of sequence on those with my characters or something.
Madison Caprara:
Interesting, going from the digital to the physical. I’d love to see it!
Are there any particular apps, software, or other technology you would recommend getting familiar with to someone just getting into animation?
Stephen Ong:
I would recommend picking up something like rough animator on an iPad and playing around with fbf animation. They just get you in tune with timing for animation.
Madison Caprara:
Good to know!
Do you have any closing advice or points you would like to share?
Stephen Ong:
Keep having fun!
Light - Illustration & Animation by Stephen Ong, Music composition by Josh Alport
Takeover Tuesday with Sofie Lee
Q&A with Sofie Lee: a freelance Motion Designer and Illustrator.
Q&A with Sofie Lee
Read time: 10min
Created by Sofie Lee.
Madison Caprara:
Hey Sofie!
How did you get into the career of motion design and illustration?
Sofie Lee:
I studied motion design at SCAD where I learned both animation in After Effects and 2D vector design. Drawing wasn’t a thing for me and I wasn’t much interested at that time. As I started my career in the industry, however, I saw a variety of design and illustration styles that were incorporated within animation. It was such a mind-blowing experience. They were so fascinating. Being able to share my ideas within drawings is a magical skill when beginning rough concepts, you know? That’s when I started to teach myself drawing and illustration.
Madison Caprara:
So, have you ever worked with a studio/agency, or have you always worked freelance? Do you see any pros and cons for both?
Bom Bom: A story of cats - Created by Sofie Lee
Sofie Lee:
During my senior year at SCAD, I had an opportunity to intern at a design and animation studio, which then luckily transitioned into a staff position. I embarked on my freelance journey last year to be on a new adventure.
But yes, definitely. In my personal experience, I’d say the pros of being in a staff position are that: 1.) It gives a safety cushion in terms of financial security, especially when you are fresh out of college. 2.) You have access to resources provided by the studio and get to learn a lot from other artists as well as the production pipeline. And 3.) You have fewer responsibilities on your shoulders because there will be an art director and creative director to back you up if you make a mistake or have to take time off due to any health issues.
The cons of being in a staff position: 1.) I personally felt constrained. Animation requires great teamwork and the majority of the job is client/commercial work where things need to be executed quickly, but beautifully, within the timeline. So, people were hired for a specific skill whereas I was interested in a lot of different things and wanted to grow at my own pace while making trials and errors. 2.) Having a limited income; income is often limited to the agreed salary unless you get a bonus or are promoted. Sometimes as an international employee, you are responsible for those extra attorney fees which are taken out of your salary.
Sofie Lee:
On the flip side, you have freelance work. Some pros are: First and foremost, you are your own boss which is the most exciting thing if you think about it. Because you are a producer of yourself as well, you can plan out your own schedule and grow at your own pace. Secondly, you get to learn the business side of production, which helps a lot to be aware of why smart decisions are important; how to get things done within the time limit with great work, etc. These new perspectives in business have been helping my workflow as well. And lastly, there is less distraction. When working at a studio with people around you, sometimes a random call pops up or your co-worker asks you to get a coffee (I miss this part) but you don’t have much of these since you are working alone. I’m realizing that I tend to focus better and get things done quicker working alone.
Cons of being freelance: You have to manage EVERYTHING and be responsible for them. Secondly, you can feel isolated and disconnected from people because you are working alone. And lastly, your daily routine can easily crumble if you don’t stick with it or remind yourself every day.
School of Motion: Jofie Collaboration - Design by Sofie Lee. Animation by Jon Riedell. Sound Design by Sean Smith.
Madison Caprara:
I feel like you’re either in the ‘love it’ or ‘hate it’ camp when it comes to remote work. There’s no grey area. I personally am a big fan.
Moving on, what has been your most interesting experience to date?
Sofie Lee:
I’d say attending the 2019 Blend Festival in Vancouver. I met a lot of great artists that I had been following. We talked about work, things we were inspired by, and just got to know each other in person. It felt dreamy.
Madison Caprara:
Nice! I haven’t gotten to experience one of these festivals yet, it’s why I’m doubly excited for dash bash this fall!
What is your favorite subject matter to draw inspiration from or pay homage to?
Sofie Lee:
Human anatomy and weird geometric forms and objects that draw on a certain mood. I also love abstract things (both organic and geometric) because they can be interpreted in many different ways. There isn’t a certain answer to be understood.
Created by Sofie Lee
Madison Caprara:
How often do you allow your personal experiences to play a role in your works? Is there a specific piece you can think of for reference?
Sofie Lee:
I like to allow my personal experiences to play a role as much as possible because creating art based on my own experiences is such a therapeutic process to me. However, I also love collaborating with other creatives where the work doesn’t necessarily need my personal experience. It’s sometimes even better to remove myself and treat it as a creative solution. In the evenings, I work on my personal projects and that’s where I revisit my journals which are full of my own stories, feelings, and experiences. It’s almost like I’m hanging out with my past self and paying attention to my inner voice. I think one of the references I can use is probably my film I directed and designed called, Dream, where you can listen to my story and meet me through the work.
Madison Caprara:
I’m not sure if you’ve ever taken on a project that goes against your personal beliefs. How responsible do you feel creatives need to be when it comes to the overall message communicated with their work?
Sofie Lee:
I feel like this is a very subjective question and needs to be considered in a lot of different ways in order for it to be answered. Unfortunately, I don’t think I have a definite answer. I wouldn’t take on a project that’s crazy out of my scope of beliefs, and I’d also feel responsible for every type of project I agreed to work on regardless of my belief system because it’s about professionalism. Any work we create, whether it’s professional or personal, always communicates some sort of message which can be interpreted subjectively.
So my questions are: Should we as creatives feel responsible for every work we’ve created? Does every project we work on determine who we are? Are there any set rules and regulations to go about evaluating? What if you have other responsibilities that are bigger than pursuing your social responsibility as a creative? I definitely think it takes a crucial role to be aware of the power of creatives to influence the world, yet I’m genuinely curious to hear what others’ thoughts might be in regards to this.
Madison Caprara:
It is such a complex, weighted question. I’d be really interested to hear feedback from others as well.
For your personal projects, where do you go for inspiration?
Jesper Ryom Music Video; Nights - Designed by Sofie Lee. Directed and Animated by Mathijs Luijten. Sound Design by Jesper Ryom. Hosted by Delicieuse Records.
Sofie Lee:
I love going to art museums, watching movies, or going on a trip with my camera. On the internet, I check Motionographer pretty often as well as Wine after Coffee on Vimeo. Reading editorial magazines is also one of my go-to’s when it comes to finding some inspiration. Oh, and I can’t forget to say The Metropolitan Museum of Art website is full of amazingness.
Madison Caprara:
What is a skill that you believe is universally beneficial for all of the folks within the industry to perfect?
Sofie Lee:
I believe it is your communication skill; being able to articulate one’s thoughts and ideas is so important. I can’t stress enough to emphasize that. Surprisingly, it often gets underestimated. We all come from different backgrounds and people are now working remotely from all over the world. That being said, we should never assume the way we communicate individually is the right way, as there isn’t such a thing. Try to be a good listener. I also believe this would encourage the creation of an environment where anyone can speak their minds when it comes to collaborative work.
Madison Caprara:
Surprisingly - or not - you are not the first I’ve spoken with within the industry that stressed the importance of good communication skills.
Are there any particularly big challenges right now that you’re trying to overcome?
Girl - Design by Sofie Lee. Animation by Lykke Daylum.
Sofie Lee:
As I’m now running my own business, the first big challenge at the moment is time management. I used to be pretty impulsive and would do things that I just felt like doing. I also have a puppy to take care of now, so my time is limited. Therefore, I’ve been making a schedule first in the morning based on my priorities and try to stick with it.
The second biggest challenge is keeping myself healthy. I was pretty swamped last year in both my personal and professional lives as I began working as a freelancer. I’ve been trying to exercise even just for five minutes a day. It’s tough because I’m not a big fan of moving my body and feeling sore. However, I love so much of what I do and want to keep pursuing this creative career.
Lastly, is to sustain peace of mind and toughening up my inner strength. Freelancing can be a rollercoaster. I didn’t believe it when people said it, but it is true. A precise schedule is needed but it doesn’t mean it always works that way. So I often try to remind myself that today won’t come again once it’s passed, don’t be shaken by temporary circumstances and feelings, cherish every moment I live in.
Madison Caprara:
That’s a great mindset to have.
Do you have any closing points you would like to share?
Sofie Lee:
I recently watched a documentary on Henri Matisse because I was really inspired by one of his works (I mean I always do but this particular one pulled extra interest) that said, “art should be something like a good armchair in which to rest from physical fatigue.” Working for someone is great but this quote reminds me of giving myself some time to be immersed in my own art and feel at peace and relax as we all deserve that.
Dream - Directed and designed by Sofie Lee. Animation by Omid Seraj. Sound Design by The Chicken and Sono Sanctus.