Mack Garrison 12/5/23 Mack Garrison 12/5/23

Takeover Tuesday with David Holm

An interview with David Holm: a 2D animation & illustration specialist from Detroit, Michigan.

Interviewer: Bella Alfonsi

Read time: 5min

Bella:

Thanks for joining us for Takeover Tuesday, Dave! Please give the people a lil' introduction!

Dave:

My Name is David Holm and I am an animator/designer at Boxfort, in Detroit Michigan.

Bella:

How did you get into motion design?

Dave:

I went to school for graphic design originally but always wanted to make cartoons and make short films.

The community college at the time didn't have any classes for 2d animation.

But towards my last semester I won a scholarship contest. Which gave me the funds to take a full year of extra classes. So I took Intro to After Effects and Advanced After Effects(taught by Steve Savalle at the time)

And those two classes really helped me use my graphic design and illustration skills in a new way.

Then a year after graduating college in 2012 I landed my first in house studio job as a motion designer!

Bella:

What's the workflow like when mixing 2D and 3D styles together?

Dave:

When I work with mixing 2D and 3D I usually like the 3d elements to ground the 2D animations. So the characters will be all 2D animated but the environment is all made in 3D.

I just think mixing the 2d/3d can give you a really unique look and results. I also really like using glass and reflections to get cool random light leaks.

Bella:

I love me a character made from an inanimate object- big fan of yours. How do you give personality to something that isn't a human?

Dave:

Thank you! I really have a wild imagination that lets me give random objects backstories and wonder how this character/object behaves in an animated world.

Every object in my house has been drawn with a face lol

Dave worked with his pals Gunner to create some animated stickers for a unique mint company called Flintt Mints

Bella:

Do you have a favorite project that you've worked on?

Dave:

My favorite project I've worked on is probably Recess or Half Rez, because we collaborated together to mix a bunch of styles together and made something that felt fresh and unique.

Bella:

Where do you find inspiration?

Dave:

I find inspiration in everyday life. I really benefit from going outside and just watching the plants sway in the wind. And see the wild life thrive and just live around us.

Also bringing a mini sketch book around and using it to do quick idea sketches on the spot.

Bella:

What are you most proud of in your career thus far?

Dave:

What I am most proud of in my career would be probably being able to successfully work as an animator/designer and pursue other hobbies on the side.

Recently I joined my friends band and being freelance lets me be flexible to do both. Also, contributing on the Dash Bash titles this year was a highlight too!

It was a dream project to work with Dash and have it be seen by so many creatives.

*Frame from Recess, a* *Boxfort* *short film.*

Bella:

What's it like working at Boxfort? Do you collaborate often with fellow freelancers?

Dave:

Working at Boxfort has been incredible, we have grown a lot in the last year and we have a lot of new creative energy. We do collaborate a lot by giving each other advice or suggestions. And we are also in the process of creating a handful

of new animated short films. We actually just released an animated short for the new Gunner School. You can check that out here.

Bella:

Do you have any advice for being stuck in a creative rut/how to get out of it?

Dave:

If I get stuck in a creative rut, I usually need to take a break from the screen and all technology. Taking a walk in the woods or a park helps me so much to give myself some clarity and motivation.

Music playlists that are made to get me motivated and stay creative help me a lot too. Also exercise a little will give your brain a boost. We like to play hacky Sack to break up the screen time. It gets your body moving and it's fun!

Bella:

Any final words of wisdom?

Dave:

Final words of wisdom would be to write down your projects/to do lists daily. Sketch ideas out instead of doom scrolling social media. Also, you should set aside a day to not be on the computer at least once a week.

Mack Garrison 11/28/23 Mack Garrison 11/28/23

Takeover Tuesday with Liz Klein DiBello

An interview with Liz Klein DiBello: a Brooklyn based designer, animator and creative director.

Interviewer: Bella Alfonsi

Read time: 5min

Bella:

Thanks for joining us for Takeover Tuesday, Liz! Can you please give us a lil' introduction?

Liz:

Thanks so much for having me in! I’m so happy to be a part of this!

I’m Liz Klein DiBello, and I’m a Brooklyn based designer, animator and creative director.

I come to motion design with a graphic design background, and it’s a part of everything I do. My work has focused on design-based motion projects like network rebrands and broadcast design, commercials and online videos, but has also included projects that focus more on a collage and texture-based approach which lends itself to projects like explainer videos, PSA’s and more.

Also, I just recently joined the incredibly talented team at Mighty Oak full time as Associate Creative Director!

Bella:

How did your career in motion design begin?

Liz:

From a young age I was always interested in anything related to drawing, painting and crafting, so I guess you could say it started there. There was a chest of drawers in my house filled with all sorts of crafting materials: different types of papers, scissors, pastels, crayons, markers and more (this is probably what started my interest in collage). When I got older and my family got their first computer, I got super into Photoshop and discovered graphic design. Later I found out that I could do this as my career, and that’s what made me pursue a design education.

But for motion design specifically, that part of my story started in school. I was going to the School of Visual Arts in New York for Graphic Design, and took Ori Kleiner’s intro to motion class Junior year. Motion design and After Effects was still relatively new at the time, and I loved the idea of bringing design to life and pairing it with music. Ori would show the class so many examples of great titles sequences and introduced us to the process of making motion graphics. I was super inspired by seeing how others were using this new tool. Senior year there was an option to specialize in motion design and I knew it was the right move for me. I decided to do a portfolio class with Ryan Moore.

During school I had always kind of been working, I was always very practical and really wanted to dive right into real life projects. I was interning at Nickelodeon, but I also started taking on a few freelance jobs here and there. One of my first motion design jobs was a book trailer that was all kinetic type, which was trending at the time.

After I graduated, I found my first full time job at The String Theory, a small studio in Manhattan that introduced me to so many different types of projects– anything from broadway commercials, to billboards in Times Square, explainer videos, lyric videos and so much more.

Bella:

With expertise in multiple areas, from illustration to art direction, is there a part of the creative process that you enjoy doing the most?

Liz:

The beginning of the creative process is always my favorite. I like to spend time upfront researching, learning, looking for inspiration, and exploring the different directions a project could go. What I find during this phase can help inform design decisions, and the look and feel of what I’m working on. There’s so much potential during this step.

Bella:

Do you have any advice for other artists trying to go full-time freelance?

Liz:

I have SO many freelance words of wisdom! One big one is that community is super important for many reasons- it will not only keep the jobs flowing, but there’s also an element of support that is there. There’s moments where you might feel isolated because you are flying solo. You’re going to have questions about rates, or the hold system, or maybe you just want to bounce an idea off of someone, but you don’t have co-workers anymore to do that with. Panimation NYC is one of those communities, and Dorca Musseb asked me last year to become an admin. It’s such a great space to provide all of those resources, plus just being a way to meet some genuinely cool people, and I’m happy to be a part of that.

Another piece of advice is boundaries during bookings- define them before you start looking for jobs, and stick to them. For example, how many hours does your rate include, 8, 10? What is your overtime rate, and when does that kick in?

Bella:

Where do you find inspiration? How do you combat creative burnout?

Liz:

Of course I’m constantly inspired by the many talented artists and studios in our community, but I try to look outside of the industry as well so I can get a fresh perspective. Some of the best inspiration can come from a trip I just took, an exhibition that I recently saw at a museum or gallery, or just walking around the streets of New York. Music has also always been a huge inspiration of mine– when I go to a concert, I always look forward to seeing what kinds of graphics are on the screen behind the band and what the merch looks like. Music can have such an impact on how something moves and looks.

Inspiration is also one way to fight burnout. Burnout is so real and so important to acknowledge. It’s important to get ahead of it and realize when it’s starting to happen and what your key signs are. For how to recharge, it’s kind of a balance between just stopping to relax fully physically and mentally, but creatively. For the physical/mental part, doing something away from the computer and devices is pretty key- like a hike in nature, or yoga.

Bella:

Your style is super fun and colorful. What would you tell someone who is trying to "find their own style"?

Liz:

Thank you! I would say to take note of what you enjoy working on the most, and try to do more of that. Your style will naturally evolve from there.

I’d also say my own style is still evolving, it’s a long road! So don’t get discouraged if you don’t have a “style” right away. Sometimes you can only see the pattern in your work by looking back at your past work and seeing the common threads.

Bella:

Do any of the projects you've worked on stand out as a favorite?

Liz:

I don’t know if it gets much better than DOGTV. I had always wanted to work on a network rebrand, and Andrea Pabalan and Darci Manely at thelab nyc approached me to art direct a rebrand for the streaming service.

I should explain that DOGTV is a streaming service for dogs– it keeps them occupied while their pet parents are out of the house, and is actually based on scientific research around reducing stress in dogs. The channel content is actually broadcast in colors that dog’s eyes can see. So it’s a fun project but also serves a helpful purpose.

Our team worked on an entirely new set of assets for the brand that could live on the streaming service, but also in print and digital too. We started with a new logo, typefaces, colors, tone of voice, custom patterns, illustrations, and a brand new photo and footage library. Then we took those elements, and created a new look and feel for the streaming service itself and its content– so everything from bumpers, to transitions and lower thirds, to a sample promo for one of the shows.

We wanted the look and feel to reflect the energetic and unique personalities of dogs, so we went super bold, colorful and poppy. Knowing this was a rebrand for a channel based around dogs, motion was always a huge part of this rebrand and would be something we kept gut checking ourselves against throughout the process. We knew everything we created had to feel like it had the right energy and a playfulness to it.

One of the most fun parts of the project was getting to have a two day photo and live action shoot with over 30 dogs. I made a lot of new furry friends!

Bella:

How do you make yourself stand out among other artists when pitching to a new client?

Liz:

For me it’s not about looking at it as a competition. It’s all about recognizing what you bring to the table and pointing out what makes you and your skills unique, and why and how those things would make the client’s project great. For me, it’s that I can wear many hats- I can design, animate, edit, illustrate, and direct. And I enjoy hopping into all of those roles!

Bella:

What's your proudest moment in your career thus far?

Liz:

I’m really proud of the projects that I work on that give back in some way and use design and animation to serve a greater purpose. I’ve now worked on a few projects that are centered around the importance of elections and voting, a cause that I deeply believe in. I was lucky enough to work on FiveThirtyEight’s The New Bellwethers series, which came out at the time of the 2016 election. Even though the election didn’t pan out as I had wanted, it felt good to be able to contribute to the conversation at that time. Another election based project I’ve gotten to work on recently with Mighty Oak is a spot for NYC Votes. We’re breaking down the process of how to vote to help get more people out there on election day.

And one more bonus proud moment- someone once got a tattoo of a logo that I made. I can’t believe someone liked my design so much that they wanted it with them forever! So that’s definitely up there with my top moments.

*Frame from FiveThirtyEight’s The Bellwethers series.*

Bella:

Are there any projects coming up that you're excited about?

Liz:

Right now I’m working on a series of collage-based videos for IBM, which I’m pretty excited about.

Thank you so much for the invitation again, it means so much to me. I really enjoy reading these interviews and it’s great to be a part of this series!

Mack Garrison 11/21/23 Mack Garrison 11/21/23

Takeover Tuesday with Alejandro Grima

An interview with Alejandro Grima: a freelance art director, motion designer and animator based in Madrid, working for start-ups, companies and agencies around the globe on projects big and small.

Interviewer: Matea Losenegger

Read time: 5min

Matea:

Hello! Thank you for taking time to participate in our series. Can you please introduce yourself and your work?

Alejandro:

Hi there! My name is Alejandro and I’m a Madrid-based motion designer and animator. I was once a jack-of-all-trades graphic designer that worked on digital design, packaging, branding and animation, but 7 years ago I specialized in motion graphics and I’ve been freelancing since.

I’ve been able to work with clients and studios around the globe, and not being restricted geographically and being able to meet people from different backgrounds are some of the things I enjoy the most about freelancing.

When I’m not playing around with keyframes in After Effects, I’m probably discovering new fancy coffee shops, running or taking photos.

Matea:

You have a lot of fun and striking vector work in your portfolio. How did you develop your design style?

Alejandro:

I didn’t really develop a style in a conscious way, I think it has more to do with the evolution of my career: I started out as a branding/digital graphic designer without a proper interest in illustration and maybe that’s how I was initially attached to using simple vectors (also due to the lack of more complex illustration skills). It was later on that I gained interest in more illustrative styles after meeting and working with illustrations, animating their work, and then trying to replicate what they were marvelously doing.

Having said this, I’m really happy that I come from a pure graphic design background, because it allows me to approach each project from a functional point of view and then go for the style that I think should work best. Versatility is key!

*A frame from Alejandro’s Lucidity Tech project.*

Matea:

On a similar note, I really love your logo and 36 days of type animations. Is there a secret sauce in creating precise and effective visuals?

Alejandro:

I would say trusting the process. I usually get to a result animation I’m happy with after following these three steps:

First, planning everything, doing quick sketches or a storyboard to visualize how everything is going to move.
Secondly, work on the movements, nailing the key poses and how every element interact with each other.
And last but not least, spending time working on the timings of every move, because many times a movement lasting ore or a few more/less frames can really make a difference in the end result.

Matea:

You've obviously honed your craft in Adobe Illustrator and After Effects. Are there any plugins or additional software you like to use in your work?

Alejandro:

Way to many, perhaps! But mainly Overlord (which I find crucial to effortlessly bridge between Illustrator and After Effects), and Duik, Key Cloner and Nudge for quicker and precise keyframe tweaking.

Penpal and Anubis also do come in handy.

*Some of Alejandro’s 36 days of Type explorations.*

Matea:

Where do you find inspiration- in and out of the art world?

Alejandro:

In regards to art related stuff, I enjoy going to exhibitions and having a look at anything that has to do with product design and architecture. I even have a dedicated architecture-focused Instagram account because I also love photography and these two subjects collide frequently.

Outside of the arts world, I think what inspires me the most is probably meeting people. I’m a shy person, so it isn’t always easy, but I actively try to push myself out of the comfort zone because I find discovering about other people’s lives, jobs and ways of thinking absolutely enriching.

Matea:

What was your favorite project you've worked on and why does it stand out to you?

Alejandro:

Probably the work I did for Lucidity. I got to learn a lot of really interesting stuff from their team, and they were all a delight to work with. They really know their product and are were able to contribute with interesting ideas while giving me absolute freedom to visualise the information at the same time and could work on some interesting animations and transitions.

Matea:

You've worked with an interesting variety of clients. What's your favorite type of client to work with?

Alejandro:

Definitely the clients that, because of the nature of the project, make you learn new stuff. For example, I worked on a couple of animation explainer videos not too long ago for a blockchain-based technology and a new pharma product, so in order to being able to translate the information into something visual you have to understand well how this technology works and how that medication affects the body. And, by the end of the day, you go to bed with knowing more interesting stuff than when you woke up.

Matea:

How do you fight burnout and stay motivated to create?

Alejandro:

For me, it’s a balance between routine and the unexpected. While exercising and meditation have become keystones of my mental health, I also try to fit as many activities involving new experiences in my schedule as possible. Be it seeing an exhibition, trying a new sport, getting lost around a part of the city you’ve never been to, or trying that fancy new cocktail bar you discovered last week.

Also, special mention to the occasional chatting with my creative friends Vivian, Lucía and Miguel over a cup of coffee. They’re incredibly inspiring people and their insight has got me out of a creative block more times than I can count (thanks guys!).

Matea:

Is there a type of animation you're interested in exploring?

Alejandro:

I’m always trying to learn new stuff but seeing so many talented people doing so many different things on social networks doesn’t really help with the fact that there are only so many hours in a day (ha!). So one can just set priorities, and my current priority is improving my frame-by frame animation skills. After this, I would love to start playing around with code and interactive animations.

*Motion for* *Wearebold* & *Somosmejor’s branding of OEI*

Matea:

Are there any upcoming projects you're excited to share this year?

Alejandro:

As for commissions, I’m particularly excited about the motion identity explorations I’m developing for a couple of design studios here in Spain. And in regards to personal/side projects, I’m working on my first short film that’s allowing me to explore new techniques. All I can say for now is that it’s about museums and some absurd things happening inside them ;)

Mack Garrison 11/11/23 Mack Garrison 11/11/23

Takeover Tuesday Veterans Day Edition with Jeffery Lawson

An interview with Jeffery Lawson: an Art director / Illustrator born and raised in NC who it a bit of a tactile tradesman , lover of all things nature and color.

Interviewer: Bella Alfonsi

Read time: 5min

Bella:

Thanks so much for joining us for Takeover Tuesday, Jeffery! Could you tell us about yourself?

Jeffery:

I am a Veteran, Art Director, Designer, and illustrator born and raised in North Carolina. Most of the work I love making is mixed with fun and a bit of thoughtfulness. I love printmaking and collecting vintage goosebumps books. I am a nature lover and 80’s horror movie aficionado and lover of all things spooky.

Bella:

How did you find your way into motion design? A bit of your background?

Jeffery:

That's a bit of an interesting story! Hold onto your seats, this one's a doozy. My journey into motion design looks like a bit of a treasure map with many points. In the early 2000’s I got started in design learning to be a screen printer and tattoo artist in my local area. Fast forward many moons later I ended up leaving my career in the military and going back to college to be a student.

*A frame from Jeff’s Logitech project with* *Demo Duck*.

Bella:

How was the transition from the military to being a student?

Jeffery:

It was by far one of the most challenging periods in my life. I like to call this my transition phase. My most memorable moment, which was the most challenging, was when I separated from the military on a Friday and Monday morning I was sitting inside a college classroom. It was a complete mental shock not only culturally but mentally as well. Having served in two combat zones made it a little harder given the difference between military life and civilian life. For example, there are strict timelines in the military, and transitioning to civilian life you no longer have those in place and must set them for yourself.

Bella:

What did you learn from being in the military that carries over into your career today?

Jeffery:

There are a few military lessons that I still carry with me but the most important comes from an old army leadership manual. For more about this topic, you can google the 4 c’s of army leadership.

Competence - This means being operationally and technically skilled at what the organization does. When one moves up their understanding of the entire process is far more important than technical skills.
Commitment- This means placing heart and soul not only into the organization but most importantly of all its people. For example, A great leader arrives an hour early and leaves an hour after the last team member clocks out. A committed leader takes the time to learn the habits of each team member and then leads them accordingly.
Candor - This means always being able to be candid at all levels regardless of position. Basically, it means being able to be honest about something regardless of how someone might feel.
Courage - This means having not only physical courage but moral courage to say and do what is right even if one must stand up to someone.

*One of several concepts chosen for a client pitch for Tango Analytics*

Bella:

What do you want to say to those who were in your shoes a few years ago?

Jeffery:

I'd tell them to reference an old proverb that goes like this “Seek and you shall find “. How this relates to your career is as follows.

1- Seek to fill the gap- There's a beautiful video series by Ira Glass that was shared with me called The Gap. In this video, he talks about going through a volume of work to fill the gap between where you are and where you want to be. My interpretation of this is something I always share with my mentees and I want to share it with you. In order to get where you are trying to go you have to fill this imaginary hole with things that are going to make you better. Examples of these things are tutorials, podcasts, lectures, meteors, personal work, feedback, and books.
2- Seek discipline - There's a great book out there that I've read several times called “Discipline Equals Freedom: Field Manual” by Jocko Willink which is essentially the key to filling the gap that I discussed above. The term discipline equals freedom applies to every aspect of your life and if you want more freedom you gotta get more discipline in your life.
3- Seek a village - There's a quote by the motivational speaker Jim Rohan that states that we are the average of the 5 people we spend our time with. My interpretation of this is that during my career so far I've befriended people who share similar values and beliefs as I do but who are also far more talented than me. By seeking a village of people who support you but who can also offer up honest advice it will help you see the chinks in your own armor and make you stronger.

Bella:

What are some of the techniques you use to create the work you do?

Jeffery:

A magician never tells his secrets, am I right? WRONG. To be super transparent I'm all over the place with techniques because I love exploring and experimenting. I will say that I consider myself a tactile tradesman of sorts. I enjoy integrating things that can be done using printed methods or by hand and merging them with digital aesthetics. For example, recently I had the pleasure of creating a title sequence project at Gunner School, and after brainstorming and pitching two directions I settled on one that used scanned-in elements from nature to emphasize the core elements of the movie.

*Art Direction Jeff provided for Prisidio vis* *Demo Duck*

Bella:

Do you have a favorite type of project to work on?

Jeffery:

This question is a bit of a hard one! In general, I have a deep appreciation for mixed media art. My interests span from collage to two-dimensional works and even dabble in a small touch of 3D. My preferred project styles can vary, but there's usually a common thread tying them together, and that's the element of enjoyment. Much of this passion is showcased on my website within a category I've named "TIDBITS," where I explore diverse artistic styles.

Bella:

You mentioned schooling and I see you recently attended Gunner School. What was that like?

Jeffery:

Attending Gunner School was a truly transformative experience. I had the privilege of exploring new ways of animation, thanks to the guidance and support of my peers and mentors. This opportunity encouraged my passion for learning and pushed me to unlock my potential. Through collaboration and hard work, I grew into a more confident and knowledgeable individual. This journey left a lasting impact on my life, opening doors to exciting possibilities and shaping my identity and outlook in profound ways.

Bella:

What are your goals for the next couple of years?

Jeffery:

Career:

1- Full-time employment with studio
2- Explore more creative styles of design
3- Publish a book on creative thinking

Personal:

1- Spend more time with family
2- Nurture more creatives
3- Watch more horror movies

Bella:

Was there ever a time when you didn't think breaking into Motion Design was even possible?

Jeffery:

Indeed, it's important to remember that every profession has its share of highs and lows, and taking that initial step can be quite challenging when embarking on any career journey. In my own experience, after graduating, I initially had a fantastic internship opportunity lined up, but unexpected circumstances threw a wrench in my plans. After this happened, luckily, I had the awesome support of a mentor whom I met through School of Motion to help me navigate such an event. Fast forward 8 months and with this person's help I had built a portfolio.

Bella:

Who are your personal heroes?

Jeffery:

Please bear with me as I share a touching story about my personal hero, Amanda Russell. Amanda is a Creative Director at CREAM Studio, and she is not only a highly accomplished professional but also an exceptional human being. Her boundless compassion has left an indelible mark on me that I try to emulate to others. Countless times, Amanda's unique blend of creativity and kindness has guided me through challenges in my own career that I couldn't have overcome on my own. In addition to her unwavering empathy, she serves as a deep wellspring of inspiration, embodying the qualities I deeply admire and aspire to cultivate in myself. Her steadfast commitment to creativity and the well-being of those around her should serve as a guiding light for anyone seeking a mentor in their career.

Bella:

Who are your personal heroes?

Jeffery:

Eddie: I was in the desert once, out in the middle of nowhere, absolutely nowhere. Just me, the sand, and silence. But if you know what to listen for, it ain’t silent out there. I heard a music out there I never heard before. In the silence. That’s what I’m after, kid. That’s intense. You dig down deep and touch something like that, people are gonna listen. They’ll listen to you because you got something to say! Not just something to show. You understand?

This quote comes from one of my favorite 80s movies called ‘Eddie and the Cruisers”. Sometimes you have to shut out all the noise of the world so you can hear your own internal voice. We all have an internal compass / creative voice we must listen to and when you add in the many distractions of the modern age it can get quite noisy. Enough to the point where you can't even discern what direction you should point your compass.

Mack Garrison 10/31/23 Mack Garrison 10/31/23

Takeover Tuesday with André Leite

An interview with André Leite: a motion designer and pizza lover from Brazil, currently living in Lisbon, Portugal.

Interviewer: Bella Alfonsi

Read time: 5min

Bella:

Thanks so much for joining us for Takeover Tuesday, Andre! Could you please give us a lil' intro?

André:

Hey there! I'm André Leite, a creative motion designer, punk rock enthusiast, and pizza lover, originally from Brazil, but currently rocking it in Lisbon, Portugal.

Bella:

How did your career in the motion industry start?

André:

This a long one…before diving into Motion, I went through various "fun" jobs. I worked at a skate shop, a tattoo studio, and also organizing music shows in Fortaleza (my hometown). By chance, in 2008, a friend invited me to work at a local TV network that only played music videos. I've always had a passion for videos and music, so when I saw the editing suites there, I thought to myself, "This is where I belong, sitting in the air conditioning (Fortaleza is crazy hot!) and editing MTV style segments - this is perfect!”

After learning how to edit, I started watching Andrew Kramer's videos and gradually transitioned from editing to VFX. I dived deeper into my studies through tutorials and books. In other words, I was completely self-taught on this journey.

I then began working at commercial production companies, where, in addition to editing and VFX, I was also required to animate texts, icons, packshots,

transitions, and more. It was there that I discovered the magical world of animation. Although I sometimes worked 14-18 hours a day and even slept several nights on an air mattress in the editing suite, I can say that this period was an intensive After Effects course. I faced all sorts of challenges and never had enough time. I struggled a lot, but I also learned a great deal.

After working some years at the top video production companies in Fortaleza, I moved to São Paulo, the land of opportunities. If you stand still for too long on street corner in São Paulo, a job might just fall and hit your head. After a while, throught networking, agencies and studios were constantly calling me to create explainer videos, which I loved because I found working with animation is much more enjoyable than VFX. I became a freelancer and never looked back. After a few of years, I wanted to challenge myself so, I bought "The Animator's Survival Kit" and focused my studies on character animation. And that's what I continue to do to this day.

Bella:

With over 10 years of experience in the industry, how do you feel it has changed over time?

André:

Definitely, the amount of information and softwares is crazy now! Back when I started was challenging to find study materials, especially for those who didn't speak English. It was very rare to come across another motion designer. Nowadays, if you open a pack of cereal, you might even find a motion designer as prize…

Motion design has become incredibly popular. Every client wants or already has a motion video for their company. With each passing day, there is new information and techniques to study. At the same time, I really feel motion design has evolved into a vast international community, where practically anyone can participate, whether they're working in the field or simply appreciating the work. And events such as OFFF or Dash Bash really help to consolidate this sense of Community.

Bella:

What's the animation scene like in Portugal? Are your clients mostly there or do you find yourself working more internationally?

André:

When I arrived here in 2017, I was primarily working for the Portuguese market. It was great! I made a lot of networking connections, friends, and learned a lot. However, Portugal is a small country, and there aren't many clients with big budgets. So, gradually, I started seeking international clients to not solely depend on the local market. In my case, nowadays, I would say that I work 25% for Portugal and 75% overseas.I believe the studios here are doing the same, increasingly looking for international clients.

An undeniable fact about Portugal is the abundance of talent—there's truly a lot of it! However, when these talents are unable to work remotely, they often move to countries that offer better pay. Overall, I feel that with each passing year, the motion community in Portugal is stronger and more competitive.

Bella:

What's your process like for animating characters? What's your favorite thing about character animation?

André:

I'm a rebel who likes to do everything within After Effects, including the illustration, if possible. And I stick to the basic principles of animation.

I normally start by creating simple key poses, sometimes using "stick paths" just to understand what kind of rig I'll need. Once I have a simple rig for the character, I begin animating the in-between frames, and only then do I add details like lighting, shadows, and textures. I usually leave the animation of the head/face for last, I'm not sure why, probably it's just a habit.

Without a doubt what I enjoy the most is the challenge of always doing something new, either animating different art styles or trying out a new character movement that I've never done before. It constantly requires me to put my brain to work, figuring out how to achieve it, and it never gets boring.

Bella:

You've worked in so many different fun styles. Is there one you enjoy the most?

André:

To be honest, I don't have a preferred style, I simply enjoy animating. Nowadays, I have been able to choose

my projects with more aesthetic consideration, which is great! In the past, I animated numerous stock image characters, but now I tend to collaborate with illustrators who have their own unique style. In addition to character animation, I'm particularly drawn to animating technology videos in a UX/UI style, with all that gradients and abstract shapes, I love it!

*Gif from the “Make your Flag Green” project.*

Bella:

Is there a project you've worked on that stands out as a favorite to you?

André:

Yes! I’ve a project that is very dear to me, and surprisingly, it's a video without any characters. What makes me love this video so much is that it was created from scratch - script to final video by myself, my wife, and my former business partner— a very small team. We had limited time and resources, but it was a lot of fun to work on and it gained quite a lot of views on social media.

Here's the link for anyone who wants to check it out.

Bella:

When you find yourself in a creative rut, how do you get out of it? What or who inspires you?

André:

Well, I strive to remain in a perpetual state of motion, keeping myself updated both online and in the so-called "real world," although who knows if we're already in the Matrix after all these AI advancements. I go to museums, concerts, and industry conferences to seek

inspiration too. Sometimes, I observe people, like people riding bicycles on the streets, and that becomes a source of inspiration for animating a character. I’ve always been very observant, so be careful not to become a reference in my work!

Bella:

What's the proudest moment in your career thus far?

André:

The first time I worked for a major studio outside of Brazil I really felt like I had broken a barrier. After opening that door, international clients started coming one after another, leading to cooler projects, working with big teams and renowned brands.

Bella:

Any final words of advice or projects coming up this year that you're excited about you'd like to share?

André:

Firstly, I would like to thank Dash for the invitation and acknowledge this initiative that, in my opinion, adds a lot to our community. Thank you!! \o/

A piece of advice for everyone starting in this field is to remember that it's not enough to master all the software. We must realize that a significant part of the work is communication. Often, the biggest challenge is understanding what the client truly wants and finding the best way to convey the message. Sometimes, it's something simple, yet powerful. What I mean is that having good communication with your client is more

valuable than spending nights trying to create something overly complex that isn't what the client desires but rather what you want.

Recently, I was invited to animate Colonel Sanders from KFC, which was awesome, because he is such a recognizable character. It was a super complex photo-collage project, but at the same time, a lot of fun. We are still working on the Behance page, but here is the final video. I hope you enjoy it:

Mack Garrison 1/2/23 Mack Garrison 1/2/23

Takeover Tuesday Andy Evans

An interview with Andy Evans: an independent Motion Designer with a strong focus on 3D & Art Direction.

Q&A with Andy Evans.

Read time: 2min

Mack Garrison:

Thanks for participating in our Tuesday Takeover, Andy. For those that are unfamiliar with you and your work, can you tell us a bit about yourself?

Andy Evans:

Hey, thanks for inviting me to this! I’m Andy Evans, a freelance motion designer based in Reading, UK. I went freelance a month before the pandemic struck which was beautifully timed but I’ve been busy ever since. These days my work has transitioned over from 2D to 3D projects but I still call myself a generalist.

Mack Garrison:

Your 3d work is so fun! How did you initially get into the animation space?

Andy Evans:

Thanks! I’ve always been into drawing from a young age and I grew up watching Cartoon Network and Nickelodeon in the 90s. Fast forward 20 years and I started to grow an interest in graphic design. I went on to study this in which one of the modules was motion graphics. At the same time, I discovered Andrew Kramer’s videos on YouTube and it spiralled from there. After graduating, I worked at a few studios and agencies in London surrounded by incredibly talented people who knew 3D inside out. I would always pester them and ask the most basic and mundane questions, but I learnt so much.

*Collection of shots from Andy’s “play” page on his website.*

Mack Garrison:

Are there certain types of projects that you love to work on? What makes a good client?

Andy Evans:

My favourites are always the ones where there’s lots of room for creative freedom. When the client understands the process and enjoys the outcomes, it always ends up becoming such a positive and fun experience.

Mack Garrison:

Tell us a bit about your process, how do you approach a creative challenge?

Andy Evans:

I try and keep as open-minded as possible during the early stages while sticking to the fundamentals of graphic design. I then sketch these ideas out on paper before bringing them into the digital scene. At the same time, depending on deadlines, I need to be considerate of how long things can take as 3D always takes longer than you think! .

Mack Garrison:

I love the "Play" page on your website. How important is play in a creative workflow and how often do you get the chance to mess around?

Andy Evans:

Thanks! I think it’s very important to have some fun. With some projects, there are restrictions on brand guidelines but I always try and bend the rules. On the other hand, projects can be so open that messing around is to be expected! There’s nothing more satisfying than putting your stamp on something.

*Work Andy did for Adele’s performance at Hyde Park.*

Mack Garrison:

It's hard to pick one project as a favorite, but do you have any that stick out as being really fun?

Andy Evans:

I recently was lucky enough to work on the visuals for Adele’s concert at London’s Hyde Park this summer. I was surrounded by so many talented people which made the process so much fun. The energy and enthusiasm from the team were electric!

Mack Garrison:

Knowing what you know now, what advice would you give to aspiring creatives?

Andy Evans:

Never stop learning! Keep experimenting and try new things. Don’t feel pressured by social media to compare yourself to others. Just be yourself :)

Mack Garrison:

What do you think the future of Motion Design looks like? Anything you're particularly interested in exploring?

Andy Evans

The fast development of A.I. has been seismic in the past year. Every week there seems to be another company that’s flexing its AI muscles which is fascinating to see. I have started dabbling with it for ideas so I’ll continue to explore that.

Mack Garrison:

Any upcoming projects or personal endeavors you're really excited about?

Andy Evans:

I’m currently working on something that involves boring everyday objects but is portrayed in a fun and unexpected way. Watch this space!

Mack Garrison:

Thanks so much for the great chat, Andy! And for the folks reading this, make sure to check out Andy’s site!

Mack Garrison 4/18/22 Mack Garrison 4/18/22

Takeover Tuesday with Marta Azaña

An interview with Marta Azaña: a freelance 2D animator and motion designer..

Q&A with Marta Azaña.

Read time: 5min

Mack Garrison:

Hey, Marta! Thanks so much for participating in our Tuesday Takeover series. For those unfamiliar with you or your work, let's start with an introduction - who are you and what do you create?

Marta Azaña:

Hi! Thanks so much for having me at Takeover Tuesday. I’m Marta Azaña and I’m a freelance 2D animator based in the South West of England. I’m a big fan of bright and retro-y colours and I tend to apply these to my animations, usually pretty abstract and sometimes featuring typography or characters (and bikes!).

Mack Garrison:

How did you originally get into the motion design space? Did you have formal training or were you self taught?

Marta Azaña:

I have grown up in a creative family - Before retiring, my dad directed TV commercials and both my mum and dad are also photographers. I remember going to the sets with my dad practically my whole life and I wanted to be a filmmaker too! But I also loved graphic design and illustration. I studied Media in uni, eventually specialising in video editing. To improve my videos, I started to watch a lot of After Effects tutorials on Youtube to create nice looking intros, title sequences, etc. And that’s when I discovered that motion graphics was a thing and it was actually what I wanted to do as a career.

I didn’t study anything related to motion graphics in uni so I’m mostly self taught (I did take an After Effects and Cinema 4D course eventually). Then did two motion design internships in Madrid, Spain.

*Biker study from a broader collection of .gifs*

Mack Garrison:

I saw you moved to Bristol from Madrid, what was the reason for the move?

Marta Azaña:

When I finished uni in Madrid in 2013 it was recession times and the youth unemployment at that moment was around 55% (the worst year!). After two internships no one hired me and it was suuuper hard to get a junior role so I started to get a bit frustrated and I felt like I wanted a change of scenery for a little while. I also thought it would be a good opportunity to improve my portfolio. I had friends in the UK so I went to live with them while looking for motion graphics & animation jobs. I ended up in Bristol where I did….. another internship! haha this one at least was the most productive one, I learned a lot of animation stuff thanks to my good friend Matt Wilson who also was incredible patient with me & my English. After that internship I got a full time job at Bait Studio in Cardiff (where I lived for a few months) and, after that, at Hungry Sandwich in Leeds (this time remotely). I have been a full time freelancer since 2018.

Mack Garrison:

What's the animation scene like in Bristol, UK? Are most of your clients in the UK or do you find yourself working more internationally?

Marta Azaña:

When I moved to the UK in 2014 I didn’t know anything about Bristol. Maybe I had heard the one thing or two when I lived in Spain but I moved there blindly which is kind of what I wanted. I instantly fell in love with the city and I was so surprised by how big the animation and creative scene in general was. There were a lot of animation studios and this was 8 years ago… the population has pretty much doubled up since so you can imagine the number of freelancers and studios these days (still quite impressive considering Bristol’s population in 2022 is 700k!).

When I started freelancing I worked with Bristol studios mostly. Nowadays I work with UK and international clients.

Mack Garrison:

It seems like everyone is moving freelance these days. What's something you wish you knew before making that decision yourself?

Marta Azaña:

When I started freelancing I used to feel a lot of anxiety when I finished a gig and while I was waiting for the next one to happen, even though I had been earning more money than I would do if I worked full time. It might have only been a couple of days wait haha but I felt really nervous and I often ended up accepting whatever came next, even if it wasn’t really interesting, just because I wanted to see myself busy. 5 years later I can see there’s definitely plenty of freelance jobs and I feel way more relaxed about not having bookings. In fact, I take way more time off than before and I use it to work on personal projects or just spend more time outdoors, riding my bike and being away from my computer.

I also used to feel guilty about not posting enough personal animations on social media while I didn’t have any client work on. Seems like when you’re a freelancer there’s a lot of pressure to always do something that feels productive or work related and constantly share it with the world, but at least in my case, I found that pressure pretty counterproductive. I love to work on my own animations and experiment when I have time off, but it’s ok not to feel in the mood for it. I find that when I’m in the mood I enjoy it sooo much more, there’s no point to force ourselves in to it.

Mack Garrison:

What's been your favorite part of freelancing?

Marta Azaña:

As cliche it might sound, I love having a better balance between work and life and also the variety of projects and clients I’ve got to work with. In my opinion, one of the most rewarding things is when you work with a client for the first time and they want to hire you for a second, third time, etc. You don’t really get to experience that while working full time.

Mack Garrison:

Have you found any tips or tricks to landing clients?

Marta Azaña:

When I went full time freelance, I reached out to some studios to get my first projects and since then, the word of mouth has worked very well. My advice would be to enjoy every project as much as possible, even if it’s a small one - The more motivation, the better the results and the communication with the client, which could lead to more future potential projects. Also keeping in touch with lots of different freelancers through social media, platforms like Discord or attending to events (I’ve enjoyed going to Blend and OFFF and I’ve met a few people that way too).

Mack Garrison:

Your portfolio looks great and I'm sure it's hard to just choose one, but do you have a favorite project you could tell us about?

Marta Azaña:

here are so many I’ve enjoyed working on, but the 36 Days of Type 2018 I got to do with Meghan Spurlock meant a lot professionally and personally. Also during the pandemic I got to work on some animated scenes for a documentary called “Meat me halfway” with a Bristol studio called Yoke. That was pretty different to everything I’ve done so far and I realised I would love to do more animations for documentaries or short journalistic pieces.

Mack Garrison:

I'm sure there are a lot of animators who look up to you, so I'm curious, who are some motion designers you've always looked up to?

Marta Azaña:

There are sooo many! As I mentioned above, when I was a student I spent A LOT of time on Youtube and Vimeo (good times!) watching tutorials and looking for inspiration and the first person I remember coming across was Jorge Canedo when he shared the projects he did at Vancouver Film School. When above I said “that’s when I discovered that motion graphics was a thing and it was actually what I wanted to do as a career” what I really meant is that Jorge made me want to be an animator haha. I felt soo inspired and since then, the other people that have made me feel the same way have been Andrew Vucko, Yukai Du, Jordan Scott, Bee Grandinetti or Will Rose.

Mack Garrison:

Any final thoughts you'd like to share with our audience?

Marta Azaña:

To anyone who wants to make a career as a motion designer, I’d say keep experimenting and learning, but NEVER feel pressured by social media or compare yourself to others, the main goal should always be to enjoy. When you enjoy and stay motivated, everything else finds its way.

Thank you for this opportunity to show and talk about my work!

Mack Garrison 3/28/22 Mack Garrison 3/28/22

Takeover Tuesday with Caibei Cai

An interview with Caibei Cai: designer and animator who lives in Shenzhen, China.

Q&A with Caibei Cai

Read time: 3min

Mack Garrison:

Hi, Caibei! Let's start at the beginning: how did you start your career in animation?

Caibei Cai:

I studied animation during my undergraduate, and after I received MA Animation degree from Royal College of Art, I started working as a freelancer. I have made some advertisements, music videos and visual designs, sometimes I also curate programs for the animation weeks.

Mack Garrison:

What's the animation scene like in Shenzhen? Is it a pretty big community?

Caibei Cai:

Shenzhen is a city with many Internet companies, animation is usually used for the APP or games. Normally, they would like to choose conservative artistic styles to cater to the public taste. So it is quite difficult to get a suitable project for me.

Mack Garrison:

Do you mainly work with local clients or do you collaborate internationally?

Caibei Cai:

I often collaborate with some agencies in Shanghai and Beijing. I haven’t worked with foreign agencies before, and I’m willing to try it.

Mack Garrison:

Your style is very unique! The textural and organic approach provides a really tactile feel in a digital space. How did you develop this approach?

Caibei Cai:

Thank you! Seeing can mean touching the texture of a thing as people can see roughness and smoothness. Our eyes can feel the coarse edge of the paper, the smooth silk or the sticky oil bottle. So what I trying to do is invite the audience to touch my film through their eyes. But not passively following the storyline or fully understanding the meaning of the film. For me, the film is like a body, you could feel its’ breath, skin, hair instead of dissecting it’s muscle or organ inside.

Mack Garrison:

Could you tell us a little bit about your process? How do you come up with ideas for a project?

Caibei Cai:

I am very interested in people’s emotions, especially anxiety. Half Asleep talks about a silent relationship, Pining is the unobtainable feeling and the clocks in my room stops is about the insomnia experience. In the pre-production of Half Asleep, I created a linear story, but I only kept the emotion and removed every specific plot. It is similar to the force triggers tactile, you can’t see the actual force but you could feel the physical changing. As for me, the story plot is similar to the force, which let the audience could feel the changing emotion, so I tried to hide the plot but only left the emotion in the film. Besides, Havelock Ellis mentioned that Touch is the most irrational and emotional in the five senses. So showing the tactile could also enhance the emotional expression in the film.

Mack Garrison:

I noticed you've received Vimeo Staff Picks for Half Asleep, Pining, and The Clock in my Room Stops; congrats! Do you have a favorite of those three? Why or why not?

Caibei Cai:

I don’t have the favourite one, because I always looking forward to my next film, and I’ve just finished an animation short film called Silver Cave, which is about the hunt, domestication and desire.

Mack Garrison:

How long does it typically take to make this style of animation? Is coming up with the idea the hardest part of bringing your vision to life?

Caibei Cai:

Most of my animation is drawn frame by frame, drawing on paper allows me to touch every frame in the film. But it is really time-consuming. I would like to share the working process of Half Asleep. First, I drew all the movement on the paper with charcoal or soft pastel...

*I projected the animation on fabric and recorded it.*

*Finally, I printed the frames out and re-coloured them.*

*And when I made the logo intro for the BlackFin Production, I drew the frame by colour pencils, and then scan the frames, finally printed it on the waterslide transparent paper.*

Mack Garrison:

What's your proudest professional moment so far?

Caibei Cai:

Probably is the moment I got a tattoo of 1920 X 1080 on my arm.

Mack Garrison:

Any advice you'd like to give the next generation of animators?

Caibei Cai:

Eat well, sleep well, play well, and draw well!

Mack Garrison 3/22/22 Mack Garrison 3/22/22

Takeover Tuesday with Nol Honig

An interview with Nol Honig: director, designer and animator who lives in New York City.

Q&A with Nol Honig

Read time: 5min

Mack Garrison:

Hey, Nol! Thanks so much for taking the time to hop on a Tuesday Takeover; I've been a big fan of yours for a while. For those who are not familiar with you or your work, could you tell us about yourself?

Nol Honig:

Hi Mack - thanks for the kind words, and for inviting me to participate in this excellent series! Really glad to be here and in the company of so many others I admire.

My name is Nol and I’m a director, designer and animator who lives in New York City. I’ve been freelancing as a motion designer since the late 1990s, which makes me OG. At this point I’d say that I’m best-known for photo-driven, mixed-media “collage” animation, as well as for teaching After Effects Kickstart at School of Motion. Hello everyone!

Mack Garrison:

How did your career begin? Did you always know you wanted to be in the motion world or did it take a little more luck than that?.

Nol Honig:

It took a lot of luck!

My parents were both very artistic, and encouraged me to be creative from early on. So right there, that’s extremely lucky. I was really into drawing and painting and all the usual stuff, but when I was seven years old Star Wars came out and after that I became fascinated with visual effects, stop motion, photography, and optical trickery. For me, that’s pretty much where it all started. I was also pretty lucky to have an older brother who got seriously into ‘home computing’ in the early 80s, and so I grew up feeling comfortable around computers ahead of a lot of other kids of my generation.

As a teenager I really wanted to be an indie filmmaker like Jim Jarmusch, Spike Lee, or the Coen Brothers, so after making a lot of 16mm films in college I applied to NYU for an MFA like all of those guys. And I was lucky to get in. When I was there I was really drawn to editing and post production, and volunteered to cut my thesis film on the film department’s first ‘non-linear’ (aka, computer) editing system — an AVID, which the department had just gotten that semester. Spending a few months working on a film project on a computer, and having to learn new software, was a big turning point for me.

I graduated in 1996 and while working in film production, I found myself much more interested in learning the newest software from Adobe called After Effects that had come out in the last year or so. I know it sounds obvious now, but at the time After Effects was the missing piece of the puzzle that allowed me to combine my love of filmmaking, design, animation, storytelling, staying indoors, and technology together in a way that just clicked for me. Still, there was no coherent motion design community at that time, and I worked in various production and post-production roles for many years — including directing a number of music videos for indie bands like Guided By Voices and Apples In Stereo.

My entryway into full time motion freelancing also happened as a result of luck. Somehow I had talked my way into working as an editor for a company that was producing commercials for then Senator John Kerry, who was running for President at the time. And after a few days I convinced them that I should be making commercials for them in After Effects, and not AVID. I made a ton of spots for the campaign that way, and even though John Kerry lost, I became a one-man freelance graphics department for this company. Fast forward many years, and that’s how I wound up as a lead animator for President Obama’s team in 2012.

*Fireside History with Michael Beschloss*

Mack Garrison:

You've got a really impressive resume of clients: Golden Wolf, Elastic, Buck, Pentagram, Hornet, Block & Tackle, PepRally, Ranger & Fox, Gretel, and let's not forget winning a Martin Scorsese Post Production Award! Tell us a little about that.

Nol Honig:

Well, the Martin Scorsese Post Production Award was something I won for my thesis film at NYU — specifically for the editing. I didn’t get to meet the great man, but as part of the award I was required to write him a letter of thanks. Not much of a story there. I believe the award was $300.

But yeah, in terms of studios … I’m super lucky to have worked with so many excellent teams over the years. As a senior freelancer, I appreciate great producers so much. They work tirelessly to make everything run smoothly, and often don’t get much credit or attention. For people entering the industry, remember: Creative Directors inspire, but Producers hire. Be nice to them, be honest about your calendar and the way you estimate your time, and always make sure to credit everyone on the team if you post about your work — including the producers.

Mack Garrison:

You're a creator and a teacher. What led you to the education side of motion design. Do you prefer one more than the other?

Nol Honig:

I wouldn’t say I prefer teaching over animating, but I will say that being a good teacher is much harder than being a good animator. At least for me. People are more complex than keyframes.

Honestly, I got into it by accident. In 2000 a friend recommended me for a job teaching a class called “Broadcast Design” at Parsons School of Design. I got hired on the spot because I knew After Effects, even though I had no prior teaching experience. But in the end I taught at Parsons for 18 years and in 2017 I won a Distinguished Teaching Award for my contributions to the school. And I’m still in touch with a number of very talented people who I first met as students and are now working in all corners of the industry.

Even better, I had the great luck to team up with School of Motion in 2017 to create their foundation class After Effects Kickstart. I am so proud of that class, and couldn’t be happier that I partnered with such great people.

Mack Garrison:

I see you also do some writing as well. How important is it for creative to be able to write in your opinion? Any tips or tricks to being a better writer?

Nol Honig:

Being a good writer is very important, in my opinion. It helps me make good first impressions over email with people who want to hire me. It helps me win pitches for new work. And it helps me promote that work.

My advice is to remember that writing and editing are separate tasks. Both are necessary, but write first and then edit second if you can help it. And don’t skip the editing part.

Mack Garrison:

Tell us a bit about "The Drawing Room." Where does the name come from and why not just go by Nol Honig?

Nol Honig:

Traditionally, a drawing room is where the owner of a house, perhaps with a guest, could ‘withdraw’ for more privacy. For me, that’s where I want to work. In that private, relaxed space, maybe with a friend.

But the reason I don’t work under my own name is just mostly for tax reasons, as boring as that sounds.

Mack Garrison:

Looking ahead, what do you think the future of Motion Design looks like?

Nol Honig:

Laser-guided keyframes.

Mack Garrison:

Any final takeaways?

Nol Honig:

Generally — figure out what works best for you, and then work in that direction. If you want to be a better designer, find sources of visual inspiration outside of motion design. If you want to be a better animator, observe the world intentionally.

Also ... if everyone is doing X, do Y. But that’s just me.

Guest User 3/8/22 Guest User 3/8/22

Takeover Tuesday with Allen Laseter

An interview with Allen Laseter: an animator, designer, and director making stuff for brands and studios around the world.

Q&A with Allen Laseter

Read time: 5min

Mack Garrison:

Allen! Thanks so much for taking the time to chat with us for this week's Tuesday Takeover. For those who are not familiar with you or your work, could you give us a little intro and creative background?

Allen Laseter:

Thanks for having me. I am an animator/illustrator type, now working as Creative Director along with my wife and business partner Lindsey Laseter for our very newly formed studio, Lasso.

My background is really more in the live action world. I went to a small art school in Nashville where I still live and work and studied film, concentrating mostly on directing and cinematography, but the school was small and scrappy enough that you really were able to learn how to do everything, which in retrospect was a massive bonus.

My dream at that time was to make narrative films as a director, but when I graduated, reality set in and I started my career freelancing around town working on sets, editing, occasionally “directing” tiny commercials for local businesses, and trying my best to make non-commercial short films and other weird projects with friends.

I was doing this for a couple years until my friend who was really into After Effects and an all around technical wizard passed on a motion graphics type of job to me that he was not able to take on. The school I’d gone to didn’t have any sort of motion or even VFX program, but I’d picked up some After Effects tips from him and had made some stuff for fun just poking around on my own time. I decided to take on the project with my incredibly limited knowledge, and realized quickly how little ill-equipped I was. However, I was forced to learn a lot on the project very quickly, and by the end, I realized that I really liked working this way and wanted to seek out more of this kind of work.

This was still in the first half of the 2010’s when Vimeo had what felt like a really thriving and active motion community, and I was lucky enough to, over time, fall into a network and gradually improve my skills and find work until I had worked out a pretty nice freelance groove, working with various studios around the country as a remote animator, and occasional designer. I kept working on my chops until I began to pursue directing, and eventually got the crazy idea to form a studio!

Mack Garrison:

You've worked on a lot of fun projects over the years, but I'd love to know which have been some of your personal favorites.

Allen Laseter:

The first one that comes to mind is the first project I did for Ted-Ed on the topic of the Hedonic Treadmill framed around the scenario of Winning the Lottery and how it affects your happiness long term. I think this was the first time I had the opportunity to create a project from scratch, aside from the script which was supplied to me, and really approach a client project with a director’s mindset, in terms of really shaping how the overall piece would feel to an audience. It was also by far the longest thing I’d made, being over 4 minutes long. I think this project in particular gave me a big boost in my freelance career.

*TED-Ed: Will winning the lottery make you happier?*

Another memorable one for me was a short spot I did for Lagunitas as part of their “Mumblephone” series. The task was to take a voice mail that had been left on the company's customer feedback phone line and create an animation to it. That was basically the entire brief and I was allowed to do just about anything I wanted, which is rare and one of my favorite things. It was one of the early times where I got to really be adventurous and imaginative as well as really focus on a narrative for a client project.

Mack Garrison:

A lot of folks look up to you as a creative leader so I'd love to know who you look up to?

Allen Laseter:

That’s a really nice thought! This may sound like a cop out, but I look up to tons of people, from people who I know well to some I’ve never even met, and I hate to leave anyone out, so I will purposefully keep this short and limit it to our niche of the industry and name Zac Dixon and Sam Cowden who founded IV Studio here in Nashville. I look up to them for their rare mix of creativity and business ambition. They manage to seemingly keep their studio insanely busy with both client and self initiated projects alike and are extremely successful in both areas which is a huge inspiration to me.

Mack Garrison:

Our industry has been growing like crazy and we have more freelancers than we've ever had before. Any words of wisdom you could share with the next generation of creators? Things you wished you knew as a freelancer?

Allen Laseter:

When you get stuck or run into a problem that you can’t figure out on your own, tell someone quickly instead of burning time trying in vain to figure it out yourself for the sake of your ego. This was a big temptation early in my career and it never worked out well.

Be nice to people, even if they annoy you. It’s still a pretty small field. This will help from a business perspective and from a human perspective.

Hire a cpa.

Mack Garrison:

You and your wife Lindsey recently started a new studio called Lasso which is so exciting! What was the reason for the transition from freelancer to studio owner?

Allen Laseter:

Before Lindsey and I officially decided to start building our studio, I had personally been at a point for a while where I felt like I was ready to move on to something new, but wasn’t sure what. I had been freelancing for a while and enjoyed it but the thing I always craved was more influence over the entire process. I tried going the director route for a little bit and worked with a few different reps, but ultimately nothing ever really worked out all that well.

I was already feeling this in early 2020 and the biggest push in this direction came in March when the pandemic took over everything and we locked down and began to figure out how to work in the same space while raising our daughter and learning how to balance all the new things that stemmed from that. We also just happened to be beginning to collaborate on a project together for the first time ever, even though we were still independent freelancers. These experiences made us realize that, while we had to learn a new way of communicating (and are still learning it) we actually worked pretty well together and that our skill sets overlap very nicely and allow us to do work that we think is unique from a lot that is out there.

*Some thumbnails from Allen’s portfolio*

Mack Garrison:

What are you hoping to accomplish in the studio space that you weren't able to do as a freelancer?

Allen Laseter:

The main things for me are having more control over what work I take on, more influence over the end result of the work, higher quality/bigger scope projects that become possible when leading teams (as opposed to just working by myself which I’ve often done in the past) and finally, focusing more on actual directing skills, which was kind of my original goal back in film school, just in a different environment.

Mack Garrison:

What do you think the future holds for our industry? Anything in particular you're excited about or things that worry you?

Allen Laseter:

As things become more and more digital, I think that will create more and more opportunity for our kind of work. In particular, I’m excited about what this means for brand identities as this is the main focus for our studio, Lasso. In an increasingly digital space, it’s less and less necessary for a brand’s visual identity to be thought of as static first. It’s interesting to think of a brand in terms of its potential to be a changing and dynamic thing, which is what we are trying to do at Lasso.

On the other hand, and from a more zoomed out perspective, I worry about the increasing percentage of our lives that are spent in the digital realm and I think we should all go outside way more!.

Mack Garrison:

Last but not least, any new projects or creative endeavors we should be on the lookout for?

Allen Laseter:

Lasso will finally be launching a portfolio in mid-March, so keep an eye out for that!

Guest User 2/21/22 Guest User 2/21/22

Takeover Tuesday with Kai Kundler

An interview with Kai Kundler, a Berlin born, Frankfurt based Motion Designer and Art Director.

Q&A with Kai Kundler

Read time: 5min

Madison Caprara:

Hi, Kai! Why don’t you start us off with an introduction to yourself? What originally drew you to the creative industry and how did you find yourself where you are today?

Kai Kundler:

Hey! My name is Kai and I am a Motion Designer and Art Director currently based in Frankfurt, Germany. I also love drawing, and I try to bring it into my work as much as possible, whether in personal projects or in my creative daily life. Right now I work a lot for the automotive and motorsport sector.

My creative career began quite conventionally: as a child, I loved to draw and return continually after breaks. The love of drawing evolved into a general lust for art, which led to graffiti and, eventually, design..

Madison Caprara:

I’m not sure I’ve asked this question in previous Takeover Tuesday interviews, but I’m curious. What is it about motion design that you love? Can you remember what the original draw of it was for you personally?

Kai Kundler:

My intention was never to become a motion designer, but like many others, I grew into it. Since I was a kid, I have been a big fan of cartoons and Disney Classics. From a young age, this moved and influenced me. My four-year-old heart was broken by the Mufasa Scene in The Lion King. However, my passion for motion design has grown over the years. I wanted to be an illustrator at first, but then I switched to a more traditional digital designer focus until I discovered my passion for motion design. I was hooked after trying more 2d and 3d animation and knew this is what I wanted to do. I still enjoy creating and watching anything that moves on the screen. I've always been curious about new things and love experimenting with them.

Madison Caprara:

You’re based in Frankfurt, correct? How’s the creative industry? Do you find yourself working more with home-based or international clients? Has the pandemic affected workflow much?

Kai Kundler:

In general, I believe that the creative community is a very open and straightforward one. You run into each other at festivals, talks, and award ceremonies. You usually know each other from a variety of settings or share friends, acquaintances, or coworkers. When you don't know each other, then you will surely meet at a later point in time. It makes little difference whether you live in Frankfurt, Berlin, London, or New York. I have also had the honor of working only with open-minded and easy-going people in this business.

The creative industry has always been a fast-paced one. This was also obvious during the pandemic: it was one of the first industries to be severely impacted, and it was also one of the first to recover and pick up again. Frankfurt has always had a strong international connection as a result of its proximity to financial clients and trade fair events. In general, I work with both international and national clients. Due to the fact that big network agencies are also based here, there is always a strong exchange with other international hotspots.

Of course, the pandemic has changed a lot of our lives. Working from home requires agencies and studios to become even more digital and adaptable. People are used to collaborating in a single location. You sit across from each other or are in meeting rooms. You have offered your support when you have noticed that colleagues need help. We have all worked with teams, slack, dropbox or whatever before. However, in the office, we had many more opportunities to communicate spontaneously or keep up. Now you have to be more active to know what your colleagues are doing, to exchange thoughts, or to see how they are doing.

Madison Caprara:

How do you think the German design industry compares to that of the U.S.?

Kai Kundler:

In general, I believe the design industries in Germany and the United States are similar, but there are differences in influences. Shared influences enable an exchange in Europe, whether it's the German Bauhaus, the rich art history, or the nearby influence of Swiss Design, De Stijl from the Netherlands, Russian constructivism, or even the strong cultural and art history from France or the UK.

It is always dependent on the project or the client. In other words, Germany can appear formal and impersonal at times. This is already present in the German language, as we have a polite and a more personal form of address. This is less prominent in English, making it appear much more relaxed and simple. Until now, it has frequently been the case in Germany that the safer, formal option was chosen over trying something new. But you can also sense a shift here; this is becoming softer, and there is a lot more experimentation going on, both in national and international projects.

The US market appears to be considerably faster-paced and more zeitgeisty. Furthermore, one must not overlook the sheer magnitude of power, technology, and money emanating from Silicon Valley. The global impact is still incredible, and it is still unique in the world.

Madison Caprara:

Where do you go to for inspiration when you find it lacking and how do you maintain your creative edge?

Kai Kundler:

It's important to get inspiration from art, music, photography, architecture and other art forms as well as the motion design scene. When confronted with a blocking barrier, however, the most effective response is to do nothing. Devoting one's time and energy to other activities may be beneficial if circumstances and time allow. Another project, or simply sleeping on it for the night, sports, a walk, or other forms of distraction are always helpful. After that, you can return to the topic with a clearer head.

A walk through the city works best for me. I love to walk through the city and streets and like the vibes of the city. It is very inspiring for me to be connected to the streets. I'm also looking forward to traveling more, and I'm also a big fan of creative challenges like Inktober. Forcing yourself to be a little creative every day exercises your creative muscles and often leads to surprisingly good results.

Madison Caprara:

Do you have an all-time favorite client or project you’ve worked on?

Kai Kundler:

It's tough for me to claim that one particular client was exceptional, because it would imply that other customers weren't as excellent. It is always very dependent on the project and the briefing. But I had a lot of joy working on projects for technological firms like DJI and, as previously mentioned, the automobile sector. In Germany, you just can't get around it. Just as important for me are personal projects or commissions.

Madison Caprara:

What are some up-and-coming media that you’re really interested in diving into in the future?

Kai Kundler:

There is a lot going on right now, such as the Metaverse, NFTs, and AI-based tools. New technological devices, such as Apple's maybe mixed reality device, can also give the entire industry a boost and change entire work processes. I always try to stay curious and try new things, but this has the side effect of increasing my pile of shame with plugins, software or learning new things. To my disadvantage, I like to be an early adopter, so I always have a lot of things I want to try out. However, this also means that I am rarely bored.

Madison Caprara:

I see that you studied at The RheinMain University. How valuable was your time and education to your career? And is there anything that you felt that you experienced or learned at university that you wouldn’t have been able to learn from anywhere else?

Kai Kundler:

The most significant benefit of this time was the opportunity to experiment. At first, I was given a lot of flexibility and was able to devote myself to a wide range of disciplines. This was the only way for me to discover and strengthen my inner love for motion design, 2d, 3d, and everything that moves on the screen.

That, I believe, is the most important thing a university can give you in a creative field. It is critical to be taught how to sit down and learn on your own. Motion design can be a very technical profession, and new tools are constantly being developed to help you achieve an even better result faster and more efficiently than before.

Madison Caprara:

Now, I’ve heard time and time again how personal projects outside of client work are important for mental health upkeep and furthering your skills as a creative. What is your stance on passion projects? Have you had the time recently?

Kai Kundler:

Personal projects are extremely important. Only here can you completely loosen up and experiment with new things. You can devote yourself to skills and things that are pushed aside in your day-to-day job here as well. You can learn and practice new skills. And once you're comfortable with what you've learned, you can apply it to your job or to your clients. You lay your own foundation here. I try to work on personal projects on a regular basis, and right now I'm focusing on typography and analog drawing.

Madison Caprara:

Aside from creating them for enjoyment, what are some things that you feel you gain from taking the initiative to do your own work?

Kai Kundler:

You begin to fine tune your skills, try new things, but you also strengthen what you already have. This boosts your self-esteem and allows you to recognize your own worth. What you quickly forget is that personal projects are the only way to get started in the creative industry. I can't tell you how many hours I spent as a kid drawing on my paper and having a good time. That is exactly what you should maintain and continue to do later on.

Madison Caprara:

Are you working on anything exciting we should be keeping our eyes open for in the near future?

Kai Kundler:

I'm currently working on a number of projects that I'm not allowed to share or that are still in their early stages. But I make an effort to be active and to create new and exciting things. As a result, it is always exciting.

Madison Caprara:

Is there anything in particular that you would like to end this interview on?

Kai Kundler:

I am sure we will come out of the pandemic stronger than before, having learned a lot about ourselves and appreciating life much more day to day. So keep moving, educate yourself, and stay creative. Also never watch Disney Classics with me because I will cry my eyes out.

Thanks for having me!

Guest User 1/11/22 Guest User 1/11/22

Takeover Tuesday with Kristina Sharabinskaia

An interview with Kristina Sharabinskaia, a Motion Graphics Designer and Concept Illustrator at The Mill.

Q&A with Kristina Sharabinskaia
Read time: 8min

*duck Pond*, 2021. Kristina Sharabinskaia.

Madison Caprara:

Hi, Kristina! If you don’t mind, let’s start the interview with an introduction to yourself. Who are you, what do you do, and how did you find yourself in the current position that you are?

Kristina Sharabinskaia:

I’m Kristina Sharabinskaia! I am a Junior Designer at The Mill. My role in the company is to storyboard, design concepts, and illustrate for motion. It's a fun job! I personally am not fond of animating things, this works well so that I don’t need to. I’m originally from St. Petersburg, Russia. I think the biggest reason why I’ve ended up in motion design is that my experiences in international schooling encouraged me to look for an escape through art.

When I was 12, I was sent abroad to England. At the time, I didn’t know English so art was something that allowed me to be busy while not speaking to people. I was that one student who draws during classes instead of paying attention. On the side, I used to go to fine art curriculums which helped me to get the principles of design down. So I took off to high school wanting to “draw cartoons,” and eventually got into college.

At SCAD, my major was Motion Media Design, and because I am an international student, ICE requires me to work in a major-related field. After graduation, I landed a few jobs as a freelancer for Scholar and State Design, however, I needed something more full-time. An HR rep from the Mill Chicago reached out to me and asked if I would be willing to work for the Mill. During the first go-around they found out that my visa was expiring soon, so they retracted the offer. A week later I saw through an old contact, Stephen Winters, an HR rep for the Mill NY, that they were hiring the same position. I DM’d him letting him know that I was interested. When I applied he vouched for me, and after three interviews, I got the job! This second time around, they looked a bit deeper into my visa situation and realized that I could extend it for another two years, so we’re good now.

Madison Caprara:

From eye-catching motion graphics to stylish designs and illustrations, your work is channeled in a variety of ways, yet still holds a pretty distinct style. How would you go about defining it?

Kristina Sharabinskaia:

My personal work explores redefining dimension. I like to play around with different scales of objects to reinforce the effect of a deformed reality. The end result is this surreal, imaginary dimension. I normally go about the process half-intuitively; I have an idea in my head of what I want to create and I vaguely sketch it out. After, I gather a lot of references based on the sketch and start drawing while copying aspects of my mood board. I then choose a style direction and use it as a guide for creating my artwork. In the end, I might apply some patterns, change the initial idea, or even evolve it into something else entirely. I often refer back to the color theory and the rules of composition. These make my decisions not so intuitive, but rather practical to reinforce the most interesting illustration that creates a new realm; bending rules of physics and logic, while still looking pleasing to the eye.

Madison Caprara:

You’re a recent university grad. Congratulations! How was your experience at SCAD?

Kristina Sharabinskaia:

Thanks! Tough question. I don’t know how much I can talk about it, but in a few words, it's a great school to connect, network, and find jobs. After all, the only reason I’m here in the epicenter of the motion graphic industry is because of SCAD's relationship with others within the creative world. They throw a career fair every year specifically for motion graphic students, so you can really network. There are so many cool resources, like a swimming pool, gym with real instructors, and even free late-night cabs from campus to your house. They host festivals where you meet celebrities and student shows exhibiting their works. SCAD definitely appeals to the masses.

There are, however, some downsides that you couldn’t imagine being there until you become a SCAD Bee. SCAD doesn't offer enough support for students. The student body has been asking for an increase in mental health services and altering tuition fees since the pandemic began. Other changes to be had are allowing plus-sized models to be cast in fashion shows, providing funding for student clubs, and softening absence rules. It just felt like the school didn’t necessarily do anything for students that didn’t benefit them cost-wise. Even when suicide rates skyrocketed, there was no change in the way SCAD handled the issue. Most of the university, if not all of it, is a big marketing scheme; a business, a modern-day “nonprofit” corporation. So by entering this academic community, you agree to be a part of the show.

With all of this being said, this money-hungry infrastructure benefits graduates. There are so many job opportunities and perks that come from this agreement after you have graduated from this nightmare. It’s a win that comes at the cost of students’ mental well-being, creative blocks, and countless sleepless nights.

Madison Caprara:

That’s disappointing to hear, and an issue many who have chosen the more “traditional” path of education are being forced to make peace with when the realization strikes that these large entities really don’t care about the individual.

Madison Caprara:

Now, do you have any tidbits of advice for students who may be thinking about entering the motion design world?

Kristina Sharabinskaia:

I feel like you really need to understand what it is about before entering it. Figure out what exactly you want to do as your job. Try to reach out to some people in the industry, invite them for a coffee, or even email them to ask questions. If they’re not busy, they will be happy to get back to you. Most of us professionals are happy to connect, even through email. But don’t frown if a person doesn’t get to you, I’m sure they feel bad for not doing so.

Madison Caprara:

If you had to choose one creative collaborator for an important project, who would you count on?

Kristina Sharabinskaia:

When I had initially started working at a Scholar, my guide from the start was Madison Ellis. She worked as an Art Director for my first Taco Bell project. Madison was incredibly positive and encouraging. She had also graduated from SCAD two years before I did. We hit it off right from the start. She is a talented director and her feedback helped to improve my work by miles. In the end, she would always ask if you were happy with your result. It really showed how much she would listen when solving creative problems together. I’ve never actually met her in person, but her memes would always crack me up and make my day!

Madison Caprara:

What do you believe are some of the benefits of working with colleagues as opposed to going at it alone?

Kristina Sharabinskaia:

Working with other creatives helps me keep myself accountable for meeting deadlines and the precision of my work. Processes like brainstorming and overcoming creative blocks as a team are easier as opposed to facing the struggle alone. Your capacity of work goes down when with colleagues because you're not made to wear multiple hats. So yeah, I love teamwork! It’s efficient, fun, and your opportunities to come up with ideas are expanded with multiple points of view.

Madison Caprara:

You’ve worked with some top-tier studios: Scholar, State Design, and as you said, you are currently working at The Mill. How have those experiences been for you?

Kristina Sharabinskaia:

Everything I have expected and, at the same time, very different. I had a good understanding that the motion industry had a certain structure of work: the advertising agency sends a script, then you pitch to the agency. If you win, you first would start with mood boards, gathering references, creating style frames, and sharing the overall vision of the project. After the client’s approval, you move to animation. Normally, designers would work almost simultaneously with animators and slowly connect all the pieces of the puzzle together. Art and creative directors oversee the project, share notes with the clients and the team while keeping everyone on schedule. This pretty much sums up the process.

Studios like to keep a similar routine and follow a similar creative process, despite the size of the company. So I found myself fitting into the routine easily. The transition began after I gained more experience with different studios. I found that people had a huge impact on the energy in the company. If there was a micromanaging producer, it would impact the speed of communication. If a creative director is stressed about the project, it would cause the whole team to be nervous too. It’s never really about business and money, but the time you get to know your colleagues as people, not employees. I learned to appreciate a good afternoon of laughter and discussion of new Netflix shows.

Madison Caprara:

That’s a great takeaway. Humans really are at the heart of every company.

Madison Caprara:

With your history of landing work at various reputable studios, what is your opinion on showreels vs. individual clips when landing a gig? In your experience, which should be prioritized?

Kristina Sharabinskaia:

I mean, you need both. I’ve gone to college fairs and other opportunities to land gigs with both ready to show, and STILL wouldn't end up nailing an internship. My friends did, though, in some instances. So, I’d say it’s helpful to have them, but they’re not a guarantee to magically find work. Sometimes all that matters is networking and knowing the right people to be the applicant who lands the job.

Madison Caprara:

Do you have an all-time favorite project that you have worked on?

Kristina Sharabinskaia:

I haven’t been in the industry for long enough to fall in love with a specific project, yet. Most of the time the ideas get so diversified and changed throughout, that you can barely take credit for your own input. I guess I have an idea for a perfect project where I would be an art director for the project, and so far those have been social media pieces for Instagram during my free time. If I had to pick a favorite, it would probably be an illustration for a podcast cover I did a year ago called “Empathy Bro”. I really liked it because the host of the podcast was a small business owner, and the process of working with her was more to the ground and personal. We would facetime each other, I’d film myself sketching ideas, and we’d brainstorm together.

Madison Caprara:

In your opinion, what are some of the current visual trends motion designers should be focusing on?

Kristina Sharabinskaia:

A mix of 2D and 3D has a certain appeal. The combination of the different stylistic approaches uplift art to be more unique, and being unique is always something people look out for when trying to find inspiration.

Madison Caprara:

What is your favorite thing about working in motion design? Are there any misconceptions that come with being a designer?

Kristina Sharabinskaia:

Yes. One thing in particular that I wasn’t necessarily surprised to find out was truthful but confirmed what I’ve heard before from many teachers and designers in motion. When you create something in a group of people, not all of your ideas get heard or even executed. Sometimes I would spend weeks designing characters for an environment, but in the end, the idea just ends up dusting away on a cloud. And sometimes it’s hard not to take it personally, but it’s work, there is always tomorrow.

Madison Caprara:

Where do you get inspiration from when creating this work?

Kristina Sharabinskaia:

Pinterest, mostly. And Netflix’s Arcane: League of Legends. But I intensively follow artists I like and get inspired by their work. A few of the great ones in motion design are Ori Toor, Sarah Beth Morgan, Rune Fisker...Their work is unified by bright colors and the appeal to animation, meaning their work looks like it could move.

My personal art style is just a repetition of other artists’ work. I pick the inspiration, mix, match, and imitate. In the end, it still comes out differently, even though almost none of my ideas are mine in the beginning. References rule!

Madison Caprara:

I love the self-awareness, Kristina! It’s really refreshing!

We’re reaching the end of our time together, unfortunately. Is there anything in particular that you would like to touch on before we go?

Kristina Sharabinskaia:

Yes! I’d like to end with a piece of wisdom for fresh talent. There is nothing wrong with promoting your work on social media. For me, my presence on socials has helped me to make a lot of friends in the industry as well as to find work and even be discovered. Marketing my Instagram and Behance, and posting projects on Linkedin played out very well for me. After all, I got my art on a beer can because of social media!

Guest User 11/2/21 Guest User 11/2/21

Takeover Tuesday with AppleButter Animated

Q&A with Megan Jedrysiak and Jackson Ammenheuser, Co-Founders of AppleButter Animated.

Q&A with AppleButter Animated
Read time: 10min

*Sprite Way Series* | Studio: Protokulture, Animation: Jackson Ammenheuser and Megan Jedrysiak

Madison Caprara:

Hey, you two!

Why don’t you both give me a little intro to who you are? How did you find yourselves in this industry? What initially attracted you to the field?

AppleButter Animated:

We are Megan Jedrysiak and Jackson Ammenheuser, Co-Founders of AppleButter Animated, based out of Chicago. We love to skate, play soccer, sing karaoke, and eat food. When we aren’t doing those things, we like to experiment with animation production practices! Lately, we’ve been expanding our efforts in the motion process by taking elements of digital animation (graphics, motion, sound, automation) and presenting them in both physical and streaming spaces with our own machines and graphics.

We both studied Animation at DePaul University and jumped into freelance work right out of school. I wouldn’t suggest going straight to freelance to anyone today, but it luckily worked out for us. We were both initially attracted to the independence and energy of experimental animation, and loved that you didn’t need to wait for an art show, or a budget, or a crew. You don’t need to ask permission to do anything, just go animate!

Madison Caprara:

I’m assuming you both met in one of your Animation courses, or..?

AppleButter Animated:

We actually met in a computer lab at DePaul.

We would work on 3D animation homework together. It involved a lot of sugary snack consumption and Megan playing cool music videos. Eventually, we started dating, made a few projects together, and chose to continue doing so after graduation, mostly so that we could continue to eat snacks and watch cool music videos together while we worked.

Madison Caprara:

A pretty enviable meet-cute!

So, how did AppleButter Animated come to be? Was there a particular influence or circumstance that prompted you to start the studio?

AppleButter Animated:

AppleButter started right when we graduated university, seven years ago. We wanted to keep making our own work and gave it a shot! We figured that we could always jump ship and go to a 9-5 if there was a disaster. It was a struggle for the first few years, including a couple of side hustles, but we got there! We were hugely inspired by our friends Nick and Nadine, who run a two-person graphic art studio in Chicago, Sonnenzimmer. They seemed to have it all as a couple with a small creative business and art practice. We thought we would try the same thing!

*GFXi* | Client: GFXi, Animation: Jackson Ammenheuser, Design: Megan Jedrysiak

Madison Caprara:

A pretty courageous endeavor being new graduates!

How would you describe the studio’s style?

AppleButter Animated:

We like to make things fast, at least in animator terms. I hope that comes across in our style. There’s this idea that animation has to take forever to be good, and we just don’t believe that. Our work ranges in style, but almost every one of our projects takes less than a week to make.

We strive to make hybrid-style energetic work that leaves an impression and might make you double-take. We like to wait for ideas that make you laugh even if they’re not funny. Some of our best ideas emulate jokes in that way, or at least point to a punchline.

Madison Caprara:

I see that you specialize in short-form animation and interactive art. What draws you to the two?

AppleButter Animated:

We get excited about all things motion. Deep down, robotics and animation are extremely similar on a structural level: build a thing and make it move. Even Megan’s painting work breaks down a 2D image informed by motion in our animation practice. We are really attracted to that energy that you can give an object, space, or video when you make it move. There is a lot of power there, we hope to push what animation means way outside of motion graphics and the moving image ballpark.

Madison Caprara:

How does the studio work in terms of project selection, work process, etc.? How do you go about delineating tasks between the two of you?

AppleButter Animated:

We like to say that Megan is great at starting things and Jackson is good at finishing them.

That pretty much describes our pipeline most of the time. Megan has a much stronger art and drawing background, while Jackson studied the more 3D and technical side of creative. Megan will typically kick ideas off with research, drawings, boards, and styleframes, then we’ll meet in the middle to do design, motion tests, and development. Typically Jackson will do the final motion, VFX, and polish. There is a lot of collaboration and discussion at all points but that vaguely fits most of the time.

Madison Caprara:

That being said, what do you both look for when taking on a project? What has you giving an automatic, “yes”?

Sad Boy Music Video | Client: Deltree, G-Eazy, Animation: Megan Jedrysiak and Jackson Ammenheuser, Illustration: Joonbug

AppleButter Animated:

For commercial work, an automatic “yes” is a good producer! Having the budget, timeline, scope, mood, brand guidelines, all laid out before we even speak is the dream! When it comes to ad work, we care more about working with good folks and being treated with respect than working on the “sickest” projects.

For our artwork, we love to collaborate and interact with friends. Our animation work was so siloed for a long time, and we’re really over that style of making. We live for that back and forth of ideas between collaborators, even when it all goes wrong. Sharing the highs and lows and taking a leap together is what it’s all about.

Madison Caprara:

Speaking on collaboration, do you ever outsource talent for larger projects?

AppleButter Animated:

We try to do 100% of the work ourselves. We’re just not that type of studio that hires out other animation freelancers. If we can’t do a project for whatever reason, we try to pass along the work to friends! We enjoy working with musicians, directors, and writers of course, but for the animation work, we plan on keeping it between the two of us.

Madison Caprara:

And what has been your favorite project to date?

AppleButter Animated:

Our favorite project was a duo gallery show at Public Works Gallery. We pulled it off right before the pandemic. The show allowed us to try so many new ideas that would be exhibited in a physical space. World-building is inherent in animated films, but films are typically viewed in a 2D space. We were able to produce a more immersive world with our animation, paintings, and painting robot living together all in one space. That process and engagement from all the folks who showed up inspired us. We're hoping to push further into that space over the next couple of years.

Madison Caprara:

Well, the exhibition looked incredible! Readers can find it here.

Madison Caprara:

When needed, where do you go for inspiration?

AppleButter Animated:

We try to look beyond film for inspiration. Engaging with stories and visual languages as much as possible, and seeking out new experiences informs our vision. If we’re stuck or looking for something new, we go for a walk, develop recipes, eat a good snack, look at paintings, read books or comics, garden, and talk with friends. Looking at a problem from a wider view usually helps us understand what we’re really trying to get at.

Also, this isn't traditional inspiration, but whenever we need some energy in the moment, say a project is going poorly, or we lost the thread of an idea, we always pull up an old friend’s class film. He made it in a late-night daze for an experimental animation class. The assignment was misunderstood by most of the class and the professor was not happy during the screening, but this project was the cherry on top. It just went really wrong, including some major sound goofs, and somehow it went wrong just enough times to turn into one of our all-time favorite films. It brings back the wild energy we love every time.

*Away From Keyboard* Residency | WNDR Museum, Chicago

Madison Caprara:

What were some of the best decisions you’ve made vs ones you wish you could redo? As a studio or even individual artists?

AppleButter Animated:

Collaborating with friends and being a part of our larger animation and art community has been our most positive experience as artists and animators. We’ve learned so much working with great folks on personal projects and commercial ones. It opens up a field of possibilities from collaborating with one friend, to working with a group at a studio, to inviting a general internet audience to work with us on a robotic painting.

Our biggest mistake is the other side of that coin, which is initially believing that animation and art need to be this silo-ed sport. I think many could attest to the running joke of the lone animation martyr stuck in their cave. And maybe that’s how you like to work, but it doesn’t have to be that way!

Madison Caprara:

I’m sure some folks out there can definitely relate.

What advice would you give to someone thinking of starting a studio?

AppleButter Animated:

For people who generally want to step away from full-time employment and do their own thing, I would suggest doing your research, understanding your safety net, and talking to people who are where you want to be! For us, that meant talking to our studio idols about all sorts of things from clients to art galleries to day-to-day expectations. Jackson talked to his parents about helping us if we got into a bind, luckily we’ve avoided needing help. But it is important to know it’s there and recognize that we couldn’t have done this without that privilege. We also read everything we could about freelance, from books like The Freelance Manifesto, to online forums, and going to local mo-graph meetups and animation festivals.

Madison Caprara:

Are there any big upcoming projects in development we should be looking out for from AppleButter?

AppleButter Animated:

As spaces are starting to open again, we have a few space-based ideas we are pitching around that we love! One involves a DIY Smart CRT TV that would serve as an ongoing local animation festival with a vintage edge, think flipping through channels and classic commercials. We're working on adding a comparative graphic vision system to our painting machine, this process would compare the live painting to a graphic or photo, and update accordingly. And we’re excited about this new 3D smear style that we’ve been having a lot of fun with on Instagram.

Madison Caprara:

That sounds really exciting! After a year+ of social isolation, an interactive exhibit is particularly enticing.

Unfortunately, we’re reaching the end of our time together. It’s been really great getting to know a bit more about the two of you and your studio. Is there any closing point or piece of advice you would like to end our chat with?

AppleButter Animated:

Have fun! Speak from what you know, be open to learning and making mistakes, and be the kind of nerd that only you can be!

Guest User 9/5/21 Guest User 9/5/21

The Start of STATE, with Dash Bash speaker, Marcel Ziul

Meryn Hayes had a chat with Marcel Ziul, Creative Director and Founder of STATE.

Growing up in the suburbs of Sao Paulo, Ziul moved to the U.S. in 2007 after working with some of the top studios in Brazil. Read on to learn more about his journey and how STATE came to be.

Q&A with Marcel Ziul
Read time: 10 min

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Meryn Hayes:

Today I’m speaking with Marcel Ziul from STATE design, welcome.

Marcel Ziul:

Thanks for having me.

Meryn Hayes:

Marcel is a Creative Director and founder of STATE. Growing up in the suburbs of Sao Paulo, he moved to the U.S. in 2007. As a freelancer, he has contributed his talents to Prologue Films, Stardust, Zoic Studios, Troika, Shilo, Apple, MAL/TBWA, and Bigstar, where he served as an Art Director and Lead Animator on the Bio Channel rebrand.

Marcel’s amazing work is highlighted by several awards and nominations.

Meryn Hayes:

We're so excited. The Bash is getting close. I feel like we've been planning it for so long and now it's actually happening. The more we talk to our speakers, the more excited I'm getting, and the less stressed I'm feeling about the logistics.

Marcel Ziul:

I know. It's exciting. I was thinking the other day, the conference is happening in September, but September is already here. Now I need to take a look at my keynotes.

Meryn Hayes:

It's time to start prepping.

Marcel Ziul:

Exactly.

Meryn Hayes:

Awesome. Do you want to tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got into the industry?

Marcel Ziul:

Yeah. I joined the industry totally out of the blue. I was going to med school, actually, and realized that it wasn't for me. My dad saw me through that process. He owned clubs back in Brazil and I used to do all the flyers for them. He was like, “dude, you love designing, why don't you talk to a friend of mine who has a studio? Maybe he can get you an internship?" I went there, talked to the guy, and started as their PA. I was doing things for shoots, organizing cables, all of that.

I would stay at the studio from 6 AM until I finished my shift at 6 PM. Even then, I’d stay longer to go to the post-production room to ask the guys questions. I was doing tutorials at that time. One day the main 3D guy was on vacation and they had to animate a logo. My boss needed to find a freelancer and asked if anyone knew someone that could tackle it. I said, "I can do it, I've been doing tutorials. I can do this thing." It came out good. From there, I was promoted to the post-production side.

Marcel Ziul:

This was all in my hometown. My town is medium-sized. It has almost a million people and is close to Sao Paulo, but the industry is super small. It's not big, so I wanted to go somewhere else. I moved to Sao Paulo and started working with bigger shops, doing my thing. After that, I went to Rio to work in this big production house. Then I moved to LA. Here I am.

Meryn Hayes:

That's awesome. It's so interesting, I've talked with a few people throughout the industry about this. Sometimes when people are getting started in their careers, they realize something's just not working. For example, you tried med school…It’s easy to think of these times as points where we're failing ourselves.

I started out doing photography and realized halfway through college that I didn’t want to move to New York to be a photographer. I was really hard on myself but realized through those curves of my career path that finding out what you don't want to do is as important as finding out what you do want to do. You find your way to where you're supposed to be through those challenges and moments where you're identifying, “Is this what I want for myself?”

Meryn Hayes:

Med school is a really big deal and hard to get into. Was that a tough decision for you? It sounds like you had a lot of support from your family, which I'm sure helped.

Marcel Ziul:

Well, it wasn't a hard decision for me. You're right about knowing what you don't like to do. It's important. I usually say this to clients when I present something for them, let's say, mood boards. I say, if you don't know what you like, just tell me what you don't like.

Meryn Hayes:

Totally.

Marcel Ziul:

But in regards to transitioning from med school to this industry, I don't think it was a hard decision. It was a moment of clarity. When I think back, my dad had such a vision, that he too realized, "Dude, you don't like this. Why are you going to continue?" It's also hard to be 100% sure of what you're going to do when you're younger. We all carry that pressure and feel that we need to know.

“STATE, meaning the state of mind, or ‘this is your state.’ this is a place where you can come and be yourself…”

No, sometimes you need to make decisions and that's the beauty of this thing, you can just re-correct. When I started working at the studio, I could tell it was right because I was putting in so many hours after work. Let's say I would work in the studio from 9 AM to 6 PM and then at 6 PM, I would go to the post-production division and stay there with the guys. I was putting in all the hours. It was a passion. To me, it was an easy decision.

Meryn Hayes:

That's so interesting. Then what? You moved to LA. What year was that?

Marcel Ziul:

I moved to LA in 2007--I'm going to talk about this in my keynote. The funny thing is that in Brazil, things are so different. There is a lack of planning, not that the U.S. has the best planning efforts, but we plan stuff better here in the States than in Brazil. I got tired of that. I got tired of the disorganization, working crazy hours, and having no weekends for six months. It was time for me to go and do other things. I was in between the U.S. and Australia.

Marcel Ziul:

I had a studio in Sydney that wanted to hire me, but I was really into the studios here in the U.S. I came to LA and met with a studio called Belief. It's old. I don't think people are going to remember it, but Belief was like BUCK back in the day; the go-to studio. Everyone wanted to work there.

I talked to Belief and they wanted to hire me. It was so awesome. I went back to Brazil and said, "Well, I'm moving to the States. Bye." They did all of my paperwork because it's such a big deal. One thing that people here in the U.S. don't realize is that when you hire someone from a different country, it is a big deal for a foreigner. You have no clue. I remember going to my farewell party with all of my friends and family there. Everyone was crying. It's not an easy thing to do. It's not like moving from New York to LA.

Marcel Ziul:

For us, it's a huge deal. I would never have expected that I would be here for this much time, but I love it. I would stay longer for sure.

Meryn Hayes:

So you were working in LA, what led to the start of STATE? How did that happen?

Marcel Ziul:

That's an interesting question. It was mid-2013, until that point, I was a freelancer. I was also doing projects on the side with a friend of mine, Marcos, who's an amazing Art Director and Creative Director--he's awesome, we're still friends. We were doing projects on the side where we would get the overflow work from studios and do it ourselves. We had a space and it was like we were in this limbo mode: do a project, go back to freelancing with studios, do another project, more freelancing. I got tired of it. This whole movement. We weren’t a studio and we weren’t freelancing a hundred percent.

I felt the necessity to create something I could put all of my time into. I talked to a friend of mine about building a studio. He wasn't ready for that. He wanted to be a director. So, I decided to move to New York. I was tired of LA; Hollywood, the flashy people. I wanted to go somewhere else, but then something crazy happened. I was doing my green card at the time and I needed letters of support to show to immigration so that I could stay in the U.S. as a resident.

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Marcel Ziul:

I called the NFL and asked, "Hey, you guys tried to hire me in the past. Could you write me a letter stating that?" The guy never got back to me. Two weeks go by, I'm like, "Oh snap." I sent another email. Finally, he responded and asked if I could come by the next day. I showed up and he started talking to me about a project I had no idea about. I asked why he was talking to me about a project when I had come for a letter. I didn’t get it. He was like, "Letter, what letter? Dude, I thought you were here for work.” He ended up giving me the letter and telling me he’d call in a month.

Marcel Ziul:

A month later, he called me with a project. By then I had realized that I did not want to work with a friend of mine. I wanted to build something. My wife came to me and said, "Hey, I can be the producer on the project. Then we can hire other people. What do you think?" I agreed and we took on the first project. We did another one and another after that. We did maybe three to four projects with the NFL when one day, Carlos came to me with an offer.

Carlos was a client of the NFL. He's an amazing friend. I love that guy so much. He came to me with “the biggest project of the season.” No pitch needed, he wanted to give it to me. The only kicker was that I couldn’t work from home. I needed to have a space because he needed to be able to take his boss to an official office. With bigger projects, you need more stuff.

Meryn Hayes:

Show me you're legitimate.

Marcel Ziul:

He gave me two weeks to pull that together. One of the producers on the NFL side was a friend of mine--Joe Nash. He's now an Executive Producer at BUCK, but back then he was leaving the NFL. Carlos suggested Joe and I get together to do the project. Joe came to work as the producer and then we got a space together.

It felt right. We loved working together. We loved each other. We asked ourselves, “Why don't we become partners and build a studio?” Then, STATE was born. It happened out of the blue. It wasn't something planned or structured.

Meryn Hayes:

It's funny. There are a lot of ways to start a studio, but that's similar to what happened with Mack and Cory. They were working at an agency--that's where I met them--they got a project that they were going to take on freelance, and they decided they were going to leave the agency to do it. Then, they started working together and ‘Mack and Cory’ turned into dash. How long were y'all working together on that project for the NFL?

Marcel Ziul:

We worked on the project for about four months. It was huge. We had to shoot and everything. In the middle of this whole project, we liked working together so much. Joe and I were like, “oh man, now let's get a space, and let's keep this going. You're the Creative Director, I'm the EP, let's go.” He started doing business development, and we began to get a bunch of small projects. Like really small projects, but for us it was awesome.

Joe was with STATE for another year, then I think...I don't know. I don't want to put words in his mouth, but I think it was too much for him to be the owner. The responsibility and the hours. Once you become the owner of the studio, there's no more nine to six. It's nine to whatever. Joe decided to leave because he wanted to do something else. He wanted to be a farmer. He went back to Connecticut to pursue that.

Meryn Hayes:

That's awesome!

So, where does STATE’s name come from? How did y'all come up with that?

Marcel Ziul:

It's funny because we had another art director who was supposed to be with us as a partner. The three of us were all trying to bounce names around and what we came with was just bad. We came up with ridiculous names and Joe's mom, she's a consultant for Google, was like, "send me your name ideas and I'll let you know if you guys are heading to the right direction,” as far as branding and recognition go. We sent the names to her and she told us they were all terrible. Eventually, we came up with STATE, meaning the state of mind, or ‘this is your state.’ This is a place where you can come and be yourself, something like that. She liked it! Short, strong, and has good meaning behind it.

Meryn Hayes:

Awesome. In the beginning, those early days, what were some of the challenges you didn't expect to be dealing with?

Marcel Ziul:

Well, there's a funny story. We started our studio. Right? Cool. We booked a few freelancers. I was working one day and one of them came to me and said, "Hey, Marcel, can I talk to you?" All I could think about was how awesome this was. He was running a project at MY studio, and now he needs to talk to me. He comes to me, and he's like, "Hey we need toilet paper." I'm like, "Oh God, this is the shit that we have to deal with."

That was the first wake-up call. I realized that we needed to take care of the space and have things in place. Structured. Having a studio is like having a kid. I mean, I have two kids and love them to death. They are my life, but it's so hard as a parent because it's a 24-hour thing. I'm always there and always taking care of them--they're two and six. The company is the same. If I tell someone who wants to have a kid how hard it is, people will never have kids.

Marcel Ziul:

They'll be like, “Forget about this. You're not going to sleep. You're going to do this. You're going to do that. Whatever.” Having a company is the same.

Meryn Hayes:

Same way.

“…when something becomes a business, a really big business, it loses its soul.”

Marcel Ziul:

It's the same way. There are hard problems. If someone tells you beforehand, you wouldn’t want to have a studio, but I think the biggest fear for me, in the beginning, was the cash flow. We got projects and you feel good, but now you need money to produce the projects. You need to have money to finance the project, then get paid later. We have to develop a system for that. It was pretty cool, but for me, just that anxiety of not knowing was hard. The business side of it was pretty intense.

Meryn Hayes:

I have a four-and-a-half-year-old, and I can totally empathize. I think for so long, I felt like a bad mom because nobody talks about how hard it is. I was just like, “is it me?” Then I realized that nobody talks about it. It's just hard. I like that comparison, that if people talked about how hard it was to start a business or a studio, they wouldn't do it because it is hard.

Mack and Cory, when I met them, they were animators. Now they own this business. They can empathize with the whole mindset shifting from a creative to the business side and how different that is. Do you feel you just had to figure it out on your own? Or did you have resources early on that were helping you figure out the business side of things? Because that's just something that if you're not used to it, it's out of left field for a lot of creatives.

Marcel Ziul:

This is a good question because I never understood what my dad used to do with me in terms of preparing me for the world. He always had his own business and he was always teaching me things. I remember going to my dad’s work helping him at his business and I would complain about something. I'd be like, "Hey dad, did you see that thing is broken?" He would be like, "You already identified that it's broken. Why don't you go and fix it? You know the problem. How do you solve it?" He was always giving me that mindset. I used to hate when he would say that to me.

Then when I started running STATE, I realized how necessary those lessons were, because I saw all the problems and was already thinking about how to solve them. The transition from being an artist to a business owner wasn't that hard for me because I was trained for it by my parents. But if you're not ready, some give up along the way.

Marcel Ziul:

I think the biggest hurdle I had to overcome was learning when to be the creative director and when to be the owner. It's like being an animator and a designer at the same time.

Meryn Hayes:

That's so interesting and such an important mindset because again, you're trying to make the best creative possible. Taking the side of the business, which might impact what you'd say about the creative direction and focusing on the project or the client or the creative or whatever the task is. To your point, you can figure out the logistics or the cost or the extra stuff on the other side, but to focus on the creative, to make sure that it really shines through. That's great advice. How big is the studio now?

Marcel Ziul:

I think STATE has a staff of 20 to 25 now.

Meryn Hayes:

In those early days, how conscious were you of how many you wanted on staff? Was growth more so based on the creative needs for client work and projects?

Marcel Ziul:

Our biggest thing when building the studio was going back to how we started this conversation--we knew what we didn't want to be. We didn't want to be like the big studios because I believe that when something becomes a business, a really big business, it loses its soul. Most of this is because I believe that when clients look at STATE, they can see our soul. They can see how much heart we put into our projects. I always thought that if we got too big, we would lose that component, which is so important to me.

I never thought about having a studio with 25 people. Did I want to have a studio that had 50 people? Maybe not, maybe I'm fine with 25, maybe I'm fine with 20. Maybe I'm fine with 15. To me, it's all about measuring how much heart is still coming out of STATE. If we’re still producing with passion and people can see our soul, cool. If that component starts getting lost, then we're getting too big in terms of structure. But I never had that mindset of exactly how many people we needed.

Meryn Hayes:

That's great. I’ll probably steal that quote. I love that. Measuring how much heart. Sometimes people can get too caught up in the tangible aspect. I mean, I understand businesses have to be tangible for many reasons, but I love the idea of keeping on the pulse of how it’s feeling. The soul of the work that's coming out. So, you were in New York when you started and now you're back in LA. Is that right?

Marcel Ziul:

No. I never moved to New York. I was moving but then…

Meryn Hayes:

Then STATE was born, so you never left.

Marcel Ziul:

Yeah. Never did.

Meryn Hayes:

I was like, “how did you get back to LA?” But you never left.

Marcel Ziul:

Never left. We never made the move, which is something that, every time I go to New York, is the biggest frustration of my life. I never lived in the city. I think I needed that, but it's fine. Now I'm at a different point in my life. I can go to New York anytime.

Just quickly going back to that heart thing, I was talking to a friend of mine the other day. This guy is so amazing. He’s unbelievable. Every time I talk to him, he’s like, “I have three businesses. Now, I have five businesses.” He's always building. At one point, he was going through a rough time. He has a studio back home, back in Brazil. I told him this. I said, "You know what's happening with you? You were putting money ahead of everything. Your end goal is always cash. I can guarantee to you I never put money ahead of STATE, no." I said, “all you have to do is work hard, and love what you do. Do you show up excited about this business? Can people see that through your words? Through your work? Through your conversations? Yes?” If people see that, money becomes a consequence.

“when you say no to others, you're saying yes to yourself. we look at ‘no’ as a crime…those ‘nos’ got me here.”

Marcel Ziul:

Like at STATE, if you could see the amount of work that we say no to because these projects have nothing to do with what we are. They’re just going to be about the money. If it's just money, you lose the soul. We're not doing our thing. It misses the mission statement of the studio which is what’s important. A few days later, he called me. He had gotten rid of two of his businesses and is now just focusing on the studio.

Meryn Hayes:

That's great. That's something that I think is difficult for people, in general, to say no to from a business perspective. Especially for people who are just starting in their freelance career or are just starting a studio. Saying no is especially hard because of the money. Do you think that that's something that's gotten easier? Or would you say that y'all were just as willing to say “no” early on to keep up with the soul of the studio? Has it gotten any easier over time?

Marcel Ziul:

It gets easier. My wife once said something to me that was cool. She said, “when you say no to others, you're saying yes to yourself.” We look at “no” as a crime. My whole keynote at the Dash Bash should be talking about the power of “no”. How “no” got me here. Am I the most successful studio out there? No. Am I the most successful person to myself? Maybe, yes? I'm happy with me. Those “no’s” got me here.

Even the way that you take on rejection is important. For example, I've seen people when they lose pitches. They get so mad. But there's always a victory when pitching. You pitch them something and if you get a “no”, you go back and ask why you got the rejection from your client. Is it because of your idea? Was it because of a business relationship? You find so many important answers through “nos” that we don't even realize.

Meryn Hayes:

I love that. The introspection. It's so easy to get caught up in why you didn't win a pitch or why the client didn't like something. But I really appreciate the introspection of learning from why something didn’t work.

Early on as a Producer, I didn't know how to talk to clients or I didn't know the answer to a question. Just take a breath. Take a minute and figure it out. Learn from whatever the client is saying or the issue and you can move forward. We sometimes feel as if we need to say “yes” or have an answer right away. There's that service side of what we do that pushes people to overcome it or to say that they know how to do something when they don't. To your point of being introspective and taking a look at why we are doing something, that's meaningful.

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Marcel Ziul:

When we do post mortem on a project--we do that a lot at STATE--after we finish a project, we get everyone together and talk about it. What did we learn? We did a project for this big client that I'm not going to disclose because, of course, they're my friends, but we did a project for this big client. I was trying to work with them for five years. Five years! Going to meetings, visiting, taking them to lunches and dinners, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, everything. We got the project. That's cool. We start the project. Good budget and everything, and then financially, the project was a disaster.

How the hell we blew up that budget, I didn't understand. Looking back, the client was confused most of the time. They didn't know what they wanted. I think they became so excited about the relationship, that when they got to work with us, they wanted to do everything at once. After we delivered the project, we came back to our post-mortem to talk about it and something that came to my mind was the price of education. We pay for education. You go to college, you pay. You want to take a class, you pay. It's the same thing in business. Sometimes you have to pay to learn from your clients.

Marcel Ziul:

So, we blew up the budget. There's a way to go about processing that. You can either look at it as you blew it up because you did the project wrong, OR you can see it as a learning experience. We were learning how to work with that particular client. Now, if we do another project with them, we know how they work. You can always see things as an absolute failure or you can analyze the negativity that came with it. There's always something that you learn through mistakes.

Meryn Hayes:

That's so true. The value of a project, even when it doesn't go right, is that you learned how to work with the other person, which is different from client to client. Sometimes when you're going through it, it's a struggle. Then you're able to step back and breathe and really look retrospectively. Do you always do post mortems with the clients?

“we pay for education. you go to college, you pay. you want to take a class, you pay. it's the same thing in business. sometimes you have to pay to learn your clients.”

Marcel Ziul:

Only sometimes with the clients. Some clients are not open to it. We always do it internally though because there's always something you're going to take away. When you're in the middle of a project, it can feel pretty awkward and uncomfortable. What I learned is that the biggest issue with our industry, there are a lot, but the biggest issue is communication.

For example, let's talk about notes. You get a note from a client that has five paragraphs. All they want to say is to make the composition a little brighter. But instead of saying that in one sentence, they write a novel to you. Communication is a huge deal. Not a lot of people know how to communicate with a few words.

Meryn Hayes:

You have to translate what they're saying.

Marcel Ziul:

Then you read it and realize that all they want is to make that object in the background red.

Meryn Hayes:

It's like…you wrote all that to say that?

Thinking about the business side of what we do is something that's not learned in school. The other thing is communication and providing feedback. I went to art school for photography and we had all kinds of critiques, but it's not inherent. You have to learn to give good feedback. That goes both for other creatives and for clients. To your point, education is so important. Sometimes it's lost on us because we live in this world. We know what feedback we're looking for, but if this is the first time that the clients have worked with us or the first time they've ever done video animation, we forget that they might not know everything. You don't know what you don't know. That education is just so crucial.

Marcel Ziul:

This is so silly. How many times you were on a call and then the client gave you a note and you're like, “Okay, cool. No worries.” Then you hang up and you're like, “I have no clue.” It happens a lot.

Meryn Hayes:

It happened like three times today.

Marcel Ziul:

One way that I learned how to make sure you and the clients are on the same level is just through honesty. They give me a note that I don't understand, I tell them I don't understand it. There was a moment a couple of weeks ago, we were on a call with this huge client. He gave me an explanation of what he wanted and then asked if I understood. I immediately said, no. I could tell that he got uncomfortable. I was uncomfortable too. We were on the same level. We talked through the notes, and he explained it to me again. I went back to the team, fixed the problem, and sent it back. He was like, “dude, awesome, approved!”

Meryn Hayes:

Perfect.

Marcel Ziul:

If I had said okay and went back to my team, I would have had no clue what to do. All you want is to be on the same level as your client so that you can all understand each other, which is hard to do. It's not easy to say I don't understand. We feel the pressure to say we got it. We're so smart. We understand everything you say. No, sometimes there is confusion too.

Meryn Hayes:

Totally. It goes back to what I was thinking earlier, the pressure of feeling you're always supposed to know the answer. You can read the client's mind, it will, to your point, save a lot of back and forth and confusion to just clear the air and be like, “I don't understand.” But it's hard for people.

Marcel Ziul:

It's hard to be vulnerable. People are afraid and that goes back to what I was saying at the beginning. It's so key to feel comfortable being vulnerable. It's fine to not have an answer. I make bad decisions too. Sometimes I don't know what I'm doing and that’s ok.

Meryn Hayes:

That's so important. That's great. Let's see. How has the last year been for y'all? Do you feel the pandemic in the last 18 months has shifted how you work?

“it's hard to be vulnerable. people are afraid…it's so key to feel comfortable being vulnerable. it's fine to not have an answer. I make bad decisions too. sometimes I don't know what I'm doing and that’s ok.”

Marcel Ziul:

Well, yes and no. For STATE, diversity has always been a big thing for us. I have always worked with people from all around the world. I don’t care if someone is in whatever country, different times. I kick off artists at midnight. No problem. If they're in Europe and I want to work with someone there, I'll do it. In that aspect, it didn't change much.

What did take a little bit of time for the team was understanding how to work from home. It took us about one to two months to understand that flow. I have to say, workflow didn't change as much because we're always busy, but I did miss seeing other people. I'm a people person. I miss that interaction. But as far as the studio, it was a smooth transition. I care about how people feel these days, because of mental health, especially Zoom. I can do three Zooms in a row, but I need a 15-minute break after. I’ll even push calls unless it's with a client.

Marcel Ziul:

We had to adapt a little bit here and there, especially with the servers. I'm sure you guys have to do the same, but we had the system already set up. It wasn't that hard. The only big thing that happened was we signed a new lease for a new space a week before the lockdown.

Meryn Hayes:

No!

Marcel Ziul:

We have a new space that no one has ever been to.

Meryn Hayes:

Oh my gosh. That's wild.

Well, we are almost out of time, but I just want to say this was awesome. I am so looking forward to your presentation and hearing everybody celebrate and clap for you. We'll grab a beer after and celebrate. Thank you so much for giving all your insights. You have such an interesting story. I know everybody at the Bash is going to be stoked to hear what you have to say.

Marcel Ziul:

I'm super excited. I have so much respect for what you guys are doing, so whatever I can support I'll be up for it.

Meryn Hayes:

Thank you. We really appreciate that.

Marcel Ziul:

Bye Meryn, bye.

Meryn Hayes:

Bye.

Guest User 8/29/21 Guest User 8/29/21

Starting a Studio with OK Motion Club

dash’s Producer, Meryn Hayes, sat down with Dash Bash speakers, Amanda Schrembeck and Linda McNeil, of OK Motion Club.

OK Motion Club is an Atlanta-based animation studio that specializes in short-form content. Their goal is to empower other women, non-binary people, and minorities within the industry.

Q&A with OK Motion Club
Read time: 15 min

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Meryn Hayes:

I'm so glad that y'all are coming to speak at the festival. Before you signed on, the second y'all announced on Twitter that you were starting OK Motion Club, all of the women in our studio were like, "Oh my gosh, this is amazing." We’ve just fallen in love with the work and with you guys.

Amanda Schrembeck:

Linda was randomly like, "I feel like we should make a Twitter account." It ended up blowing up, more than most of our other channels. We were like, "maybe we should use this more."

Meryn Hayes:

Yeah, yeah. It was awesome.

Cool. Well, I will start, and I'll ask this of both of you. How did each of you get into motion design? What was your journey? How did you end up meeting? Linda, do you want to go first?

Linda McNeil:

Yeah. So I went to school for graphic design. When I graduated, I got an internship, which turned into a freelance position. It included a little bit of motion graphics. While I was working at that studio, I learned a lot more about the industry and got into it from there. That was ten years ago.

Meryn Hayes:

It’s always hard to believe how time flies.

Linda McNeil:

I know.

Amanda Schrembeck:

When I was a kid, I would mess around in PowerPoint and make animations. I downloaded Flash before it was Adobe Animate, and would just mess around with stuff. I think that was my first toe-dip into seeing what the medium could do. Then I actually went to school for printmaking, and quickly realized when I graduated there were not a ton of printmaking jobs out in the world, surprise, surprise. But I still love it dearly. I eventually ended up going into graphic design.

Through that, I don't know...one day, I was like, "I think I want to learn After Effects." So I opened the program and pretty quickly closed it because it was terrifying. But that was when I was a junior designer. I had more time at my job to mess around and learn things. I had also met Linda a few years before that. She and my husband worked at Huge together. So I feel like Linda was also a pretty big source of inspiration for me because I knew that she taught herself and I felt like I could also teach myself. So it went from there. Honestly, just curiosity and online tutorials.

Meryn Hayes:

That's awesome. Also, total aside, I went to school for photography, but I took one printmaking class. It was so much fun. I really feel like with what we do every day, everything digital and on the computer, the complete reverse of that is really tactile. It must be a really good outlet because you get the balance of both.

Amanda Schrembeck:

Yeah. I do miss it a lot. When you spend all day on the computer you do really miss just drawing, and physically printing something. Both of us have hobbies outside of doing this, and we both still have a passion for fine arts. So any way we can try and incorporate it is ideal. If it's through merch, or just having an experimental craft day, that's something we want to get into.

Meryn Hayes:

That's awesome. So, y'all had met, what was the point that you were like, "alright, we're going to start this thing together?"

Amanda Schrembeck:

I actually looked back at our messages the other day, just to...I don't know. You know when there are paths in your life where you have to make a decision that is going to drastically change your life trajectory? I did not think when we sent those messages to each other on Instagram that that was going to be one of those life-changing moments.

We followed Panimation, and they have the same goals as we do; trying to empower women and non-binary people within the industry. To showcase their skills. I think we realized there was nothing like that in Atlanta.

Linda McNeil:

We also just wanted there to be a space for us to experiment outside of work. To do animation and motion graphics more for fun. So when we first started just doing all of the OK Motion Club stuff, we were bouncing ideas off of each other, reaching out to illustrators that were local for collaboration. It really was just for fun.

Amanda Schrembeck:

Yeah. I don't think we realized it was going to turn into what it did. Obviously, I think it was in the back of our minds that it would be awesome if it became something bigger. But deep down, we just wanted it to be a space for us to share work and encourage each other to push ourselves forward. We weren't getting that at our jobs. That's still what it is for us. We want to make sure that we're always enjoying what we do, and that was something neither of us was getting in our nine to five jobs.

Meryn Hayes:

How did you initially set up time and make space to start that while you had nine to five’s and busy lives? Was it hard to get the inertia to really get started? Starting a business and branding yourselves, that's a lot to take on in addition to other work that you're doing and a life that you have.

Amanda Schrembeck:

I feel like it wasn't bad for me starting out. I was so motivated to WANT to work on something else, something that I was passionate about. So, I was excited to come home and make these projects. Also, just seeing the community’s response to them, that's a motivator too. You want to keep it going. But as time went on and it started to become more serious, probably something that we'll talk about at the festival, we realized that it could become a full-time job.

That's when it started to get really unmanageable. It was like, “okay, we got to make a website, we got to finish branding. We have to do all of the unexciting business stuff on the side of setting up an LLC, and a lot of other unknowns.” At that point, it felt like two full-time jobs. But we’re over that hump now.

Meryn Hayes:

Then what about the climate in Atlanta? Y'all said that there wasn't really a studio like this in the area. Is there a big animation, illustration, or general art presence? What's the scene there now? Did you immediately notice there was a space that needed to be filled?

Linda McNeil:

Yeah. There is a meetup in Atlanta called Ease ATL, which was a space for freelancers to get together pre-pandemic. Now it's a Slack channel, but they are about to start having talks again. We're actually doing one with them in September. But the space, there is also a studio called Awesome Inc. that is women run. It's an animation studio, but they do more classic cel frame animation. Work that you would see on Cartoon Network or Adult Swim. There really isn't a space for what we were looking to do, specifically for social content. Like a lot of the Instagram posts that we do, or any of the videos that we've posted. We really gear towards social.

Amanda Schrembeck:

Having worked at agencies, I think we have a pretty good understanding of what a lot of brands are looking for. Quick turn content and eye-catching stuff, which is what we consider as our bread and butter. There will always be a market for that in most cities, but Atlanta is growing as a city as well. It seems like it hasn't been slowing down the past year.

Meryn Hayes:

Yeah, something that we've noticed as well. We're in Raleigh, definitely smaller than Atlanta, not really a traditional place to be, like New York or LA. But, we've noticed which is being propelled further by the pandemic are these mid-market cities. Being a city in the south, it's not like we are traditionally well known for this type of work, it’s really come up in the past few years. Now, clients don't seem to care that you're not in New York or LA, and especially with Zoom, we can communicate anywhere. We can make art anywhere for anyone.

Amanda Schrembeck:

For sure. It's something good for small brands and freelancers that are trying to work with clients in bigger cities. Clients they never would have gotten the opportunity to work with because of where they’re located.

Meryn Hayes:

And it's contributing to the city itself, too. You're supporting the artists and the freelancers that are there while helping to propel the art and community further.

So it was a conscious decision when you started the studio to focus on short-form social content, is that right?

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Amanda Schrembeck:

I don't know if we specifically laid it out as, “this is what we're only going to do.” It's just, I don't want to say easier, because we do really intentionally think about the short-form content as much as we do long-form. But it's kind of nice to have smaller goals of, "I'm just going to work on this 15-second animation," then we can move onto another project. You have so many ideas, it's nice to not be tied up for a month working on a single long-form project. That's why I prefer it. We also are working on longer-form stuff that taps into a different area of your creativity and things that we want to do. There is a need for both, and we enjoy both, but we tend to do short form the most.

Linda McNeil:

Yeah, I do feel there is more area for creativity with short-form content. Especially because it's a bit more...the timelines aren't that great, so you do have to be creative with how you approach everything. You can't think of it as, "okay, I have these five weeks to work on this Instagram post." It's like, no, you have a week. What can you do in a week? It's like a shotgun challenge, which is really fun sometimes.

Meryn Hayes:

You're totally right, we work on all kinds of stuff, long and short-form. But some of the projects, no matter how long they are, clients will drag their feet. Sometimes it will take months. So the idea of timeboxing for your sanity is great.

Amanda Schrembeck:

It's a nice check box sometimes, but I do agree with what Linda said about creativity. We like to experiment a lot with new methods, or textures, whatever it is. It's so easy to do that with a short-form animation. We find that even doing weird stuff like that on our Instagram feed attracts clients. They'll message us and be like, "Oh, I saw this post that you did." Usually, it’s just a random, one-off idea that we had. We're able to get work from it because people are liking the things that we're messing around with. It can pay off to experiment with short projects.

Meryn Hayes:

I was going to ask y'all how you found your initial client base when getting started. Were there referrals? Or were people randomly dming you like that?

Linda McNeil:

We both had clients that we brought into the business. Once we did announce, we got a lot of responses, which is great. It's better than launching, and everyone is like, "great job," and you don't get it from anybody.

Amanda Schrembeck:

Definitely a lot of referrals from friends at past jobs as well. Most people know that networking and staying in touch with contacts go a long, long way. We still have the potential to work with the companies that both of us worked at as well. We still have good relationships there. I think we're just kind of navigating through all of the referrals and people who have recently contacted us. At some point, we'll probably start making a list of dream brands that we want to work with and figure out how we can get in contact with them.

Meryn Hayes:

That was another question I had. Is there a...maybe it's not a dream brand, but a dream project type or style? Is there something that y'all are really hoping to work on?

Linda McNeil:

I did some work for Vans. That was kind of a dream client scenario. They were awesome to work with. Another dream would be to work with any outdoor brand, like Patagonia or REI. Just because there is so much you can do with that.

Amanda Schrembeck:

Yeah, we keep throwing out that we really want to do a music video. But then we also realize that could be a four or five-minute-long video. I think we just really like the idea of animating to music, also I feel like most music videos are such an open playground for creativity. Bands let you interpret the music how you want. So I think that's an area that we would like to explore at some point. It just has to be the right fit, and of course, the right budget, because that's unfortunately the hardest part with a lot of musicians. They usually don't have a big budget for a project like that.

Meryn Hayes:

That's awesome. We're just starting to work with a client, they’re a corporate client in tech, and we're doing a narrative piece that turns into a music video. So it's funny that you mention that. Whenever we're done with it, depending on how it turns out, I'll share it with y'all.

Amanda Schrembeck:

Okay!

But yeah, it was one of those things that our team had been talking about. They always wanted to do a music video. It was just a weird opportunity that a corporate client would present us with this option. Right now, it's really stressful because we're trying to figure out how to shoot it, and we don't have any time. Given, we're also throwing a festival in whatever it is...six weeks? Eight weeks? But that's awesome.

Like you said, going back to combining passions of print or traditional design, incorporating music as a part of the work is so important and influential as well. Earlier when you were talking about new styles or trying new inspiration for something, where do y'all feel like you typically get your inspiration or references from?

Amanda Schrembeck:

Probably like most people, social media, or just hanging out with friends. Honestly, I personally like to surround myself with other talented people. Our friend group is so incredible. They tend to inspire me the most. You see them do something, and you're like, "oh, I would love to collaborate with them, or talk with them about something." It's important to not always pull from social media. Get some real-life experiences as well.

Meryn Hayes:

Then what about the name? Where did the name come from?

Amanda Schrembeck:

I was thinking this might be kind of funny to show at the conference, but I'm pretty certain that I was in Augusta. It was Christmas. Linda and I had already been talking about forming this group, but we didn't have a name for it. I was talking to my husband and I said, "what do you think about the name OK Motion Club?" It's like a collective, which is what we were going for. We were thinking that maybe we could add more members to it at some point. We're also not denying that we're not the most incredible animators yet. We still have room to grow. Don’t get me wrong, we think we're good, but there are also other amazingly talented people out there. He was like, "yeah, I think it's cool." I texted it to Linda and she had a very similar response.

Linda McNeil:

Yeah. Our original bio said something along the lines of, "we're pretty okay at animation." Which is like...

Amanda Schrembeck:

...I think underselling ourselves a bit. But we're just being sarcastic.

Linda McNeil:

Yeah. It's also interesting that the name dives into Imposter Syndrome and how people do describe their work. Most people don't say, "yeah, this was the coolest, I'm the best at what I do." Everyone is really humble when they talk about their work, which I think women do a lot, too. Just underselling our worth.

Amanda Schrembeck:

I feel like the name alone does create a little buzz. We have heard people talk about us without knowing who we are. Just really recognizing the brand name now, which is crazy. It's weird for it to be spreading like that. So I think all of that was intentionality around the name, and even the branding itself; the little okay smiley, things like that that we want to become recognizable. At least in Atlanta, but obviously hoping that it spreads further.

Meryn Hayes:

Yeah, that's great. That was one of the things that our team had talked about. The vibe of the studio is so great. And the branding. What was that process like? Did it come naturally as y'all were starting out?

Amanda Schrembeck:

Yeah. I took a crack at the branding because I have a background as a designer. So I sent stuff to Linda, and if she liked it we rolled with it. We still want it to be collaborative though. I want her to say if she has preferences about things. But at first, we went with more of a black letter typeface. We’re both really into skate culture, that's probably another dream project focus. Skate videos or something like that. But we moved away from that. I think pink is just an iconic, feminine color. But at the same time, we still wanted it to come across as not just two typical women. We’re both sarcastic, and kind of edgy, I guess? That sounds weird to say. Tomboy-ish? Something in that vein?

Linda McNeil:

We're not going to call each other girl boss or anything like that.

Amanda Schrembeck:

We wanted it to be a mix of both of those things. More gender-neutral, I guess.

Meryn Hayes:

Yeah, that's funny. Just having just met y'all, the aesthetic and vibe of the website and your branding do match very well.

Amanda Schrembeck:

Thanks.

Meryn Hayes:

We started talking about Imposter Syndrome. Getting into that a little bit more, how have y'all handled that? Sometimes I think to myself, "why does anyone give a shit about what I think?" How have y'all handled that in the past?

Linda McNeil:

Sometimes saying what you are thinking out loud helps. A lot of times, honestly, in our Slack channel, there is a lot of back and forth of me telling Amanda, "I don't know, I think this sucks, I don't think they're going to like this." She's just like, "I think this is awesome." Just vocalizing what your Imposter Syndrome brain is trying to tell you helps. Even when we were starting this, there was a lot of fear that led to the Imposter Syndrome. It's crazy that after 10 years of experience, I'm still like, "I don't know what I'm doing."

Amanda Schrembeck:

Because both of us left jobs that we were at for five years, you really feel like you can navigate that environment with your eyes closed. But then you think, "what if I leave here and suddenly I don't know how to work with other people in the industry? Maybe I only knew that environment really well.” I think that motivates me to want to try harder. To make sure I can prove myself wrong. To prove to these people that I can deliver on something.

The first freelance job I did after quitting my agency job sent me a message after it was done. They said something like, "oh, you've been so wonderful to work with. You've been awesome, and on top of it." Just a message like that is super reassuring that you did a good job, and it makes you want to keep going. Also, another one of the freelancers who, I think he thought I worked there, said, "you seem like you're the only one who knows what you're doing." That made me feel good.

Meryn Hayes:

Getting that feedback or validation is great.

Amanda Schrembeck:

That's really what it is. It’s just getting validation. It’s crazy that you can live in your own little bubble for a while, and be like, "do I actually know what I'm doing? Or am I good at this?" You are. You probably are.

Meryn Hayes:

Yeah. Linda, what you were saying. Saying the imposter feeling out loud. I don't think I've ever felt more like an imposter than when I became a mother. I think it's because nobody ever talked about how hard it was, right? So if you don't see that, you feel like it's just you. That you're the only person going through that hard time. So one of my goals as a working mother has been to talk about it so that when other people experience it, they don't feel the same isolation.

It's the same thing. If you talk about it, someone might see you're running this great studio, and you still question whether you're good enough, or if a client is going to like your work. Having other people see that vulnerability helps them, in turn, to be more able to handle their own Imposter Syndrome.

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Linda McNeil:

Totally. I think the thing that leads to the imposter syndrome is your doubt and fear of the unknown. Of not knowing what the reaction will be. Just accepting that any reaction is fine and that you'll get through it. There are so many business owners that I've talked to since we've started this that have gone through the worst. They've told us, "Once you go through the worst, you realize it's not that bad."

Meryn Hayes:

The other thing is, at some point, you realize that nobody knows what they're doing. It looks like they do, that also makes you feel like we're all just struggling together.

Linda McNeil:

Yeah, totally.

Meryn Hayes:

What about advice? This one was from one of our interns, she is graduating from SCAD next year. What would be a piece of advice you would give to young, female designers?

Amanda Schrembeck:

Are they an animator or designer? I mean, I guess it doesn't...

Meryn Hayes:

...She's a designer now. She does dabble in animation though and wants to get more into it.

Amanda Schrembeck:

What I learned the most was that unless you have a ton of amazing connections in the world with people that you've met in school, nobody is going to hand you a job. You have to work your ass off. I made a lot of fake projects to fill my portfolio with to show people I knew what I was doing. I knew that I knew what I was doing, but companies didn't. They needed something to go off of. It's true for animators too. Even if your reel looks a little slim, ask yourself, “what's missing? Do I have an explainer-type video? Do I have social content?”Just make up fake stuff. I think that almost goes further because it shows that you have the drive and motivation to want to do something on your own. You're not waiting for a project to fall in your lap.

The beginning is tough. You're trying to fill in all these gaps, it can be daunting and a lot all at once. Make a website, and market yourself, which feels kind of gross. You want people to recognize that you're good. Unfortunately, you have to put yourself out there, and really just make yourself look the way you want for companies. You also have to make sure that you're changing your stuff for different companies so that the company you're applying for feels like you genuinely are only looking at them. It's another unfortunate step that you have to take, but it goes a long way.

Meryn Hayes:

That's great. What about you, Linda?

Linda McNeil:

I agree with what Amanda was saying; putting out work that you want to do, making sure that your portfolio reflects the work that you want to be working on. There have been a few times where I've talked to recent grads that only have their school projects in their portfolio or on their site. It would include something that they're not super excited about. Don't put something on your site if you don't want to work on it. If you're not into UI animation, don't put it on your site. Also, take the first few years out of college to absorb as much as you can. You don't know what direction you're really going into until you start learning. I originally thought I wanted to go into packaging design when I graduated college.

Meryn Hayes:

That's something we talk with a lot of different people about on Clubhouse, or in doing these interviews. Something that’s so important that I've noticed when speaking to others in the industry is that when you get out of school, you have this idea of what you want to do. But in those early days, it's almost more important to figure out what you don't want to do. Very few people's paths are straight. A lot wind their way to where they are today.

I went to school for photography and realized I didn't want to move to New York City to become a freelance photographer like all my classmates. I had to completely pivot. Sometimes people think they're failures, or maybe they took a job and didn't like it. It's not a failure. It's just you pivoting your path in a different direction to help find what you want to do. That’s something that’s not talked about enough. It's not necessarily a failure, it’s finding your way to something you do want to do.

Amanda Schrembeck:

Yeah, I worked a couple of jobs right out of school that weren’t even related to the art industry. I was depressed for a while because I felt like I had just graduated and I was suddenly going to be in the career that I wanted to be in. But I used that as a motivator. “I have to get out of this. I have to do something because clearly just having a degree and a couple of school projects is not enough to get attention.” So it's the process of realizing, “okay, I need to change something.”

Meryn Hayes:

Yeah, that’s great.

One thing one of our illustrators noticed on y'all's website was you mentioned posting talks and workshops through initiatives like Ladies Wine and Design. Can y'all talk more about that?

Amanda Schrembeck:

We've actually done a few talks. I think the first one we did was with MODA.

Linda McNeil:

Yeah.

Amanda Schrembeck:

Or was there one before that? There may have been one before that, but Ladies Wine and Design is a chapter in Atlanta. There are multiple ones. A friend reached out for us to host a workshop for that. It ended up being over Zoom, because it was during the pandemic. She told us that it was the most people that had joined one of the talks. It was nice to be able to teach someone something, and also knowing that we were empowering other women and people within the industry.

We want to keep doing talks like that, and workshops, but it's hard to find time now for stuff like that when we're also trying to generate an income. People will still message us on Instagram even just for referrals of where we learned things. So if there’s any way we can share information of how we got started, those are amazing places to do it.

Meryn Hayes:

Do y'all feel like the questions that people have, or the topics that y'all hear about, have some common themes? Are people more interested in literally the work that y'all are doing, and workshopping how you make something? Or maybe how to start a studio? The business side? Or more of a smattering…?

Amanda Schrembeck:

All of it.

Meryn Hayes:

All of it?

Amanda Schrembeck:

Yeah.

Linda McNeil:

It’s definitely a mix of people in the classes. There are people who are like, "I've literally never touched animation ever. How does this even work?" So I think people are just curious about how we start on something. It's a difficult thing to try and put together because, in our heads, we've been doing this for so long. So it's asking ourselves how we distill it down for someone who has never even opened an animation program before. That can be fun to try and think about how to make it easy for someone to digest. Then we also get questions about who we are, and why we got started. Some might be considering going off on their own someday. It's a little bit of everything.

Meryn Hayes:

On that note, what type of advice would you have to other women or non-binary folks who are either taking the leap to go freelance or taking the leap to start a studio in such a straight, white, male-dominated field? Any advice on something that y'all have learned, or advice to other people as they are moving in that direction?

Linda McNeil:

The best advice is to reach out to people. Even if it's somebody that you think is only interested in illustration, or even a photographer, someone you can get creative jam time with. Honestly, when Amanda and I first met up, I wasn't even really aware she was animating. You learn so much from somebody that is also thinking the same creative thoughts you are. Having that space and awareness too, where it's outside of the white male perspective...

Amanda Schrembeck:

I would probably just say just put yourself out there. I have friends that, on Instagram, they're like, "Well, I make art. But I don't really share it." If you're serious about it, and you want people to take it seriously, you should make a separate account for it. That way you know when people follow you there or engage with you, the art is what they're there for. That was another big driver for us to start OK Motion Club. I felt like when I posted art, people didn't care about it.

Amanda Schrembeck:

I just wanted people to take it seriously. To realize that this was a real thing that I was doing. I found that it helped us a lot to separate the two. Putting yourself out there can be scary, but it can also give you validation of if what you're doing is the right thing to do.

Meryn Hayes:

Then what about advice or, I guess it's less advice, and more like what y'all's wishes would be. We've made a lot of headway in being more inclusive as an industry, it is still dominantly male, but we're making strides, especially with groups like Panimation. How do we continue that? How do we work to be more inclusive moving forward?

Amanda Schrembeck:

It sucks that we have to create these communities to showcase people's work that isn't white male. But yeah, people are having to do that to be able to shine a light on other individuals. It's on more popular platforms that white, cis, male-type work is typically being showcased. Making sure that it's a more equal mix, doing the research, and looking into people.

Panimation even had to do that as well. They weren't featuring People of Color for a really long time. It's easy to be like, "Well, there aren’t as many people online, or we can't find them." Well, look harder, or ask people, I don't know, put out a call for artists. Ask them to submit to you. I think there are other ways around it. You can't make an excuse for it.

Linda McNeil:

Yeah. There are ways to justify that kind of thinking, too, where it's like, "Well, we put it on Motionographer. No women or People of Color applied." That's not doing the work of just putting it all out there.

Amanda Schrembeck:

Are they able to find your call out?

Linda McNeil:

Really thinking along the lines of your work gets better when it's more diverse. All work gets better if it's coming from multiple viewpoints and multiple backgrounds. So, it's on all studios. Eventually, Amanda and I will have to hire, and we're aware we're two white women. So when we are hiring, we have to consider how we diversify that. I do want to mention, even when we were starting our website, we did kind of struggle with putting out us as a female animation studio, putting the name female in there. We were like, "Well, we don't really want to have to be known as an all female…”

Linda McNeil:

We don't want to identify, because, in a perfect world, we'd just be an animation studio. But we are different from most studios because we are two women.

Amanda Schrembeck:

It makes you feel a little icky. I mean, I'm proud of it. I'm definitely incredibly proud of us, but I also want people to come to us because they know we're talented and we're good at what we do. Not because they're like, "Oh, did you hear about the two women with an animation studio?" It's a strange thing to navigate. As long as we stay true to who we are, and make sure that the type of people we're working with genuinely recognize our talents, then it's someone that we'll want to start a relationship with.

Meryn Hayes:

That's really interesting. I totally get that. We shouldn't have to define ourselves. It shouldn't be a big deal, but it is because there aren't any female-owned and operated studios. My hope would be in the next few years that that's not what you're defined by, it's just the work that defines you.

Linda McNeil:

I will say the response hasn't been like, "Wow, look at these girls doing cool stuff." It's really like, "Look at this awesome studio." It's still a battle, but I do see that there has been change. There aren’t a lot of people reaching out like, "what's up, ladies?"

Meryn Hayes:

Just delete that email if you ever get it.

Let's see. What about anything, and maybe this is a boring business question, but has anything surprised you on the business end of starting the studio? Mack and Cory, dash’s co-founders, talk a lot about how they were animators, they weren't business owners. How did y'all navigate early on? Did you have help?.

Amanda Schrembeck:

We've had all of the help. But I also feel like the advice goes in one ear and out the other sometimes because it’s so much. My husband has started a couple of businesses, so he's definitely gone through it a few times. He tells me, he could literally sit me down and explain everything, and I'm just like, “I know that we need to know it, but I don't want to know it. It's not the fun part. I just want to be making things.” But it's fine, it definitely helps to have friends that have gone through it before or previous coworkers. You can pick their brain, which is incredibly helpful. But it's also tough. They don't really make it easy for you to try and figure out how to do it. Nobody can tell you how to do it the right way.

Linda McNeil:

Yeah. It's not how my brain usually works. The times we've met up to go over business stuff, I feel like I'd leave Amanda's house exhausted, because I’m just like, "Oh my god, why do I feel like I'm falling asleep?" We'd be talking for two hours about setting up the business. It's made me appreciate accountants and producers much more.

Amanda Schrembeck:

The most reassuring thing is when they say, "you can change this later on”, or, “you can figure this out later.” The most important thing is obviously bringing money into the business so sometimes we’ll circle back. We have quarterly calls with our tax guy now, where we're just like, "Please tell us that we're not..."

Linda McNeil:

“...That we're not going to get arrested.”

Amanda Schrembeck:

Yeah, getting arrested, or being criminals.

Meryn Hayes:

That's something that we have talked a lot about. You've got to think that during art school or programs that teach art, at some point, you're going to be doing something that you might need a little bit of that business background, right? If you're going freelance or starting a studio, you'll need to know that side. That’s just something that I think everyone who starts within this industry is just like, "Oh, shit, I don't know what I'm doing."

Amanda Schrembeck:

They really should make a business class specifically for artists.

Meryn Hayes:

You would think. We can make a lot of money if we went in on that because it is a huge need. But, to y'all's point, the community, and asking for help, everyone has had to figure it out. It's all about sharing the experience of, "Here is our scope. This might work for you." That common knowledge is awesome.

Cool. Well, I had one more question. Looking ahead, is there a goal that OK Motion Club is going to have X number of people, or going to be in a different city? Have y'all had any goals when you had started initially? Or is it more like, "We're just going to do this and see what happens?"

Amanda Schrembeck:

People keep asking us that, and I think we're just trying to figure out how to run this group with the two of us. We both are maybe scared, the bigger you get, the harder it is to control or make sure it has our seal of approval on everything.

Linda McNeil:

Yeah, we don't want to lose any of the integrity or the vibe of the company.

Amanda Schrembeck:

I don't know. It's our baby. How do you just give that away to other people? If we were to grow, I think it is inevitable at some point for us to eventually hire a few people. But I personally don't have a desire for it to become a massive company. At that point, it would completely change the culture from what we would want.

Linda McNeil:

Our goal right now is to have a studio space. Eventually, we would like to host events or little art shows. Just to have more of a space for people to meet up.

Amanda Schrembeck:

Yeah.

Meryn Hayes:

That's great.

Amanda Schrembeck:

It is cool, though, to be able to bring on other people that have similar backgrounds to us. People that fell into animation, and it became a passion for them. To be able to offer someone an awesome career like that, it’s an amazing thought. I hope that someday we can offer that to a few people, but it will be a very long, thought-out decision. It won't be easily made.

Meryn Hayes:

That stuff, for the most part, doesn't happen overnight. Well, speaking of meeting up, I am so excited to meet y'all in September and to hear more of your story and thoughts. Thanks for chatting with me today. This has been great. We'll talk soon.

Amanda Schrembeck and Linda McNeil:

Yeah, you too!

Guest User 8/24/21 Guest User 8/24/21

Takeover Tuesday with Marcelo Meijome

Q&A with Marcelo Meijome, a 3D and Motion Artist currently working at Varjo in Helsinki as a Senior Visual Designer.

Q&A with Marcelo Meijome
Read time: 5min

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Madison Caprara:

Hi, Marcelo! I’m excited to get to know you a little better. Could you give us a brief introduction to yourself and your work? How would you describe your style for the readers?

Marcelo Meijome:

Hello Madison! I’m a Visual and Motion Designer, currently based in Helsinki, Finland. Actually, soon to be based in Milan, Italy. I was born in the U.S. to an American mother and an Argentine father. Growing up, we moved around a lot, back and forth between the U.S. and Argentina. I guess that carried over as an adult and I find myself moving around with my wife every couple of years it seems!

My work and style have evolved quite a bit over time I think, and I try to experiment with everything from super-stylized work to realistic 3D art. One constant though has been the focus on motion and animation in my work. These days, I find myself making short animations with inanimate objects, such as chairs, and giving them some personality and life. There is something really satisfying about creating a clean, seamless looping animation.

Madison Caprara:
A bit of a nomad I see! Well, let’s get started. Who or what nurtured your initial creative spark? Did you have any early mentors?

Marcelo Meijome:

I would say my parents played a big part in nurturing my creative spark. They always encouraged me to draw growing up, they let me play a lot of video games, and we would watch a lot of animated movies together. It’s because of these things that I think I knew I wanted to somehow do something related to art and design.

An early mentor for me would be my college professor, Dan Baldwin. He had gotten his Master’s degree at SCAD and has so much great experience when it comes to design and illustration. He really helped to make my work better and to also do a lot of projects outside of the classroom which better prepared me for the agency/studio world after graduating.

Madison Caprara:

It’s always great when you have that initial support from your family. I imagine it makes it easier to go after the career you want. What has been your career path leading up to the present?

Marcelo Meijome:

Originally, I started in the Fine Arts program at Indiana University, but after a year I transferred to IUPUI in Indianapolis to pursue a program more focused on design and computer graphics. After graduating, I felt like I wanted to learn more about animation specifically, so I enrolled in Animation Mentor. While doing these online animation courses, I started working at a local Indianapolis creative agency called Vision Three. This is where I started to really develop a lot of my 3D and motion design skills. Over time, the work there transitioned to be heavily based on real-time interactive applications and virtual reality projects. That’s what led me to being contacted by Varjo in Helsinki to help design for their VR and Mixed Reality headsets. Besides the full-time work, I’ve also taken on a variety of freelance projects on the side when some fun or interesting opportunities pop up.

Madison Caprara:

So, what is it you exactly do for Varjo? Break it down for us!

Marcelo Meijome:

My role at Varjo has been that of a Senior Visual Designer. In practice, that means I help out with a wide range of design challenges and tasks, a bit of everything from UI design, to illustration, to virtual environment creation in Unreal, to motion design for interactive elements, to even functionality prototyping. This role has really given me a chance to improve on some of my core design and motion skills, but also learning and exploring more technical aspects like coding to make early-stage design prototypes. One of the challenges with designing for virtual or mixed reality is that there are no tools like Adobe Xd or Figma just yet to quickly prototype things, so there is a high learning curve for designers to learn something like Unity or Unreal to be able to create and validate their designs in VR. Hopefully, this barrier improves, but at least there are already some concepting tools in VR like Oculus Quill, Microsoft Maquette, and Gravity Sketch that can help with part of the process.

Madison Caprara:

Who has been one of your favorite clients to work with? This can include one you’ve linked up with during your time at Varjo, or even during personal work!

Marcelo Meijome:

I really enjoyed working on a project for Morton Salt. It was for a big interactive video wall at their HQ office in Chicago that was run on three Microsoft Kinect sensors doing full-body tracking. This combined a good amount of UI motion design work, but also creating motion and design for when the application was not in use, so when people would walk by the screens we could create interesting transitions and motion design that would follow the user around. Morton Salt surprisingly gave us pretty free reign when it came to some of this as long as we stayed on the brand colors, so I think we were able to come up with something really cool in the end. This is something I’d like to experiment with some more in something like a museum setting.

Madison Caprara:

That sounds absolutely wild! I didn’t know they were based in Chicago.

As a self-labeled “generalist,” what are your thoughts on the generalist vs specialist debate?

Marcelo Meijome:

I think there is definitely room for both, and they each have their own benefits. From my experience, it helps to try and specialize in a few related things. For example, a lot of motion design positions now require 3d experience. You don’t need to be an expert in the whole 3d software package, but it does require knowledge of many areas like animation, lighting, and rendering. It’s always good to keep an open mind and continually be learning new things, you never know when it might come in handy. This is especially true in smaller studios where you don’t have huge teams with lots of specialists.

Madison Caprara:

Sound like your preference definitely leans towards being a jack of all trades.

In your opinion, what are some things that the art and design world is too focused on, and on the flip side, what are we not focused on enough?

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Marcelo Meijome:

It feels like there’s a big focus these days on social media when it comes to art and design. Don’t get me wrong, there are definitely benefits to this, easier to get exposure, share work, get your art seen by a huge amount of people. At the same time, this makes it feel like there’s a constant pressure as an artist that you need to share your work online and promote yourself which can be super draining and leave you burnt out. Like with anything else, it’s about balance and using the tool for your benefit but not letting it control what you do or what kind of work you make.

On the flip side, I would say traditional design and art skills have lost some focus. Everything needs to be more instant these days, so people expect to learn some software quickly and then the great work will follow automatically. I think the understanding of design principles, shapes, color, form, etc are way more important in the end, and learning the software or tool is more secondary to that.

Madison Caprara:

You’re right, social media has its dark side, but it can also be crazy inspiring. I love the connections you can make with people and places all across the world. Where do you go for inspiration when the creative rut hits?

Marcelo Meijome:

The usual social channels of Twitter, Instagram, Dribbble, Behance, and Motionographer can be a good way to find inspiration and spark new ideas, lots of great work to be discovered. Besides that, I find a lot of inspiration from just going out and doing things, whether it’s taking a walk, going to a museum, or traveling, you’re bound to see inspiring things in architecture and nature. I usually get a new idea for a personal project when I’m doing something completely random!

Madison Caprara:

Speaking of random, what’s a skill you never anticipated needing within your career but have found you can’t work without?

Marcelo Meijome:

Organization skills have become crucial for me, and this applies to pretty much all areas of my work. In school, I thought I could just make cool things and then the final deliverable was all I needed, but I quickly realized how important it was to stay organized once I started working professionally; the organization of my files, being able to find things I need quickly, and archiving work that’s been done. Keeping my working files clean and tidy, naming all my layers, grouping things accordingly, color coding things. These are all especially important when working on projects with other artists. I try to hand off projects and assets in the way I would like to get them from others. The worst thing is getting a messy project or file that has things scattered all over.

Madison Caprara:
For curiosity’s sake, do you have any off-the-wall side hustles or hidden talents?

Marcelo Meijome:

I don’t really have any side hustles or hidden talents. I like to play soccer but haven’t found a way to get paid for that yet! I like to learn about history and lots of different topics, so maybe I know a lot of random facts or bits of info that occasionally come in handy!

Madison Caprara:

Is there anything special we can look forward to seeing from you?

Marcelo Meijome:

My dad passed away suddenly back in June this year, so I’ve taken a bit of a break from working on much personal stuff since that happened. I’ve been thinking and reflecting a lot about my dad during that time, what he meant to me and my family and our connection to Argentina. Hopefully, soon, I would like to create something as a tribute for him. He always supported me no matter what I wanted to do, and really pushed me to continue working on my art during the times that I wanted to quit and study something else. Besides this, I want to get back to making more weekly art posts and collaborate on projects with my wife where she will create music tracks and I’ll make an animation to go along with them.

Madison Caprara:

Oh man, Marcelo. I’m truly sorry to hear about your father’s passing. My condolences to you and your family. If you plan on sharing your memorial project with the public, I’d love to see it.

We’re reaching the end of our time. Do you have any closing advice or maybe a statement you would like to share?

Marcelo Meijome:

Try to set aside some time for personal projects when possible. I know it’s not always easy to find the time or motivation to do these, I struggled for a long time with this too, starting lots of things but never finishing them. Start with small and short goals and try not to focus too much on making things perfect. Experiment with different styles and techniques! Almost all the freelance work I’ve ever gotten came as a result of someone seeing some of my more fun personal work. Just be careful to maintain a good balance with your personal life as well, it’s also ok to take breaks and not always feel like you have to be working.

Guest User 8/22/21 Guest User 8/22/21

Interview with Dash Bash Speaker, Sekani Solomon

We sat down with Dash Bash speaker, Sekani Solomon to speak on the pressures of being an international student, the importance of scoring internship opportunities, and the difficulties of securing a visa in the U.S.

Sekani is an award-winning Motion Design Lead and Creative Director at Cash App.

Q&A with Sekani Solomon
Read time: 20 min

Sekani Solomon:

Let’s do it.

Mack Garrison:

Let's do it!

All right. I'm joined now by Sekani Solomon. Sekani's an award-winning Motion Design Lead and Creative Director based in New York City, hailing from the twin-island Republic of Trinidad and Tobago. Sekani's diverse skill set in design, animation, and compositing allow him to work at any stage of the production pipeline with a high level of proficiency. He currently leads motion design at Cash App. Welcome to the conversation, Sekani. It's so great to meet you finally.

Sekani Solomon:

Thanks for having me, Mack!

Mack Garrison:

I would be lying if I said I wasn't thrilled and excited to be having you part of the Dash Bash this September. We have such a great lineup, and I'm looking forward to it, particularly after a year of so much isolation. To be able to get the motion crew back together to all hang out again, it's going to be a blast.

Sekani Solomon:

Oh my God. I know. Just seeing people in person in the same building is going to be wild, much less a bunch of motion designers, so I'm pretty excited.

Mack Garrison:

Exactly, exactly.

To start, I'd love to know how you found your way into motion design initially. This is such a melting pot of people with different backgrounds. We have graphic designers, illustrators, coders, and all find their way into motion design. How did you find your way into this career path?

Sekani Solomon:

Like a lot of people, almost by accident. A process of discovery. When I was younger, I used to do a lot of creative things. I made toys using just cardboard and tape. I always wanted to make the stuff I saw on TV. When I was around 14ish, I discovered Photoshop. That was my first gateway to making things digitally because again, the aim was always to make stuff that I saw on TV. This was 2004, they had zero to little resources to create this stuff.

Sekani Solomon:

Eventually, I pivoted and wanted to become a software engineer. Throughout my entire time in high school, I didn't take any art classes.

I was just doing the sciences. In 2008, one of my teachers was working on the high school's website, and I was like, "Well, I did some Photoshop back in the day. Maybe I could help." When I got back online, the learning resources were more...you just had a lot more options. From there, it was a quick process of discovery. That's how I discovered the industry. Photoshop first, AfterEffects, then Cinema, finally going into 3D. It's like this sandbox. You can create anything. That opened my mind up to wanting to create.

Sekani Solomon:

From there, I didn't even know I was doing motion design. I just wanted to make cool stuff. When it was time for college applications, I was still going to apply to be a software engineer.

Mack Garrison:

Oh, wow.

Sekani Solomon:

Then it went quickly from software engineer to graphic designer, then fully graphic design because no one's saying, "Hey, you could have a career in the arts." I didn't know a single person that was doing it professionally.

Mack Garrison:

Right. Everyone who I knew who was doing art professionally was into the fine arts. I didn't know there was a similar purpose to what we were doing, which was so interesting.

Sekani Solomon:

Exactly! Especially in Tobago. It's a small island of 50,000. Very few people do this type of stuff, but I knew I was super passionate about it. I figured, "Well if I'm doing this in my free time, I might as well pursue it and see where it goes."

“…the advantage of an internship, especially when you're in school, is it allows you to fail in a safe environment.”

Mack Garrison:

That's so great. I know you said there weren’t a ton of people doing it in Tobago, but was there any community? Were you able to find some other folks there who were dabbling in motion design?

Sekani Solomon:

Yeah, there were a lot of hobbyists and a few guys who were doing it professionally. I soaked in as much knowledge from them as I could, and they helped to steer me in the right direction. But I always wanted to keep pushing it, and pushing it, and pushing it, which led me to where I am today.

Mack Garrison:

I know you're up in New York City now. I imagine there was a decision made at some point, where you were like, "Wow, okay. If I want to push into motion design, I need to move on from Tobago and maybe go to the States or something like that." When was that moment? Maybe after school?

Sekani Solomon:

It happened when I was around 19. Because we're in the British school system, you can either do five years in high school or seven years within advanced courses. I did seven years in high school, so when I graduated, I was 19 and was trying to figure out my life.

Mack Garrison:

Like every 19-year-old, right?

Sekani Solomon:

Yeah! There's no prescribed course you need to take. Once I settled on wanting to pursue art, it was just a matter of finding the school. Also, trying to figure out a way to get to the U.S., because I knew that ultimately that was the place I needed to be. Fortunately, I had applied to SCAD and I got a scholarship there. I also got a scholarship from Tobago, and my parents paid the rest of the money. I was very lucky to be able to go to school at the Savannah College of Art and Design.

Sekani Solomon:

Coming from the Caribbean to the U.S., I thought everyone was going to be a beast. However, when I got there, I found out that a lot of people were just 19 or 18 trying to figure out what they wanted to do and hadn’t opened the software yet. So I was a little more advanced than a lot of my classmates. I was also older when I started. In my freshman year, I was 20 whereas most people are 18. Even so, the mission was always to get a job before graduating, because coming to the States is one thing, and staying in the States...

Mack Garrison:

...Staying in the States is another, right. Got to get that visa.

“…if you don't land that job in the first year, you're going home.”

Sekani Solomon:

Exactly. I did four internships while I was at SCAD. I worked at Loyalkaspar, which is a broadcast studio based in New York, Gentleman Scholar, The Mill, and Imaginary Forces, where I ended up taking a staff position there.

Mack Garrison:

Awesome. That's so great. I think there's something to be said when you're coming into an education system with a little bit of an older perspective. I was the same way. I didn't get into design until I was about 20 years old as well, maybe even 21 at the time honestly. So when I did get in, I ended up at the College of Design at NC State University. It was the same deal.

While there were a lot of students around me who were still figuring their stuff out, maybe going out and partying, my focus was definitely on school. I was like, "I got all the ‘figuring things out’ done earlier. This is what I want to do." I think that gives you an edge as far as staying driven and capturing some of the available internships.

Sekani Solomon:
A lot of the money for college is put into the opportunities. They bridge that gap between you and the studios. You’ll have these studios coming directly to the school for career day and all of that. All you have to do is present the best work to get the internships, so it was really up to me from that perspective. I just needed to perform well. I wanted to maximize that opportunity and get as much experience as I could because the advantage of an internship, especially when you're in school, is it allows you to fail in a safe environment. Even if you're a junior designer, once you've stepped into that professional realm, there are more stakes versus as an intern. Getting to learn in that environment was a good experience.

Mack Garrison:

I think you also had a certain level of pressure sitting on you. You may have a lot of these American kids who, if it doesn't work out, will figure something else out. But for you, you were looking at this as your sole path and career. You knew you wanted to be here, and you needed to get connected with jobs to get a visa. So there was this extra pressure to make sure that you were on top of your game at every point of the way. Always sticking out, securing that next job, things like that. That had to be stressful, I would imagine, and all while you're in school.

Sekani Solomon:

Yeah, I mean it's like if you don't land that job in that first year, you're going home.

Mack Garrison:

Oh, man. That's so crazy.

Sekani Solomon:

This is how wild it is. Not only do you have to get a job, but you also have to get a job that's willing to sponsor your visa. The usual visa most people get is an H-1B. Because so many people apply for that visa, it's a lottery. Even if you do everything right, the best chance you have is a one in four chance of getting picked in that lottery.

I think I applied for that particular visa twice and didn't get it. What I ended up having to do was get another visa called an O-1 visa, which is a more merit-based visa. They make a case for you to show that you're extraordinary in visual. It's a whole process that’s tricky to navigate. Even if you're doing everything you're supposed to, you could still be unlucky and go home.

Mack Garrison:

How much of that process did the companies you were working for help you with? Or did you have to advocate for yourself and educate on the different ways you could stay?

Sekani Solomon:

For the H-1Bs, I got full support from Imaginary Forces. They took care of everything in terms of the application. For the O-1 visa, I decided to take that cost on myself. Just in case I wanted to leave, I didn't want any strings attached, you know what I mean?

It was fine. They were super supportive in terms of providing the information and all that stuff. You have to get...I think it was seven to ten recommendations from other people in the industry. That's why all of those internships were important. I met a lot of people that could vouch for me. If you're not thinking ahead and planning, it could be difficult.

Mack Garrison:

Interesting. Well, it's a great conversation point because I think the perfect example is me as a studio owner at dash. We're a small crew. We only have like 12 people, compared to Imaginary Forces who have a crew of folks up there. As a result, it's not that we couldn't offer an H-B1 visa, but there's more legwork that goes into it when you're a smaller shop.

Mack Garrison:

You bring up a good point that when you're an international student studying in the States, it almost has to be a prerequisite for every place that you're talking to. To be like, "Could you sponsor an H-B1 visa? Are you open to that? Are you prepared to do that?" Because if that is critical, then you only have what...three or four years of internships before you need to land that full-time gig? So every opportunity you have becomes that more important. That seems like a lot of pressure.

Sekani Solomon:

100%. It's the pressure of making good work and progressing in your craft while staying in the States. Fortunately, it worked out.

Mack Garrison:

It did. It did.

Sekani Solomon:

And now, we're here.

Mack Garrison:

Well, I love the background on it because it's something that I think a lot of folks are familiar with, at least that visas are a thing, but the process of it and understanding the back end is really interesting to know as well.

So, you get in. You're with Imaginary Forces. What's the course of action from there to Cash App? You’re putting out some fantastic work with them. Were you going freelance in between those two? Did you go straight to Cash App? How'd you end up getting to where you are now?

Sekani Solomon:

I enjoyed my time at Imaginary Forces. Definitely learned a ton there and worked on a variety of different projects, from main titles to commercials to stuff on the big screen. There just comes a time when you have to look at the value of what you’re offering. You have to figure out how to extract more value for the time that you're spending because when you're staff, sometimes you’ll see a freelancer come in, do less work, and get paid twice as much. Then you're like, "Uh..?"

Mack Garrison:

You're like, "Wait a minute."

Sekani Solomon:

Exactly. It was time to spread my wings. To work with a couple of other companies to see what's out there, but also to have more control over my salary and the value that I brought. I left Imaginary in 2016 and freelanced for a bit. Pretty much worked with all the studios: BUCK, Psyop, Method, Gentleman Scholar.

“there comes a time when you have to look at the value of what you’re offering. you have to figure out how to extract more value for the time that you're spending...”

Mack Garrison:

Making your rounds.

Sekani Solomon:

Yeah, and in 2018, I think this was shortly after I had released Hidden, I got an email from Apple and ended up doing a couple of months over there in the Bay Area. It was my first real taste of in-house tech, and a completely different universe.

Mack Garrison:

Oh, yeah. Totally new vibe.

Sekani Solomon:

For better or worse in some ways. It was like this ‘coming to light’ moment where you're like, "Oh, wow. There's this whole other line of work where people are working more reasonable hours. People come in from 10:00 to 5:00. They're getting paid more." The only tricky thing with Apple is that the work's a bit more restrained. They have their own established way of doing things. You don't always have the kind of flexibility you might have at some other shops. Then the question was, "There's this whole other way to work, but do I want to sacrifice the work I was doing?"

Mack Garrison:

It's almost like it was a shot at your creativity. You were having a nice work-life balance, I'm sure you were getting paid really well, but then there was this push, of course, that we all have as creative individuals. What can we do differently? Can we try something new? And you were probably getting pushed into some of the same directions over and over again.

Sekani Solomon:

Exactly. The way I was rationalizing it to myself was that I could make a bunch of personal projects because I had more time. Also, having come from New York, I was not a fan of the Bay Area. It was such a contrast, especially in Mountain View, Sunnyvale. It's really chill. That was an adjustment. So I went back to New York after that and ended up working on a job for a tech company through a studio.

Mack Garrison:

Oh, man. That's so funny. You can never get away from tech when you're in the animation industry.

Sekani Solomon:

Right? That project, in particular, was just terrible because the creative changed every day and you had to work long hours. I was also thinking, "Oh, wow. I was just working on the client-side, now I'm back on the vendor side." It was just leveraging where I wanted to be, and it wasn’t there. It had to feel like the right opportunity because it's not just about the money, you also want to make good work.

Luckily enough, I got a cold call on LinkedIn from a recruiter about a position at Cash App. I wasn't even really familiar with the company at that point. I think I responded a week and a half later. I went into the office, met with some people, and I thought it was pretty awesome what they were trying to build. I ended up starting freelance there in late 2018. When I got the position, they were just like, "Yeah, make it weirder. Make it wilder."

Mack Garrison:

You're like, "Whoa. This is a big company telling me to make it weirder and wilder." I love it.

Sekani Solomon:

Yeah, and the thing is because Cash App was a small startup company within a larger company (Square), it felt like a small studio. It was pretty unique. After being there for about a month and a half, I ended up taking a staff position because I was like, "Oh, yeah, this is-"

Mack Garrison:

This is amazing.

Sekani Solomon:

Yeah, this is pretty new. Since then, it’s been about continuously creating really, really good work. Now, we've been scaling quite a bit this year, so...

Mack Garrison:

It just seems like you're always putting out something new and incredibly unique with them. I know, from just another creative perspective, to be working for a company that embraces pushing the boundaries of what's possible...that's just the ideal client. I've talked to other studio owners and creators, and there's always a question: Who would be your dream client, or who is the group that you want to work with? Everyone resoundingly says that it's less about the subject and more about having a good partnership with the clients that you're working with.

I think if someone believes in what you can do and what you can bring to the table; if they trust you, your opinion, and knowledge within the industry, you're inevitably going to have some of the best work that's out there regardless of what industry it lives in. Also, it helps that animation is such a great conduit for explaining complex materials. I think about what Cash App does and some of the things they're trying to get around seem like a perfect match for you to push the boundaries and create cool stuff.

“it should always be rooted in an idea and concept that ties back to the brand. the visuals are just a mechanism you use to tell that story or to deliver that concept…the last thing you want to have are just pretty, arbitrary visuals.”

Sekani Solomon:

Absolutely! You see companies, like Microsoft especially, working closely with studios like Tendril and BUCK to create these insane videos to depict their software. I'm really glad to see the companies at this scale embrace these types of visuals because, as you were saying, it does help to communicate and bring excitement and anticipation to the products that they're making. And that can be wild.

Mack Garrison:

What do you think was the biggest factor in making that happen? Because you're right, I've seen it trending. You see Tendril coming out with it. You see other companies watching what they've done for Microsoft, and folks try to replicate that ambient 3D style. What do you think it was that made that big switch? Is it just companies at this point just trying to be as different from one another as possible and things feeling too similar to one another?

Sekani Solomon:

I think a lot of it has to do with social media and the way we ingest content. People are now used to seeing really artful, different things on their social feeds. If you have that cookie-cutter ad, is it going to appeal? I don't know. Also, you don't have to be as scared to try different things because I think people are more used to seeing visuals that feel different. I just think it required some boldness on the client’s part to approve that “something”.

Mack Garrison:

I think one thing you mentioned, which helps a lot, is that you have a foundation with a client who is open to different things. I'm just curious about your take on this. When you're pitching something that's really out there, even at Cash App, I'm sure there are some projects where you're like, "wow, this idea that I have is super strange," or, "super weird." What are some of the steps you take before you bring that idea to the table? Just for any other designers that might be reading this blog later on, what are some things they should consider before bringing something a little bit more out there to a client to try to win them over on it?

Sekani Solomon:

Well, the first thing for me is that it should always be rooted in an idea and a concept that ties back to the brand. The visuals are just a mechanism you use to tell that story or to deliver that concept. For me, that's the fundamental thing. If the idea isn't clear, then that's when it gets lost because the last thing you want to have are just pretty, arbitrary visuals.

I think here, in particular, I'm a bit lucky because that's part of the brand. If there's not a quirk to it, it might feel a little bit off-brand. The challenge is making something that feels strange while still communicating a message. That's a very fine line. It's easy to go weird, and no one gets it or it’s too literal and it’s kind of meh. It's about trying to find the right balance.

Sekani Solomon:

Also, creating things that still feel fresh and new, especially because we're exposed to way more 3D than I think we have been over the years. People have seen stuff. Things are beginning to feel familiar, so how do you keep projects feeling fresh? How do you explore different aesthetics while still meeting the business goals?

Mack Garrison:

Right. It's like this rubber band. You push creative, but then it's got to come back a little bit because it's too far out there. Then, a business tries to pull it back, and it's constantly slowly pulling on each other's sides and moving the process along. It's good to think about.

You mentioned something a second ago at the end of that, which I thought was interesting too. How do you keep stuff fresh, right? How do you find new inspiration? Do you have avenues that you go down when you're just trying to brainstorm ideas? Is it moving away from video and looking at more print, illustrations, and things like that to bring those concepts in? When you have a new project and you're thinking about how you want to approach it, what are some paths that you do for finding inspiration?

Sekani Solomon:

I look a lot at sculptures, architecture, pottery, that type of stuff. I try to get a balance between looking at motion design references, but also real-world things for form, shape, and texture. Motion design inspiration is really good, of course, but if you’re only looking at motion design references, then you're going to keep creating similar things. It's very challenging to create something that feels fresh. Almost everything has been done already.

It's also about bringing your own voice into it. Your spin on whatever that thing is and trying to find a way to push it forward. To make it a little more unique, because even the stuff that you're referencing, someone did that before. You just took it and made it your own. That's fine too. Nothing needs to be the most original thing, but it needs to be...you could take an idea and tweak it 20%, and it feels entirely new because the context is different. That's one way I like to look at things. If the context and idea are different, then I think that does change it a lot.

Mack Garrison:

That's interesting. I love the idea of talking about looking at more traditional mediums, like sculpture, right? Particularly as we think about 3D, modeling, and creating something unique, you can almost look at some of the traditional principles. Ground something, but then because animation can do whatever you want it to, ask yourself how you can break some of the rules that come along with it. That's really cool.

Mack Garrison:

Let's pivot the conversation a little bit. One thing I wanted to ask you about, just because I know you've been really involved in the scene, is non-fungible tokens, NFTs. I felt like I could not get on Twitter, Instagram, or anything for the longest time without hearing something about NFTs. I know there was a huge spike in popularity. It seemed like everyone was participating. They’re still popular, but felt like there's a little more of a dip than there was a few months ago. What are your thoughts on the NFT industry? Do you think that's something that's going to stick around? Are people still trying to figure it out a little bit?

Sekani Solomon:

Yeah, I think NFTs are definitely here to stay, they’re just moderated from what they were a couple of months ago, which was just absolute lunacy. It was ridiculous.

Mack Garrison:

There was just a ludicrous amount of content being made.

Sekani Solomon:

Yeah. I mean I get it. If you're seeing people posting, "Oh, I made $10K. Oh, I made $20K. Oh, I made $50K," naturally it's going to generate a certain level of FOMO that no matter how confident or strong you are, you might fall prey to. Even for me, it was like, "Oh, someone could do a low-effort NFT and make 100 grand. Why don't I do that?"

Mack Garrison:

Yeah. What am I doing, right? You're like, "I'm pilling around making stuff anyway on a Saturday night. Might as well throw this up there and see what I can get."

Sekani Solomon:

Exactly. So, I think they’re here to stay. It's good because it's another avenue where people could generate value for their art, but, for me, it's tricky because it's hard to figure out how people value the work. In some ways, in fact in a lot of ways, it mirrors the actual art world. There's a lot of speculation. It's all about the actual artist. From that perspective, it's not necessarily new. What's new is that it's in the digital realm.

For us who are more commercial artists, having that experience of what more fine artists have to go through was super eye-opening. You have to remind yourself it's not necessarily just about the quality work you do, but also how people perceive it. Whether it's from a speculative standpoint or a, “oh, this is really cool” standpoint. You just have to go into it with low expectations, that's the mentally sound way. Even for me, I made some stuff, and I was like, "I have nothing to lose, so I'm just going to go high and see what happens." Then nothing was sold. I was like-

Mack Garrison:

Oh.

Sekani Solomon:

Very humbling.

Mack Garrison:

It's wild. It's such a hype business, right? If there's hype around something or people are excited about something, it builds it up. People feel like it's going to be rare, that this is a moment and they want to be a part of it. That, to me, is very similar to the art world. I even remember I had this internship early on at this art gallery called The Mahler in Downtown Raleigh. Seeing some of the artwork and how certain artists were valued more than others, and both of them would have the same quality, just with different styles. One artist had more hype that went around them, so when their pieces would get in there, people would come and buy them. It's kind of crazy because both pieces looked good. It's so subjective. To your point, it's now translating into the digital world. That's really interesting.

Mack Garrison:

I haven't done any of the NFT stuff, but what I am excited about is motion design being used outside of traditional deliverables, right? We always have these projects, where it's like, "let's make this video for the purpose of selling or advertising," or, "to live on Facebook.” For me, the thing that I get excited about with motion design is what the future can be. How do we start using it in nontraditional ways? What could we do to activate a space with motion design, or with NFTs? Now people are purchasing it as artwork. It creates a different avenue to utilize it.

That's what's really exciting because while motion design is very new, for the last decade or so the deliverables that we've been creating with it, at least on the commercial side, have been pretty consistent. To have this kind of influx of new energy coming in and a new deliverable...I think it's going to get people excited and also start to get people asking the question. It's like, "Well, okay, if NFTs are happening, what else can be out there? What else could we be doing with motion design?" Which I think is unique too.

Sekani Solomon:

Because now you're creating work solely just to create work. You can express who you are as an artist without the constraints of having to meet business needs or anything else that could be a constraint.

Mack Garrison:

Exactly. Well, that's a good segway to what you think the future of motion design looks like. What are your thoughts, Sekani? As we start to look ahead to where we're going and what we're doing, do you have any idea what might be popular here soon?

Sekani Solomon:

Yeah. Well, the good news is that motion design is everywhere because for the last, I want to say, 18 months, we've been adjusting to our new world. Doing that usually requires motion or some type of animation, so I think there are even more opportunities for people to enter the space. The problem is that people's attention spans are so short that now, especially from a commercial standpoint, when you're creating content, you need to design it in a way to capture people's attention depending on what platform you're putting it out on. It's not like the days where you could just drop something on Vimeo, and people will sit for five whole minutes straight.

Mack Garrison:

They'll leave after ten seconds if it's not exciting.

Sekani Solomon:

Exactly. Now, especially with advertising and designing for social media, it's like you’ve got to capture people within that first two to three seconds or you lose them, which is a challenge in itself. How do you make good content and have visual storytelling with those parameters? That's a good challenge, but there's still traditional media, like TV and YouTube which I think are helpful. You can work with longer durations, like ten to fifteen seconds.

Mack Garrison:

Well, it's interesting. It's almost like I've seen it becoming popular in two instances. You either have a demographic that wants something that's 30 seconds long, and you aim for 30 seconds. Or, conversely, it's really long. Something more like episodic content where you're talking about people watching tutorials or they're looking at brands like they've looked at Netflix and Hulu. Somewhere people will go to stream a TV show they watch. They're going to start doing the same thing with brands that they're interested in.

I know at least from a studio perspective, we've been getting a lot more work. People are trying to become subject matter experts in things or they’re putting out a series of videos that are a bit longer. To your point, you're either trying to do everything you can to condense a story down to be as short as possible or you're working with something that's minutes worth of content. I'm trying to figure out how I can animate something that long.

“I try to get a balance between looking at motion design references, but also real-world things for form, shape, and texture. motion design inspiration is good, but if you’re only looking at motion design references, you're going to keep creating similar things.”

Sekani Solomon:

Right, exactly. This is the thing. I was speaking more to the commercial space, but also, if you're a content creator, people are now looking for good content. If you always just want to make animated videos of longer durations, there are opportunities to do that as well. The bottom line is people are way more receptive to content than they think. Almost every company wants it in some form or fashion. It's just a great time to be involved, especially with the software becoming easier to pick up.

Mack Garrison:

Oh, yeah, and accessible. It's not as expensive anymore. I mean, Scene Cinema 4D dropped in prices. Even Adobe came down. I've never seen more motion designers coming into the space than ever before right now. Particularly with programs like School of Motion, MoGraph Mentor, and the education that's surrounding it now. It feels more achievable for anybody than it was when we were first coming up, which is cool.

Sekani Solomon:

For us, just from the hardware perspective, you can enter because you’re needed... A lot of renderers were CPU-based, so if you needed to scale the power, you needed to buy another machine versus buying another GPU. From that standpoint, it's a really good time. The cost of entry is dramatically reduced.

Mack Garrison:

It's probably why you're seeing more freelancers too. I didn't even think about that.

All right. Well, Sekani, I don't want to give away too much because you're going to be talking here in about a month and change or so. Any little tidbits or secrets you want to share on what you're thinking about talking towards at the Dash Bash this year?

Sekani Solomon:

Yeah, I think a lot of it is going to be about my journey and how I approach the work to make it unique and stand out. I want to talk a little bit about the process because it’s nice to show the fancy visuals, but it's also nice to show how we got there. I think just showing my journey is also important, especially as a Person of Color in a field that's not necessarily very diverse to showcase that you can make it. Obviously, it does require a lot of work, but there are so many opportunities that exist that people just aren't aware of. Yeah, I think it just would be good to elaborate on that a little bit.

Mack Garrison:

I think that's great. We want this festival to be inspiring, but also honest. I love our industry, but there's clearly a racial gap in creative leadership. As we look ahead to the future, motion design is changing. It's going to be changed. It only makes sense that we put people in the forefront who we know are creative leaders and we know are changing the game, and Sekani, I think that's you, bud. So we're excited to have you be a part of our festival!

Sekani Solomon:

I'm very excited. It's interesting. Even though motion design is more accessible, I think in some ways, it could be more difficult. Now you have so much access to the software and the tools, but people aren't learning the things that make motion design great; the storytelling, conceptualizing, design. Those are the fundamentals. You might be using Cinema 4D today, but if another tool were to come out 10 years, 15 years from now, we would have to switch into that.

It also serves as a means to get the idea out of your head, and that's where I always start every project. What's the idea? What are the concepts? And you kind of shape everything around that. That's also something I want to touch on in the presentation; ideas first, concepts, and learning that skill is important. Especially being in a leadership role, so much of the job you would know this, Mack, is just communication and articulating ideas.

Mack Garrison:

Oh, yeah. 100%. 100%.

One of our foundational points to get a job at dash, we have some core attributes, one of them is being gregarious. Not necessarily being outgoing or talkative, but particularly as it relates to design. You have to be able to explain why you did something, your reasoning behind it, why you believe that this is the answer to the problem at hand because, yes, we're making cool stuff. At a foundational level, people are paying us because they have a problem at hand and need us to solve it creatively, right? So, to have staff able to talk through the reasoning of why they're making certain choices and why those choices are solving a problem...that's how you move forward. That's how you get bigger and better projects. So I totally agree with that comment.

Sekani Solomon:

A good thing is, there are a lot more resources. I think it requires more diligence. Again, with School of Motion and all those different avenues, if you're interested you can learn all the things. It's so nuanced and based on that individual's perspective too because I think that's the thing that makes a motion designer unique is your ideas and the way that you approach the work.

Sekani Solomon:

That's why when approaching a project, I learned the process from conceptualization to the final product. That's how I started in motion design when I was younger. I made my own projects, which I think have helped me. Especially now, I could do a deck and I could be like, "Well, this is the concept," as a base for people to work from, but I could also jump in and create stuff. It's been helpful for me.

Mack Garrison:

Ah, that's great. Sekani, I'm so pumped for the conversations here in September. Really enjoyed this conversation. It was so nice to meet you in person. There are so many folks I’ve followed for a number of years, but I have no idea what they sound like or look like, so it's always great to have a quick chat. Particularly before you're coming down here and hanging out with us for a few days!

Sekani Solomon:

Yeah, it's going to be fun, Mack. I'm looking forward to it!

Guest User 8/10/21 Guest User 8/10/21

Takeover Tuesday with Phoenix Owens

Q&A with Phoenix Owens, an LA-based Motion Designer, Illustrator, and self-dubbed GIF Master.

Q&A with Phoenix Owens
Read time: 10min

Madison Caprara:

Hey, Phoenix! Why don’t you give us a little introduction to yourself and your work? How would you describe your style?

Phoenix Owens:

Hi, y'all! Thank you so much for having me. My name is Phoenix Owens, I’m an Illustrator, Designer, and occasional Animator. I am originally from a small town in Georgia called Kennesaw but now reside in Los Angeles. I exchanged the yellow pollen for the sunny skies and am loving it!

I graduated from Otis College of Art and Design in 2016, majoring in Digital Media with a focus in Motion Graphics. Now post-graduation, I’ve been working in the design industry for the past five years. I would describe my style as a happy accident that came about by a lot of trial and error. Within my pieces, you will find elongated and curvy body proportions which is a common characteristic that is found in Black excellence, beauty, and acceptance. Additionally, I showcase powerful women. This is a nod to being raised by two remarkable women: my Japanese grandmother, and biracial mother.

Madison Caprara:
I definitely noticed those themes in your personal, illustrative work. It’s great to get a little background on that!

Having graduated from Otis College of Art and Design, what are your thoughts on pursuing a formal education within this industry? Necessary or not?

Phoenix Owens:

I think each person has to answer that question for themselves. Personally, going to art school was necessary to awaken my creative potential. I liken it to those martial arts movies like The 36th Chamber of Shaolin where the protagonist enters the Shaolin training facility to become a better martial artist; I had to do that for myself. I knew if I tried it out on my own, I would find an excuse to give up.

Going to Otis helped me develop the artistic discipline necessary to become successful. Art school is expensive, but it was a worthwhile investment for me. Now I know people who didn’t attend college and are doing great in the industry. My advice is to determine your path and be devoted to your journey no matter what others say.

Madison Caprara:

Other than gaining discipline, was there anything you believe you would not have gained on your own if you had chosen to forgo Otis?

Phoenix Owens:

In addition, I needed to build a foundation of art knowledge. Knowledge is definitely power! At the time, I had an understanding and working knowledge of different types of art styles but I didn’t have the language to understand why they worked. By attending Otis, I was pushed to study art history, fundamentals, and current styles. Not gonna lie, I hated doing all of that homework but I’ve experienced the value of knowledge gained during projects that I’ve worked on. Even though I have graduated, I am an avid learner and I feel once you stop learning you die creatively.

Madison Caprara:

So, you graduated college and landed a full-time gig with PopTV. How did that come about? What kind of work were you doing?

Phoenix Owens:

Wow! You’re really taking me down memory lane with this question. The time of my graduation was very stressful. While I was in college, I was working three on-campus jobs to pay rent and other expenses. Upon graduation, I didn’t have those jobs anymore. To make rent I had to sell some of my possessions. It was a ‘do or move’ situation, meaning if I couldn’t find a job then I would have to move back to Georgia with my family. I decided that my current job was to apply for work every single day, morning to evening. I came upon the PopTV opening while looking on a job board. It was listed as a Motion Designer position.

I applied at 9:00 am and got an immediate response asking for a meeting that same day. Nervously, I took the interview and thinking back on it, I must have looked like a hot mess. I had straight red hair at the time and wore a dress-up shirt and nice slacks to the interview. Never again. So the meeting was with the Creative Services Manager and the On-Air Design Director. Long story short, they hated my portfolio and critiqued the heck out of it. I left the meeting feeling like an amateur and was 100% positive that I wouldn’t get the job. I went back to my apartment, calmed my nerves with my Buddhist practice, and made the decision that I wouldn’t give up. PopTV was where I was meant to be.

Phoenix Owens:

I started studying different broadcast design effects as well as the type of on-air spots PopTV would use. That night I created a 10-second piece that highlighted one of their shows and sent it to the manager and director the next morning with my thank you email. Three hours later I got a call from the manager who offered me a position, but it wasn’t the position I had originally applied for. It was an opportunity to support the Social Media Department.

While working at PopTV, I learned how an in-house design team functions for a network. I tell people I mostly made GIFs and dubbed myself as a GIF Master. I would have to find spots in each episode to GIF out for live-tweeting. At times, the producers would watch the show and give me timecodes to reference or I would watch the episode myself. This is how I became a fan of Schitt’s Creek. I had to watch the episodes to find moments, naturally, I started liking it. Now, I didn’t only do GIFs (which at times it seemed like I did) but I also got to create other content for social media, like tune-in cards and video memes. Towards the end of my time at PopTV, I became the go-to person for on-air, tune-in messaging. So if you ever watched the station during that time, you saw the graphics I animated telling you what show was coming up next.

Madison Caprara:

Wow, mad props to you for taking that extra initiative and going after what you wanted!

What do you think it is about GIFs that make them such an interesting medium?

Phoenix Owens:

I see them as another language or form of expression. One of my favorite shows is The Office, I especially love seeing so many GIFs made featuring Michael Scott. While I know exactly which episode a Michael Scott GIF comes from, the way it could be used in conversation is an entirely different language. The use of an animated picture takes personal expression to another level of understanding and interpretation when discussing dialogues, plots, and themes. I find them quite fun and enjoy seeing the ones I created out in the wild.

Madison Caprara:

Even more importantly, is it pronounced ‘JIF’ or ‘GIF’?

Phoenix Owens:

JIF is a peanut butter brand that can be bought at your local grocery store. It makes a great snack (pro tip) when working late nights on a project or playing video games. So from this GIF Master, it is pronounced ‘GIF’!

Madison Caprara:

You’ve heard it here from the GIF Master himself. Thank you for settling that debate.

You have some pretty top-notch projects within your portfolio. I know you spoke a little on it before, but I’m definitely fangirling over the Schitt’s Creek work. What has been your favorite project to date?

Phoenix Owens:

Not listed on my portfolio site, but my favorite project is a Juneteenth one that I worked on with Creative Mammals. The client happened to be with Disney, who is on my dream client list! So when Creative Mammals approached me to jump on board I didn’t hesitate to say yes. I was designing and illustrating a Juneteenth piece during a time when it had just become a national holiday. I am proud to have been part of such a historic work.

Madison Caprara:

What about the most challenging project you’ve taken on?

Phoenix Owens:

Honestly, I can’t pick one project that is challenging. I feel each project that I am tasked to do poses its own individual challenges. It isn’t so much about knowing how to do something as it is about me facing my inner doubt. My Imposter Syndrome that surfaces every time I start working. Thoughts of: “They made a mistake by hiring me” or “I’m not qualified to be in this position” race around my mind and are quite frustrating. I keep this Buddhist quote close to my heart “Become the master of your mind rather than let your mind master you.” I’m learning to trust myself and my abilities more as I continue to grow as an artist. There is always a solution to any art project.

Madison Caprara:

I have yet to meet a single person, creative or not, who hasn’t experienced Imposter Syndrome to some degree. That in itself is a little comforting. We’re all just out here doing our best.

Now, you’ve pivoted over to freelance work, correct? Have there been any significant hurdles with that career change?

Phoenix Owens:

Becoming a freelancer wasn’t by design. I was working at PopTV when the company became a part of the ViacomCBS merger, and I was one of the people who got laid off in February 2020. I was terrified. In the midst of the layoff, we saw the whole world shut down because of the COVID-pandemic in early March of that year. I was directionless for months as I watched how things were unfolding in the world. Like a lot of people, the unknown was scary for me but I decided to make good use of my time. I started drawing more and taking online classes to expand my knowledge. I saw my time spent learning as training for a battle in the future. I did struggle within my studies, as I have a habit of comparing my work to others. I’m sure a lot of people know this is the fastest way to discourage yourself.

The biggest challenge of starting off as a freelancer for me was that I didn’t see people who looked like me in the industry. When I looked at the landscape of the motion design industry, I didn’t see any Black artists. I felt I was at a disadvantage and that I wouldn’t be hired because it isn’t the norm to see a Black person in the motion design industry. With the tragic passing of George Floyd, reigniting the worldwide Black Lives Matter movement, everything changed for me. It was like an emotional alarm clock that woke up the world. Every industry had to look at itself, and what became apparent was the lack of BIPOC. Because of that, I feel a lot of opportunities are now being given to BIPOC. I even had a studio specifically say they were focused on hiring a Black designer because of their lack of diversity. Personally, it felt disingenuous but I guess at least they were being honest. Now that I have been successfully freelancing for one year, I hope I’m known for my hard work and skillset and not as a diversity hire.

Madison Caprara:
It’s sad that it took a tragic, completely avoidable event to channel that lens inward. Something that now needs to be the focus of these companies, is making sure that they’re not just making these diversity hires for the sake of reaching a certain demographic percentage. The solution requires more depth. Companies need to prioritize educating themselves on this country’s long-standing history of systematic racism as a whole. It’s not enough to WANT to create change, you need to truly understand WHY it’s necessary in the first place.

Pivoting back to your freelance experience, I recently read a study on how out of every professional industry, creative freelancers were hit the hardest by this pandemic. I’ve gotten some pretty mixed reviews on that statement. Some are saying that the emphasis on remote work has significantly opened their client pool. Does this ring true for you?

Phoenix Owens:

I started freelancing during the pandemic. Because of that, I don’t have the same experiences as some of my friends who had to go in-person to studios before everything went remote. For me, I am enjoying this remote working life. I feel it is such a great way to work with companies all around the nation and the world. I never would have believed that I could work for a company in New York or Atlanta while still living in Los Angeles.

Madison Caprara:

I am also a member of Team Remote.

Where do you go for inspiration?

Phoenix Owens:

I don’t have a set place for inspiration, but I know that it comes to me once I stop working and step away from the computer. At times, it feels like I'm always attached to my computer screen. Inspiration seems to strike me at weird moments. I don’t tend to look for it. Listening to music or going to music festivals, traveling, going to museums, looking at fashion trends, talking to people, or watching anime or shows are my go-to places. When I allow myself to relax and immerse myself in a moment, I tend to be more open to creative thought. A lot of times it is a question of “What if” and I would take a picture, write down the idea, or do a quick sketch on my phone. By creating a log of my inspiration I have a library to go back to when I need it the most.

Madison Caprara:

Is there anything special we can look forward to seeing from you?

Phoenix Owens:

I have an ongoing list of creative goals. A few things I will do by the end of the year are learning 2D animation, coming up with a new art style, and starting to sell prints and merch of my work. I find that having goals keeps me excited and focused as an artist. I never want to become stagnant as a creator.

Madison Caprara:

Well, I really enjoyed this talk, Phoenix. Wrapping up, do you have a final piece of advice or closing point you’d like to end on?

Phoenix Owens:

I want everyone to know that it’s okay to be scared, but don’t let that fear hinder you from going after what makes you happy. For me, I don’t want to look back and have regrets that I didn’t do something because it wasn’t worth the challenge. Pursuing your passion and doing what you love isn’t easy. It will challenge you mentally and physically, but those pains aren’t forever. When they pass, you’ll look back on them as needed obstacles for growth.

Be sure to do things outside of work. It helps to have a balanced lifestyle to refuel you creatively. Whether it is playing video games or hiking, taking time away from the screen is therapeutic.

Phoenix Owens:

Oh and one last thing, remember to drink water!

Guest User 7/21/21 Guest User 7/21/21

An Open Letter to Dash Bash Attendees

dash: from two to twelve and everything in between.

Let’s roll back the clock to 2015. The Supreme Court affirmed same-sex marriages. We found water on Mars. Australians FINALLY gained access to Netflix. And with all of the other life-changing milestones…dash was born.

It was an unseasonably cool summer evening when dash was first conceived. A few beers led to an honest conversation about motion design and the direction that co-founders, Mack Garrison and Cory Livengood, wanted to take with their lives. They had met five years prior while working at a content marketing agency in Raleigh, NC--an agency they had both just left.

Cory, a Senior Animator, is self-taught and proud of it. His background in stage and film production at North Carolina State University gave him a knack for solving problems. This, along with his easy-going and charismatic personality, makes him a great fit for a motion design company that demands critical thinking and a cool head.

Mack, a Raleigh native, is an optimist and dreamer. He found his creative direction studying at North Carolina State University’s College of Design where he fell in love with animation and motion graphics. As an Animator and Creative Director, he has been exposed to a myriad of concepts—this allows him the ability to clearly articulate direction for a wide range of clients and creatives alike.

The Bash to end all bashes.

So, what were two (recently) freelance creatives to do? Hop on a plane to NYC and attend their very first Motion Design conference, of course! These conferences highlight some of the most unique and interesting work being created within the industry, but it wasn’t the recognizable names or the incredible projects being exhibited that struck them. It was how welcoming everyone was; Big wigs of the creative world chatting it up with two “Average Joes” from Raleigh--lending advice and genuinely wanting to hear their story. The positive experiences really stuck with them. It had made an industry that had once felt so massive a little less intimidating and more familial.

Fast forward again to 2021. Mack and Cory have now surrounded themselves with a team of passionate, hardworking folks who are dedicated to sharing their creations. This October 15th will mark dash’s sixth birthday, and we’ll be celebrating in style at The Dash Bash on September 23rd and 24th. Why a Motion Design festival you may ask? The studio would not have been half as successful without the connections and wisdom gained from hangout opportunities such as F5, OFF fest, and Blend. It’s now our time to give back to the community that has given so much to us.

Offering the festival in an atypical environment is a nod to the city that we love so much. Because let’s not beat around the bush, Raleigh isn’t exactly an LA or a Chicago. What it is, however, is a perfect example of one of the many changes happening within our industry. Modern technology is beginning to break down many of the barriers of the Motion Design world. It’s no longer a requirement to live within those larger markets to make a name for yourself.

*Dylan Carrow, Mack Garrison, Cory Livengood, Meg Snyder, and Meryn Hayes*

Continuing on.

Our intentions for this fall’s festival are not only to take the long-overdue time to reconnect with the community that we have been isolated from this past year and a half but also to raise our group consciousness. We spoke of change. Change is good. Change is growth. Change is constant. This industry has begun to change for the better, but we would be remiss to not acknowledge why it has been made necessary in the first place.

Present-day Motion Design is a multi-directional world of possibilities. Rising students today have the unique opportunity to choose from a number of career paths: 3D motion graphics, publications, UX, branding, sometimes work that completely resists definition or categorization. So yes, this field has an incredibly diverse range of professional foci, but the industry itself has historically (and presently) not been as inclusive when it comes to who is doing the creating. Motion Design as a profession cannot survive if it doesn’t represent the audience it’s meant to target. With Black Lives Matter, the Me Too Movement, and other social justice initiatives, it’s time we self-assess our own industry to acknowledge both the good and bad happenstances. While things are steadily changing, it’s time we recognize that as a whole, Motion Design has been lacking in diversity. Particularly when it comes to leadership positions. As a result, the Dash Bash is prioritizing a diverse range of speakers and topics to be discussed. It’s time we diverge from the traditional vision of what it means to be a leader in creative. It’s time to show exactly where this industry is heading. We’re excited, we hope you all are as well. See ya’ll in September!

-the dashtronauts

Guest User 7/13/21 Guest User 7/13/21

Takeover Tuesday with Matea Lo

Q&A with Matea Lo, a freelance motion designer, illustrator, and AE animator.

Q&A with Matea Lo
Read time: 5min

Madison Caprara:

Hey, Matea! Why don’t you take a second to introduce yourself?

Matea Lo:

Hi! I’m a freelance designer, illustrator, and AE animator. I’ve been working in the Motion Design industry for around five years.

Madison Caprara:
So ‘Meat,’ huh? Where did that nickname stem from if you don’t mind me asking?

Matea Lo:

I was in a group chat and my buddy was struggling to type my name. “Matea” quickly autocorrected to “Meat” and it somehow stuck!

Madison Caprara:

So funny! Love a nickname with a story.

What did your journey into the industry look like?

Matea Lo:

I studied Art and Design in college without an understanding of what motion graphics really was. My school introduced their first mograph course my senior year and I instantly fell in love.

Madison Caprara:

From an outsider’s perspective, how would you describe your style of works?

Matea Lo:

While I try to push myself to explore different styles, I would say my aesthetic is warm and painterly.

Madison Caprara:

“Warm and painterly.” I like that a lot. Perfect description!

Was there anything in particular that really helped to solidify your look?

Matea Lo:

Early on I would spend hours of my day scouring galleries on Vimeo. You naturally pick up on different techniques after consuming a lot of content. I think what solidified my illustration style was creating heaps of artwork. Everything I drew was ugly compared to the artists I admired. It was extremely disheartening, but after a lot of trial and error, atrocious color palettes, and stray photoshop layers, I was finally proud of my work. Ira Glass’s “The Gap” perfectly describes this.

Madison Caprara:

I’m pretty sure I’ve read about this topic. The difference between having good taste and doing good work, yes? A majority of professional creatives get into their industry because they have pretty superior aesthetic taste, but that doesn’t mean they will be great at translating it in the beginning.

So, design, illustration, and animation. Quite the skillset! Which would you say is your favorite medium? Why?

Matea Lo:

This might be cheating, but it’s probably illustrative motion design. I loved puzzles as a kid and I think the process of animating a static scene requires a similar form of problem-solving. Working digitally also gives you a lot of room to experiment and make mistakes.

Madison Caprara:

No wrong answers here!

Digital work is a bit more forgiving, I imagine. I have a friend who is the most amazing painter; Huge, naturalistic-styled works. More than once I’ve seen her punch a hole through her canvas for one faulty brush stroke.

Madison Caprara:

You graduated from Pratt Institute, looking back on your college experience, what was the most important lesson you have learned?

Matea Lo:

I actually got my BFA at the University of Wisconsin- Madison. Because Madison’s Art Department was fine arts-focused, there weren't a lot of resources for design students. It taught me that you have to be a self-starter to thrive in a professional creative space. Later, I sought out a motion graphics certificate from Pratt because I wanted to learn more about animation.

Madison Caprara:

My mistake!

So, you’ve worked with many high-profile clients. In your experience, what is the essential ingredient to a successful ongoing client relationship?

Mateo Lo:

It’s important to be honest in communicating how much time a task will take. Luckily I’ve worked with a lot of great producers to help mediate that process. I think an essential ingredient in any relationship is to be kind and understanding. Everyone on the team is probably stressed. Being someone who is easy to work with really goes a long way!

Madison Caprara:

Who has been your absolute favorite client to work with?

Matea Lo:

My favorite client was Athletes Unlimited. I had the opportunity to lead the design and animation of their Every Moment Counts series. From storyboards to animatic to animation, it was the smoothest process I’ve experienced. It was also really fun to listen to the athletes’ stories and bring them to life.

Madison Caprara:
…and what has been one of your most challenging assignments?

Matea Lo:

One that stands out was a piece called Living Street Art. Our team of three was tasked to animate and composite a 40 foot, 42 screen mural for Google’s Chicago office. It was a huge undertaking but extremely satisfying to experience the final product in person. It taught me a lot about rigging, compositing, and painful render times.

Madison Caprara:

I’m getting very strong Where the Wild Things Are vibes from this one. Big fan!

Now, do you approach creating client work differently than the works you produce for your own personal projects?

Matea Lo:

I try to treat my personal projects like client work. I’ll set a loose timeline for myself and various goals to hit along the way. Having a deadline to post on social media gives me a sense of accountability.

Madison Caprara:

Where do you go for inspiration? I ask this in every Takeover Tuesday interview, it may be getting a little stale, but it’s my favorite. Everyone’s answer varies.

Matea Lo:

Besides the obvious Motionographer, Pinterest, Vimeo, and Instagram, I try to push myself to consume work outside of the industry too. I’ve found inspiration from museums, film, animal videos on Reddit, and random photos I’ve saved to my phone.

Madison Caprara:

What does the rest of 2021 look like for you? It’s hard to believe, but we’re already more than halfway through the year. Is there anything special we can look forward to seeing from you?

Matea Lo:

I’m leaving my staff job of three years to freelance full-time this summer. It’s a daunting transition but I’m excited for new challenges and creative opportunities!

Madison Caprara:

A congratulation is definitely in order! Good luck with your next chapter. That’s so exciting!

Well, we’re reaching the end here, Matea. Do you have any closing advice or statements you would like to share?

Matea Lo:

Yes! I know everyone says it, but create the work you want to do to get the jobs you want! Most are not glamorous but if you can find time to make art you’re passionate about, those opportunities will come along. If you light up when you’re talking about work you’re proud of, that excitement will be contagious.